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Does Eve need new players?

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Author
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#501 - 2014-02-27 10:57:58 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Hanz Riemannder wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
..., but as a new player we have to wait until time permits us to access it.


Rubbish. Complete and utter crap in a box.

But I agree on one thing. Yes it does look like that in the beginning. Everything in New Eden screams murder and probable death TO you as the new guy on the block. How you choose to deal with this impression however, says everything about you as a player / gamer / person.

If you want to sound like Calimero, then go right ahead.

Link
"In the Netherlands and Belgium, the term "Calimero complex" is used to denote someone who thinks the world is against them because they are an underdog; often the character's lines from the show are cited, "They are big and I is [sic] small and that is not fair, oh no!" (translated back from the Dutch, with intentional error)."

Yes you have to wait for your SP to catch up. Why wouldn't you have to wait? The dude that is kicking your a** had to wait for them as well x number of years ago. Why would new people be given more / better SP when they start? Are we better than the veteran players? Did we do anything special to deserve extra SP to compete?

If you weren't in a huge FW corp and if I had the ISK for solo-wardeccing people, I'd wardec your Calimero attitude into the ground. Just to show you what we poor new players can do.

If your mouse pointer is now hoovering over the post button, stop and read the above bold text again! And again. And again. Stop victimizing every new player. It's pathetic.


NVM, I don't feel like wasting my time with another person who demonstrates all he wants to do is insult me.


This is not an Eve player. Cry

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Hanz Riemannder
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#502 - 2014-02-27 11:03:56 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
NVM, I don't feel like wasting my time with another person who demonstrates all he wants to do is insult me.


Apologies, not intended as an insult.
So ... my new friend. Are you ever planning on leaving that boring FW corporation? And say euhm ... maybe join a little indy mining / missioning corporation? You know, look for your path in the big big world out there? Build the stars of tomorrow?

/innocent look
/smile
/evillaugh
/petcat
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#503 - 2014-02-27 11:07:58 UTC
Hanz Riemannder wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
NVM, I don't feel like wasting my time with another person who demonstrates all he wants to do is insult me.


Apologies, not intended as an insult.
So ... my new friend. Are you ever planning on leaving that boring FW corporation? And say euhm ... maybe join a little indy mining / missioning corporation? You know, look for your path in the big big world out there? Build the stars of tomorrow?

/innocent look
/smile
/evillaugh
/petcat


Look at the people who play this game.

Do you think your wanting to kill me/grief me bothers me?

Honestly, do you think so highly of your self that I would care if ANOTHER person wants to try and interfere with how I wish to play the game?

Look around us. There's already a line. Any action I take in this game, just by being in the game, there is already a long line of people hoping that some day I could be someone they may have an impact on.

I'll do whatever I feel like doing, whenever I feel like doing it. You're more than welcome to do what you would like to do as well.

That's the beauty of this game, is it not? The ability to choose.

Make your choices
Hanz Riemannder
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#504 - 2014-02-27 11:20:26 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:

Look at the people who play this game.

Do you think your wanting to kill me/grief me bothers me?

Honestly, do you think so highly of your self that I would care if ANOTHER person wants to try and interfere with how I wish to play the game?

Look around us. There's already a line. Any action I take in this game, just by being in the game, there is already a long line of people hoping that some day I could be someone they may have an impact on.

I'll do whatever I feel like doing, whenever I feel like doing it. You're more than welcome to do what you would like to do as well.

That's the beauty of this game, is it not? The ability to choose.

Make your choices


Well, the last part of what you said indicates you are finally getting some part of the concept.

As for the rest my little Calimero friend, I couldn't care less ... .
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#505 - 2014-02-27 11:40:05 UTC
Hanz Riemannder wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:

Look at the people who play this game.

Do you think your wanting to kill me/grief me bothers me?

Honestly, do you think so highly of your self that I would care if ANOTHER person wants to try and interfere with how I wish to play the game?

Look around us. There's already a line. Any action I take in this game, just by being in the game, there is already a long line of people hoping that some day I could be someone they may have an impact on.

I'll do whatever I feel like doing, whenever I feel like doing it. You're more than welcome to do what you would like to do as well.

That's the beauty of this game, is it not? The ability to choose.

Make your choices


Well, the last part of what you said indicates you are finally getting some part of the concept.

As for the rest my little Calimero friend, I couldn't care less ... .


You're a liar. You could care less.

Here's why:

You could not care to the point of not even responding.

As is, you cared enough to respond.

Karon Grandolf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#506 - 2014-02-27 12:40:20 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:

This is not an Eve player. Cry


They are both EVE players, but one of them wants to be the only one.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#507 - 2014-02-27 12:51:23 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
You're a liar. You could care less.

Here's why:

You could not care to the point of not even responding.

As is, you cared enough to respond.
Just because you make a fallacy of composition doesn't mean he's a liar. It just means you're bing abusive.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#508 - 2014-02-27 13:12:49 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
You're a liar. You could care less.

Here's why:

You could not care to the point of not even responding.

As is, you cared enough to respond.
Just because you make a fallacy of composition doesn't mean he's a liar. It just means you're bing abusive.

I couldn't care less about what you say.
Oliver Wendel Jones
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#509 - 2014-02-27 13:13:20 UTC
OFFS, why do you people keep responding to him? It's the same stuff over and over. Actually, most of the stuff here is... Meh, later.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#510 - 2014-02-27 13:14:26 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
OFFS, why do you people keep responding to him? It's the same stuff over and over. Actually, most of the stuff here is... Meh, later.


Because we want him to keep posting. Twisted

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#511 - 2014-02-27 13:18:45 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
I couldn't care less about what you say.
…and yet you answered. According to you, it means you care a whole lot. So which one is it?
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#512 - 2014-02-27 13:26:54 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
I couldn't care less about what you say.
…and yet you answered. According to you, it means you care a whole lot. So which one is it?


You're so easy. You pick and choose when the exact same phrase has validity based on the person saying it.

I don't really feel that way. I obviously do care which is evidenced by my responding.

yet when I infer that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole, you'll try to spin it the opposite way to paint me as wrong.

You're so biased towards me. I don't know why I'm speaking with you when it's evidenced by you that your issue is with me, and not with what I am saying.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#513 - 2014-02-27 13:34:41 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
You're so easy. You pick and choose when the exact same phrase has validity based on the person saying it.
You're confusing me with you. You're the one who's going back and forth on this one, and I'm simply asking you which one it is: do you or do you not care?

Quote:
I obviously do care which is evidenced by my responding.
So why did you say that you didn't?

Quote:
You're so biased towards me. I don't know why I'm speaking with you when it's evidenced by you that your issue is with me, and not with what I am saying.
See, there's that prejudice again…
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#514 - 2014-02-27 13:35:07 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
I couldn't care less about what you say.
…and yet you answered. According to you, it means you care a whole lot. So which one is it?


You're so easy. You pick and choose when the exact same phrase has validity based on the person saying it.

I don't really feel that way. I obviously do care which is evidenced by my responding.

yet when I infer that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole, you'll try to spin it the opposite way to paint me as wrong.

You're so biased towards me. I don't know why I'm speaking with you when it's evidenced by you that your issue is with me, and not with what I am saying.


You choose to say what you are saying and I am making a judgement of your character based on those choices.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#515 - 2014-02-27 13:43:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
You're so easy. You pick and choose when the exact same phrase has validity based on the person saying it.
You're confusing me with you. You're the one who's going back and forth on this one, and I'm simply asking you which one it is: do you or do you not care?

Quote:
I obviously do care which is evidenced by my responding.
So why did you say that you didn't?

Quote:
You're so biased towards me. I don't know why I'm speaking with you when it's evidenced by you that your issue is with me, and not with what I am saying.
See, there's that prejudice again…


I am kind of disturbed that with the amount of times you've used the word, you keep demonstrating, showing evidence, that you do not understand what it means.
Karon Grandolf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#516 - 2014-02-27 13:46:21 UTC
CCP Manifest wrote:
We are getting lots of new players and lots of returning players (especially since B-R5RB) and continue our upward trend in subscribers we've had for 11 years.


Are you getting new players or new accounts? I suspect that you have gained an increase in accounts, while the number of actual players has not increased at the same rate. In other words, more players now has two or more active accounts.

Has the average subscription time increased or decreased over the years? Do the new players stay, or do they leave earlier than they did before? How is the subscription time distributed?

Has the game hours spend during high sec wars increased since you changed the maximum number of concurrent war decs? How many players has war decced how many other players per week, and how has this ratio changed through the years?

Does high sec war influence the average subscription time of the accounts influenced by this game mechanic?


This thread and many others has very good advice when it comes to high sec war and how to adapt to them. Eran Mintor gave some good advice earlier, thanks for that, and Tippia is always there with excellent advice. Divine Entervention I'm just ignoring on purpose.

It is quite possible to adapt to a high sec war and even have some fun if the deccers are not too risk adverse and boring. It is however also indicative of the radical different environment a high sec war offers to the player. It is because it differs significantly from the high sec peace time, that the advice is needed and often repeated.

Let's be honest, a war can be extremely boring as it limits what you can do safely, and often times involves doing absolutely nothing. And that includes following the advice in this thread. The war environment is a lot of waiting and nothing, and then action in tiny explosive packets. The high sec industrial environment is completely different, with steady progression, the slow work of mining lasers, or the meticulous planning of manufacture. War is explosive, peace glacial.

As I said earlier, EVE was great cause it had such great balance between these kinds of game machanics, regardles of mindset there was something fun and rewarding to do.

Maybe we should have a war dec mechanic that can prohibit the war deccers from using their weapons for a week, and see how they like being denied their favorite game mechanics.


Could it be that the excellent advisors never really spend time or had interest in the cooporative side of high sec PVE side of the game? It will often be stated that EVE is a brutal and unfriendly place, where everyone is out to get everyone else. The high sec PVE, industrial corp is a very different place though. It is a place of cooporation and oftentimes altruism. I suspect that cooporation is equally present in the communities of griefers corps and pirates as well. In some ways it is the balance between these forces played out in EVE that presents such an attraction to me. Once again, balance is the key though.

The advice given on how to adapt to war is good. Yes, you can have good fun fighting a war. The problem is not so much the war in itself, but how much of a players game time will be devoted to this, compared to what the player wants to achieve in the game. EVE has one of, if not the best, crafting gameplay in the business. To manufacture in EVE involves handling complexities, and often requires building and using secondary tools like spreadsheets etc. For a tinkerer this is an amazing part of the game. It's even better when this can be done with other players. High Sec Wars limits the access to this part of the game for the very people that enjoy it the most.

The problem with war against these players is not the war itself, it's the extend of the wars. Every player is different, but there will be a point where there is too much adapting to war, and too little doing the tinkering.

The unlimited number of concurrent wars is a problem for several reasons. They do cost the agressor iskies to maintain. That just means that the wealthy is able to dictate the gaming environment for more players than the unwealthy. If the number of wars is limited, this influence is limited as well. Hopefully a limit to how many corps, or alternatively players can be war decced in high sec at the same time, would result in less undeserving agressions, and relatively more meaningful wars.

It is said that your actions in EVE should have consequences, but too often wars come not as a consequence of anything other than simply existing, and rarely do the war deccers recieve any consequences for the agression themselves.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#517 - 2014-02-27 13:46:54 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
I couldn't care less about what you say.
…and yet you answered. According to you, it means you care a whole lot. So which one is it?


You're so easy. You pick and choose when the exact same phrase has validity based on the person saying it.

I don't really feel that way. I obviously do care which is evidenced by my responding.

yet when I infer that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole, you'll try to spin it the opposite way to paint me as wrong.

You're so biased towards me. I don't know why I'm speaking with you when it's evidenced by you that your issue is with me, and not with what I am saying.


You choose to say what you are saying and I am making a judgement of your character based on those choices.


You are allowed to. That's kind of the great thing about this all, is we're all allowed our own opinions. We get to bring them up to others, talk about them. It's really cool. I enjoy it.

As long as you do not use your opinion as a basis to prevent me from living my life how I see fit, then we will have no problem with each other. I will do the same for you, for everyone.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#518 - 2014-02-27 14:04:30 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
I am kind of disturbed
Obviously.

You didn't answer the question: why did you lie? Why did you say that you didn't care, and then you said that you did?
Why do you make such prejudiced claims about me?

Quote:
As long as you do not use your opinion as a basis to prevent me from living my life how I see fit,
That's funny, seeing as how you're doing exactly that in the other threads.
Oliver Wendel Jones
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#519 - 2014-02-27 15:28:44 UTC
Karon Grandolf wrote:
CCP Manifest wrote:
We are getting lots of new players and lots of returning players (especially since B-R5RB) and continue our upward trend in subscribers we've had for 11 years.


.....[

Let's be honest, a war can be extremely boring as it limits what you can do safely, and often times involves doing absolutely nothing. And that includes following the advice in this thread. The war environment is a lot of waiting and nothing, and then action in tiny explosive packets. The high sec industrial environment is completely different, with steady progression, the slow work of mining lasers, or the meticulous planning of manufacture. War is explosive, peace glacial.

As I said earlier, EVE was great cause it had such great balance between these kinds of game machanics, regardles of mindset there was something fun and rewarding to do.

Maybe we should have a war dec mechanic that can prohibit the war deccers from using their weapons for a week, and see how they like being denied their favorite game mechanics.


Could it be that the excellent advisors never really spend time or had interest in the cooporative side of high sec PVE side of the game? It will often be stated that EVE is a brutal and unfriendly place, where everyone is out to get everyone else. The high sec PVE, industrial corp is a very different place though. It is a place of cooporation and oftentimes altruism. I suspect that cooporation is equally present in the communities of griefers corps and pirates as well. In some ways it is the balance between these forces played out in EVE that presents such an attraction to me. Once again, balance is the key though.

The advice given on how to adapt to war is good. Yes, you can have good fun fighting a war. The problem is not so much the war in itself, but how much of a players game time will be devoted to this, compared to what the player wants to achieve in the game. EVE has one of, if not the best, crafting gameplay in the business. To manufacture in EVE involves handling complexities, and often requires building and using secondary tools like spreadsheets etc. For a tinkerer this is an amazing part of the game. It's even better when this can be done with other players. High Sec Wars limits the access to this part of the game for the very people that enjoy it the most.

The problem with war against these players is not the war itself, it's the extend of the wars. Every player is different, but there will be a point where there is too much adapting to war, and too little doing the tinkering.

The unlimited number of concurrent wars is a problem for several reasons. They do cost the agressor iskies to maintain. That just means that the wealthy is able to dictate the gaming environment for more players than the unwealthy. If the number of wars is limited, this influence is limited as well. Hopefully a limit to how many corps, or alternatively players can be war decced in high sec at the same time, would result in less undeserving agressions, and relatively more meaningful wars.

It is said that your actions in EVE should have consequences, but too often wars come not as a consequence of anything other than simply existing, and rarely do the war deccers recieve any consequences for the agression themselves.


Karon, you should be a diplomat. Very well worded and reasoned.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#520 - 2014-02-27 15:49:40 UTC
Karon Grandolf wrote:


The unlimited number of concurrent wars is a problem for several reasons. They do cost the agressor iskies to maintain. That just means that the wealthy is able to dictate the gaming environment for more players than the unwealthy.


Which means that if you don't like it, become wealthy or find more interesting ways to fight back or evade.

The problem isn't the ability to use wealth to influence the game and the environment of others, that's what a game is about (you better believe that the guy with the big stack of chips in a poker game is using that stack to 'bully' the player with fewer chips in to taking risks that can be beneficial to the big stack guy).

The real problem (in game as is in real life) is that rather than fighting back or being creative, the 'little guy' tries to enlist the help of the 'authority', 'powers that be', 'government' (CCP) to changes the very field everyone is playing on to gain an advantage.

if ccp changes the way war decs or other aggressive actions (like bumping or whatever) works, people will just find a new way to agress. If those being aggressed learn to fight back (so to speak , it need not involve shooting) they'd end their own troubles by being the hard target the war deccers/griefers/gankers/bumpers don't want to screw with.