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Wake Limiter T3 subsystems
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Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#1 - 2011-11-28 12:54:00 UTC
The proteus and legion both have a propulsion sub called a wake limiter. The stated effect of this sub is to reduce your MWD signature radius bloom (which should make your ship a bit harder to hit)

The problem lies with the level of the bonus which is currently 5% per level. Wtih a MWD running your sig radius in the t3 is about 1000. An abaddon has a sig radius of about 500 for comparison. Obviously this makes you easy to hit. Now apply the subsystem bonus at lv5 and you get a sig radius of about 750 for your super-slimline T3 ship. Still massively bigger than an abaddon and no less difficult to hit ??!! Shocked

In what way does this 5% level of bonus ever qualify as useful? It's not even as if the sub offers extra value in any other way compared to the other propulsion subs either. To be effective it would have to be pitched at about 12-15% per level to be in any way sensible and get your sig radius back below a giant flying brick. A drop of sig radius from huge to still-huge is pointless. Just another one to be added to the papercuts list please. What?
Mona X
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-11-28 13:54:31 UTC
Nikuno wrote:

The problem lies with the level of the bonus which is currently 5% per level. Wtih a MWD running your sig radius in the t3 is about 1000. An abaddon has a sig radius of about 500 for comparison. Obviously this makes you easy to hit. Now apply the subsystem bonus at lv5 and you get a sig radius of about 750 for your super-slimline T3 ship. Still massively bigger than an abaddon and no less difficult to hit ??!! Shocked


Exept you're now movimg 1100m/s, while Abaddon 100.

I need new signature.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-11-28 14:33:15 UTC
Mona X wrote:
Nikuno wrote:

The problem lies with the level of the bonus which is currently 5% per level. Wtih a MWD running your sig radius in the t3 is about 1000. An abaddon has a sig radius of about 500 for comparison. Obviously this makes you easy to hit. Now apply the subsystem bonus at lv5 and you get a sig radius of about 750 for your super-slimline T3 ship. Still massively bigger than an abaddon and no less difficult to hit ??!! Shocked


Exept you're now movimg 1100m/s, while Abaddon 100.


I think the OP is suggesting that the bonus as is makes no real difference. A lot of the T3 subsystems need looking at, this subsystem and the Gravitational capacitor sub are under used.

I do not believe buffing this bonus would be overpowered it is already the slowest subsystem.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-11-28 15:48:12 UTC
Alticus C Bear wrote:
Mona X wrote:
Nikuno wrote:

The problem lies with the level of the bonus which is currently 5% per level. Wtih a MWD running your sig radius in the t3 is about 1000. An abaddon has a sig radius of about 500 for comparison. Obviously this makes you easy to hit. Now apply the subsystem bonus at lv5 and you get a sig radius of about 750 for your super-slimline T3 ship. Still massively bigger than an abaddon and no less difficult to hit ??!! Shocked


Exept you're now movimg 1100m/s, while Abaddon 100.


I think the OP is suggesting that the bonus as is makes no real difference. A lot of the T3 subsystems need looking at, this subsystem and the Gravitational capacitor sub are under used.

I do not believe buffing this bonus would be overpowered it is already the slowest subsystem.



well yeah. However, it shares the same speed with the IN sub (which is also less agile than the wake limiter).

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Goose99
#5 - 2011-11-28 15:51:09 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Alticus C Bear wrote:
Mona X wrote:
Nikuno wrote:

The problem lies with the level of the bonus which is currently 5% per level. Wtih a MWD running your sig radius in the t3 is about 1000. An abaddon has a sig radius of about 500 for comparison. Obviously this makes you easy to hit. Now apply the subsystem bonus at lv5 and you get a sig radius of about 750 for your super-slimline T3 ship. Still massively bigger than an abaddon and no less difficult to hit ??!! Shocked


Exept you're now movimg 1100m/s, while Abaddon 100.


I think the OP is suggesting that the bonus as is makes no real difference. A lot of the T3 subsystems need looking at, this subsystem and the Gravitational capacitor sub are under used.

I do not believe buffing this bonus would be overpowered it is already the slowest subsystem.



well yeah. However, it shares the same speed with the IN sub (which is also less agile than the wake limiter).


The interdiction nullifier gives you bubble immunity? Are you suggesting a comparison in usefulness?Lol
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-11-28 16:04:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
5% radius reduction is completely useless:

Double web+scram - ho w8 the guys has 1000m sign radius instead of 185 = useless

Adds nothing interesting considering those huge drawbacks related to sign bloom = useless

Conclusion: Useless Sub

Improvement: give it 20% reduction sign bloom per level and 15% chance to resist scram (but not disrupt) : the ship wouldn't be able to warp out but MWD would not be shut down

After all those are supposed to be T3's, high end tech, so this should be possible and make those subs some option to think about
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-11-28 16:48:22 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
5% radius reduction is completely useless:

Double web+scram - ho w8 the guys has 1000m sign radius instead of 185 = useless

Adds nothing interesting considering those huge drawbacks related to sign bloom = useless

Conclusion: Useless Sub

Improvement: give it 20% reduction sign bloom per level and 15% chance to resist scram (but not disrupt) : the ship wouldn't be able to warp out but MWD would not be shut down

After all those are supposed to be T3's, high end tech, so this should be possible and make those subs some option to think about


No. No (more) chance based mechanics. They only cause problems.
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#8 - 2011-11-28 17:04:10 UTC
Alticus C Bear wrote:
Mona X wrote:
Nikuno wrote:

The problem lies with the level of the bonus which is currently 5% per level. Wtih a MWD running your sig radius in the t3 is about 1000. An abaddon has a sig radius of about 500 for comparison. Obviously this makes you easy to hit. Now apply the subsystem bonus at lv5 and you get a sig radius of about 750 for your super-slimline T3 ship. Still massively bigger than an abaddon and no less difficult to hit ??!! Shocked


Exept you're now movimg 1100m/s, while Abaddon 100.


I think the OP is suggesting that the bonus as is makes no real difference. A lot of the T3 subsystems need looking at, this subsystem and the Gravitational capacitor sub are under used.

I do not believe buffing this bonus would be overpowered it is already the slowest subsystem.


Indeed, I was referring to the point that a bonus that achieves no measurable benefit is in fact no bonus at all.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-11-28 18:12:51 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Alticus C Bear wrote:
Mona X wrote:
Nikuno wrote:

The problem lies with the level of the bonus which is currently 5% per level. Wtih a MWD running your sig radius in the t3 is about 1000. An abaddon has a sig radius of about 500 for comparison. Obviously this makes you easy to hit. Now apply the subsystem bonus at lv5 and you get a sig radius of about 750 for your super-slimline T3 ship. Still massively bigger than an abaddon and no less difficult to hit ??!! Shocked


Exept you're now movimg 1100m/s, while Abaddon 100.


I think the OP is suggesting that the bonus as is makes no real difference. A lot of the T3 subsystems need looking at, this subsystem and the Gravitational capacitor sub are under used.

I do not believe buffing this bonus would be overpowered it is already the slowest subsystem.



well yeah. However, it shares the same speed with the IN sub (which is also less agile than the wake limiter).


The Interdiction Nullifier just highlights the broken bonuses, it gives an agility bonus but is not more agile, they all need looking at.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-11-29 02:34:06 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
Alticus C Bear wrote:
Mona X wrote:
Nikuno wrote:

The problem lies with the level of the bonus which is currently 5% per level. Wtih a MWD running your sig radius in the t3 is about 1000. An abaddon has a sig radius of about 500 for comparison. Obviously this makes you easy to hit. Now apply the subsystem bonus at lv5 and you get a sig radius of about 750 for your super-slimline T3 ship. Still massively bigger than an abaddon and no less difficult to hit ??!! Shocked


Exept you're now movimg 1100m/s, while Abaddon 100.


I think the OP is suggesting that the bonus as is makes no real difference. A lot of the T3 subsystems need looking at, this subsystem and the Gravitational capacitor sub are under used.

I do not believe buffing this bonus would be overpowered it is already the slowest subsystem.



well yeah. However, it shares the same speed with the IN sub (which is also less agile than the wake limiter).


The interdiction nullifier gives you bubble immunity? Are you suggesting a comparison in usefulness?Lol


besides the nullification ability, the sub is actually quite poor.
but no, not suggesting a comparison in usefulness. more like a stat-per-stat comparison.

that said, yes the wake limiter could use a fix yes, and no the nullifier doesn't need anything more.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-11-29 02:50:32 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
5% radius reduction is completely useless:

Double web+scram - ho w8 the guys has 1000m sign radius instead of 185 = useless


Yeah, but double web + scram is a pretty big IF.

For example

2k dps - ho w8 your entire tank is useless!

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-11-29 03:13:10 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
5% radius reduction is completely useless:

Double web+scram - ho w8 the guys has 1000m sign radius instead of 185 = useless



Double webs + scram and all propulsion subs are useless, bad argument.
Goose99
#13 - 2011-11-29 04:34:05 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
5% radius reduction is completely useless:

Double web+scram - ho w8 the guys has 1000m sign radius instead of 185 = useless



Double webs + scram and all propulsion subs are useless, bad argument.


100 mn ab, glide your way to gtfo.Cool
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#14 - 2011-11-30 14:40:08 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
5% radius reduction is completely useless:

Double web+scram - ho w8 the guys has 1000m sign radius instead of 185 = useless



Double webs + scram and all propulsion subs are useless, bad argument.


100 mn ab, glide your way to gtfo.Cool


Only works for the Tengu and this is about a useless bonus on a subsystem for Legion and Proteus so your point is moot.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-11-30 14:49:42 UTC
Nikuno wrote:
Only works for the Tengu and this is about a useless bonus on a subsystem for Legion and Proteus so your point is moot.


No, If you still fit your T3 other than Tengu with 10MN AB or 10MN MWD then you should realise it's an old setup good for loss mails.

Tell that to 100MN AB Legions, Proteus, Lokis pilots they'll have a little smile on their face.