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Which POS mechanic would you like to see fixed first?
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Lyelle Wolf
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-02-26 03:29:09 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Marsan wrote:
It's never going to happen. CCP has basically said they ain't fixing the POS as:

- It old, crufty, and none of their programmers think it can be fixed without a complete rewrite.
- They aren't going to spend a release or 2 on POSes
- The POS pain is felt by only a small portion of the community.

What they are planning on doing is gradually replacing POS with deployables.


I'm just going to say this, it can and will happen, if enough players do a huge hoop-la over it, and demand that we want it fixed and fixed now. If the voice of players is actually not the minority then it will change CCP's directions. Also, if its holding back the game, they will fix it as well.

However, if this thread fizzles and dies like the WiS' threads do, then it means there is not enough players that care about this issue for them to fix it.

Yes we as customers have no say in how CCP utilizes their resources, however, you get enough angry people demanding a company fixes stuff, then company will tend to listen. When players rally together for a common goal of fixing something that is and has been broken, and if enough people are vocal, they will fix it.



You'd have to get a pretty large group of people to stand up for this. Most people aren't willing to come in here to voice their opinion. I mean, there's really only a small group of people who will actually come here to support things. The rest live up in the north and do whatever their masters tell them too. Such as "like this story that I made so I can win a free trip to CCP." Yea, that wasn't rigged at all.

//LW
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#42 - 2014-02-26 03:29:26 UTC
I want my pos to stop trying to murder me after I bomb it.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#43 - 2014-02-26 03:48:24 UTC
Lyelle Wolf wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Marsan wrote:
It's never going to happen. CCP has basically said they ain't fixing the POS as:

- It old, crufty, and none of their programmers think it can be fixed without a complete rewrite.
- They aren't going to spend a release or 2 on POSes
- The POS pain is felt by only a small portion of the community.

What they are planning on doing is gradually replacing POS with deployables.


I'm just going to say this, it can and will happen, if enough players do a huge hoop-la over it, and demand that we want it fixed and fixed now. If the voice of players is actually not the minority then it will change CCP's directions. Also, if its holding back the game, they will fix it as well.

However, if this thread fizzles and dies like the WiS' threads do, then it means there is not enough players that care about this issue for them to fix it.

Yes we as customers have no say in how CCP utilizes their resources, however, you get enough angry people demanding a company fixes stuff, then company will tend to listen. When players rally together for a common goal of fixing something that is and has been broken, and if enough people are vocal, they will fix it.



You'd have to get a pretty large group of people to stand up for this. Most people aren't willing to come in here to voice their opinion. I mean, there's really only a small group of people who will actually come here to support things. The rest live up in the north and do whatever their masters tell them too. Such as "like this story that I made so I can win a free trip to CCP." Yea, that wasn't rigged at all.

//LW


Ugh gettign off topic.. but you mean the First true story that was chosen?

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Fish Hunter
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-02-26 08:06:24 UTC
Please make a central hangar and science tab that works like a station. Change the pos structures to modify hangar space, industry lines, etc . Everything accessible from the one hangar. No more different manufacture structures. Just add structures to increase slots.
Oh and the alliance access issues
Lyelle Wolf
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-02-26 08:50:13 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Lyelle Wolf wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Marsan wrote:
It's never going to happen. CCP has basically said they ain't fixing the POS as:

- It old, crufty, and none of their programmers think it can be fixed without a complete rewrite.
- They aren't going to spend a release or 2 on POSes
- The POS pain is felt by only a small portion of the community.

What they are planning on doing is gradually replacing POS with deployables.


I'm just going to say this, it can and will happen, if enough players do a huge hoop-la over it, and demand that we want it fixed and fixed now. If the voice of players is actually not the minority then it will change CCP's directions. Also, if its holding back the game, they will fix it as well.

However, if this thread fizzles and dies like the WiS' threads do, then it means there is not enough players that care about this issue for them to fix it.

Yes we as customers have no say in how CCP utilizes their resources, however, you get enough angry people demanding a company fixes stuff, then company will tend to listen. When players rally together for a common goal of fixing something that is and has been broken, and if enough people are vocal, they will fix it.



You'd have to get a pretty large group of people to stand up for this. Most people aren't willing to come in here to voice their opinion. I mean, there's really only a small group of people who will actually come here to support things. The rest live up in the north and do whatever their masters tell them too. Such as "like this story that I made so I can win a free trip to CCP." Yea, that wasn't rigged at all.

//LW


Ugh gettign off topic.. but you mean the First true story that was chosen?


Yea, but back on topic.

Fully support revamp. I wouldn't mind it if they took two "expansions" to rework POS mechanics. The expansions are usually a big compilation of reworks with one or two new things.

//LW
Oxide Ammar
#46 - 2014-02-26 09:20:25 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
2) Anchoring and setting up a tower - life sucking and a pain in the nuts to boot, give me a fitting screen like my ship ok? Let me set it all up and then go actually play eve instead of nannying this stupid thing all damn day.


This is pretty good damn idea, I have never thought of it before. You plan what are the modules and structures will be anchored and onlined in fitting window like a ship then you dump all this in one tower and it should anchor itself with its arrays automatically.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Marsan
#47 - 2014-02-26 11:47:26 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Marsan wrote:
It's never going to happen. CCP has basically said they ain't fixing the POS as:

- It old, crufty, and none of their programmers think it can be fixed without a complete rewrite.
- They aren't going to spend a release or 2 on POSes
- The POS pain is felt by only a small portion of the community.

What they are planning on doing is gradually replacing POS with deployables.


I'm just going to say this, it can and will happen, if enough players do a huge hoop-la over it, and demand that we want it fixed and fixed now. If the voice of players is actually not the minority then it will change CCP's directions. Also, if its holding back the game, they will fix it as well.

However, if this thread fizzles and dies like the WiS' threads do, then it means there is not enough players that care about this issue for them to fix it.

Yes we as customers have no say in how CCP utilizes their resources, however, you get enough angry people demanding a company fixes stuff, then company will tend to listen. When players rally together for a common goal of fixing something that is and has been broken, and if enough people are vocal, they will fix it.


You go on thinking that, but Eve players already got up in arms about it.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194625

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2014-02-26 12:27:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronny Hugo
Use the new mobile deployable code for the towers.
Moon resources should act finite. So the more you mine the less yield you get per m3 ore (unless you upgrade, if anyone misses this part they can't read).
Do this by having the mining tower have a mining equipment level that you must upgrade with ore. So you start out with mining equipment size 1 and then mine the first cheap moongoo, then as yields go down you upgrade to size 2 that mines faster so even though the yield is lower you can keep your yield up (even higher and higher on each level if you upgrade early).
It should be better to upgrade size level than to move to an un-mined moon (so that there's unmined moons left for startups, and so its a penalty on your income if your mining tower is destroyed). Once your mining tower is destroyed you must start at level 1 on the next tower.

Sov should have its own military station, that if destroyed drops sov. In this military station the station owner (sov holder) can approve anyone to put up towers (with standings) in that system. You should be able to let for example corp A put up towers in system X, while not giving permission to put up in System Y.
I think there should be two classes of towers, the ones you can have titans in and so forth (enemies can place these anywhere without permission), and the ones purely used for mining moongoo (need permission). You should also be able to put them next to each other (1 tower per moon is a bad limitation).

Also, the visual interface must have more sense. Thousands of the years into the future they have very advanced and easy to use administrative tools.
Black Locust
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2014-02-26 13:29:39 UTC
Not sure if was mentioned yet, so if it was, consider this a +1

A lot of people have mentioned being able to shoot offline towers without the need to wardec etc, I have another thought on this subject. Expanding the new(ish) hacking mini game, to allow you to hack offline towers, if successful you take over ownership of it, so you can un anchor sell / or online it.

Just an idea I thought would be cool
Kaidu Kahn
POT Corp
#50 - 2014-02-26 14:47:11 UTC
- Give missle batteries better damage to make them a usable option.
- Stop letting defenses kill corpmates randomly
- Make the interface for POS module deployment better
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#51 - 2014-02-26 18:03:58 UTC
Black Locust wrote:
Not sure if was mentioned yet, so if it was, consider this a +1

A lot of people have mentioned being able to shoot offline towers without the need to wardec etc, I have another thought on this subject. Expanding the new(ish) hacking mini game, to allow you to hack offline towers, if successful you take over ownership of it, so you can un anchor sell / or online it.

Just an idea I thought would be cool

I don't buy this hacking thing yet.

Currently a POS removal takes quite some effort in time and dps. While I'm all for improved (or even new) methods of removing them (like not having to wardec someone for a tower, that has been unfueled for a prolonged time), it still should take a considerable effort in time and resources.

So just out of curiosity: For how many hours would you be willing to sit at that POS hacking it and what resources would you spend on this?

Remove standings and insurance.
Jarvin Spoo
Clandestine Management Group
#52 - 2014-02-26 19:34:08 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Black Locust wrote:
Not sure if was mentioned yet, so if it was, consider this a +1

A lot of people have mentioned being able to shoot offline towers without the need to wardec etc, I have another thought on this subject. Expanding the new(ish) hacking mini game, to allow you to hack offline towers, if successful you take over ownership of it, so you can un anchor sell / or online it.

Just an idea I thought would be cool

I don't buy this hacking thing yet.

Currently a POS removal takes quite some effort in time and dps. While I'm all for improved (or even new) methods of removing them (like not having to wardec someone for a tower, that has been unfueled for a prolonged time), it still should take a considerable effort in time and resources.

So just out of curiosity: For how many hours would you be willing to sit at that POS hacking it and what resources would you spend on this?


But why should it take a considerable effort in time and resources? This is an abandoned player owned structure in space. If allowed to hack ......the awesome cross-over from standard PVE Exploration to player emergent content has been made in this area. Isn't that something CCP has been aiming for for some time? Sounds awesome. I am imagining whole corps who travel through WH space to find these derelict structures to explore and gain the riches inside. And then....those who lay in wait to take it from them! :)
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#53 - 2014-02-26 19:38:40 UTC
Jarvin Spoo wrote:
But why should it take a considerable effort in time and resources? This is an abandoned player owned structure in space.


If it's not worth a few hours of your time, it's really not worth removing the POS. Organising a fleet and issuing a wardec is really not a significant hurdle when you are about to engage in an activity that requires significant long term logistical support.

This is just balancing risk/reward.

Wardec the tower, start shooting it. Take the risk, reap the reward.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#54 - 2014-02-26 23:48:08 UTC
Jarvin Spoo wrote:
But why should it take a considerable effort in time and resources? This is an abandoned player owned structure in space. If allowed to hack ......the awesome cross-over from standard PVE Exploration to player emergent content has been made in this area. Isn't that something CCP has been aiming for for some time? Sounds awesome. I am imagining whole corps who travel through WH space to find these derelict structures to explore and gain the riches inside. And then....those who lay in wait to take it from them! :)

Offline towers are not always abandoned.

There should be at least a 24 hour delay to allow the owners to respond, even without a wardec.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#55 - 2014-02-27 01:06:03 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
There should be at least a 24 hour delay to allow the owners to respond, even without a wardec.


Six months, if the "attacker" is scared of a wardec.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Arwen Ariniel
Shaolin Legacy
Preatoriani
#56 - 2014-02-27 11:32:58 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Many POS problems are not POS problems, but rather roles and access rights problems.


* POS still go Skynet on their owners.


This... Evil

And a personal ship hangar array.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#57 - 2014-02-27 17:00:00 UTC
bump needs to be fixed

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Hevymetal
POT Corp
#58 - 2014-02-27 19:56:06 UTC
There has been alot of good suggestions posted in this thread.

Some of the mentioned changes that IMHO would require minimal effort on CCP's part to implement.

1. Missle Batteries - The ROF and damage modifier can easily be revised to bring them more into mainstream useage. Don't really think anyone uses these anymore. It would be great if a simple stat change could make them a viable defense once again.

2. Assmebly arrays - Allow any ship class the same size or smaller then the current array to be built in that array. Make the larger arrays more useable and valuable.

3. Unfueled POS - This is an area of great debate. I do believe most of us can at least agree SOMETHING needs to be done with this. A 30-60 day unfuel auto unanchor timer seems easy enough to do. An open target flag also seems easy enough as well. Whatever decision is reached, hopefully abandoned towers set by corps closed 6 years ago will be addressed.

4. POS aggro mechanics - Review the existing code for errors or changes necessary to prevent Skynet. Not sure what the underlying issue is but reviewing the code sure wouldn't hurt.

5. POS refuel notices - Not much effort to change the emails to say "Size POS located at System XXX Planet XXX Moon XXX has x Hrs of fuel remaining". This will go a long way in helping manage multiple towers.

6. POS killmails - Show what was inside arrays and hangers that were blown up. Make the PVPers happy :)

7. Ship cargohold storage - Allow storage of ships with containers and cargo in their hold in maintenance arrays. Would be a nice feature allowing for more storage for WH dwellers as well as the rest of us.

8. Allow POS transfer of ownership without teardown and resetup - This may be harder then I believe it to be. It would also create a new profession in EVE (POS development) a person or corp could acquire a location, setup according to required specs, fuel it and then transfer it in operational condition to a buyer making a tidy profit.

It seems quite a few changes could be made that would help pacify us for the time being. At least until more effort could be put into them. Simple things would add to the benefit of POS ownership.

Please keep this thread up and going and continue to discuss and comment on this issue and ideas brought up here. Hopefully a DEV will read this thread and maybe, just maybe, comment about them or even better do something that would benefit us all. :)

Thanks for helping to contribute
Hevymetal
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#59 - 2014-02-27 22:17:55 UTC
Of course, we could just get rid of POS altogether.

1) All moon mining could be part of PI,
2) player built stations ("Outposts") are no big deal these days to build and have pretty much been built already anywhere that makes sense,
3) "reactions" for moon materials could be built into a station's industrial slots options,
4), etc., etc.

WH players would find themselves screwed, but then it's time for Outposts, moon mining and so forth in WH's anyway.

Not exactly as simple as it sounds, but it beats the Hell out of replacing it with something else that might need six months of patchs ... so let's just get rid of those ****** ol' POS and their ****** ol' code... and all the "roles" nonsense that goes with it.

Call it an "expansion" or something.

Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
kbroen Xylus
Fixers Corporation
Pillars of Liberty
#60 - 2014-03-21 05:02:15 UTC
I agree with any of the above posts relating to mechanics. However,

SMA's need to be configured to allow different access just like the corp hangar. Thats my number one beef with the system.