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[Rubicon 1.3] T1 Frigate and Cruiser Balance Pass

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Author
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#101 - 2014-02-26 16:59:23 UTC
I'm a little surprised the Rupture isn't getting a balance pass.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#102 - 2014-02-26 17:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Goldensaver wrote:

Good thing to note, Mediums have a signature resolution of 40 technically putting them in the small weapons system class, though it's somewhat odd as they have pretty low application, but rather high damage for a small weapon system

Nope, you're mixing up signature radius and signature resolution. Mediums have a signature radius of 50m, which means they're as hard to hit as a fat frigate (buffer Harpy or something).

They have a signature resolution of 125m which puts them on the same footing as medium guns as far as tracking goes.

The messed up thing is that heavies still have a signature resolution of 125m (cruiser guns), instead of 400m (battleship guns). That, coupled with heavies' tendency to move around and break their own tracking less, makes heavies often hit frigates better than mediums do.

Heavies also have a signature radius of 100m, which is slightly smaller than that of a Stabber.

Signature radius = How "big" your ship/drone is; the bigger it is, the easier it is to hit.
Signature resolution = How "big" your weapon is; the bigger it is, the harder time it has hitting things.
Scan resolution = How fast you target stuff

I hate these names, so easy to confuse.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#103 - 2014-02-26 17:06:23 UTC
Are we going to see these changes on Singularity before they hit TQ?
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#104 - 2014-02-26 17:19:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldensaver
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Goldensaver wrote:

Good thing to note, Mediums have a signature resolution of 40 technically putting them in the small weapons system class, though it's somewhat odd as they have pretty low application, but rather high damage for a small weapon system

Nope, you're mixing up signature radius and signature resolution. Mediums have a signature radius of 50m, which means they're as hard to hit as a fat frigate (buffer Harpy or something).

They have a signature resolution of 125m which puts them on the same footing as medium guns as far as tracking goes.

The messed up thing is that heavies still have a signature resolution of 125m (cruiser guns), instead of 400m (battleship guns). That, coupled with heavies' tendency to move around and break their own tracking less, makes heavies often hit frigates better than mediums do.

Heavies also have a signature radius of 100m, which is slightly smaller than that of a Stabber.

Signature radius = How "big" your ship/drone is; the bigger it is, the easier it is to hit.
Signature resolution = How "big" your weapon is; the bigger it is, the harder time it has hitting things.
Scan resolution = How fast you target stuff

I hate these names, so easy to confuse.

Yeah, it wasn't even a confusion of names. It was me working on memory and remembering incorrectly. I remembered that Heavies were 125m putting them at "medium" size, but I mixed up forgot medium drone signature resolution size. My bad.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Meta Reloaded
#105 - 2014-02-26 17:25:16 UTC
I really like the changes to the Rifter's bonus. This will allow it to be an effective scram range kiter, or even kite to an extent with artillery Big smile . Not sure I understand the meaning behind the Amarr role change, but vOv I'll live.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

sabastyian
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#106 - 2014-02-26 17:28:53 UTC
Nerf the maulus a bit, it can damp any other damp ship permanently due to the fact it has a faster lock rate and nearly identical lock range. A reduction in lock range would put it in more of a skirmish role while leaving the celestis for more of a long ranged dampening boat.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#107 - 2014-02-26 17:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldensaver
Liam Inkuras wrote:
I really like the changes to the Rifter's bonus. This will allow it to be an effective scram range kiter, or even kite to an extent with artillery Big smile . Not sure I understand the meaning behind the Amarr role change, but vOv I'll live.

Less speed and agility loss on heavily plated Amarr ships. It actually lets the Punisher more effectively control range even when fitted with a 400mm plate, despite the lack of a third mid.

Doesn't necessarily make it good, but gives it more of a fighting chance.

Also, in the case of the Inquisitor, it mitigates part of the downsides of plating an Inquisitor compared to shield tanking the shield logi frigs. It brings the speed and agility loss more in line with the downside of increased signature radius.

Same to be said with the cruisers, plating it won't make them quite as substantially slower and less agile than the shield options. The opposite is true with the changes to the Vexor.

I quite like it because the signature radius downside of shield tanking is a far smaller downside than speed and agility loss of armour tanking.

Rigs still need to be looked at though. Trimarks reducing speed is one thing, resist pumps though is a pain in the ass because you can't even fit resist pumps to an active tanker without suffering buffer tank style downsides.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#108 - 2014-02-26 17:35:40 UTC
That Caracal! Can't wait to test!














erm. right.

But yeah, I like the iteration wave.
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2014-02-26 17:42:17 UTC
Any plans to update the Navy variant of the patched (Amarr) cruisers?
jangofett76
Doomheim
#110 - 2014-02-26 17:43:01 UTC
Maybe it's the time to up Tech 2 now, they became so useless for their price
Louis Robichaud
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2014-02-26 17:46:18 UTC
Breacher: perhaps a bonus to missile / rockets reloading speed would be in order (say, 1s/level, at level V your reload time is 5s). This would compensate for faster rof and increase damage flexibility.

Amar speed tweak: I think this should be applied to other hulls, like say the arbitrator.

I blog a bit http://hspew.blogspot.ca

Yankunytjatjara
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2014-02-26 17:46:29 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
RIFTER:
Removed +7.5% Small Projectile Turret tracking bonus
Added +10% Small Projectile Turret falloff bonus
+10 m/s velocity
+0.01 inertia


Why not giving it the same double damage bonus the ruppi has. The ruppi shows that it's not OP, it'd be equivalent to merlin, punisher and incursus dps/tank bonus, and people would still be able to fit a TE gaining a similar falloff bonus... Or to go full dps.

My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#113 - 2014-02-26 17:50:41 UTC
Very nice changes here !

The moa is getting a much needed slight buff to its speed with prop mod on. Imo you could go further without risking to compete with the thorax.

I love what you did with support frigates, sounds awesome :D. However while we are at it, the bantam could use a bigger increase in max speed. Its the one that gets the smallest, and it already has the smallest base speed. With other caldari ships, since some have a more "sniping" pattern I can understand (btw that's why the moa its not satisfying : its slow without range bonuses). But here the bantam have no range bonus at all for reps, and its a tad slow.
About what you did to amarr ships, it sounds nice too, although it might be worrying about their speed without prop mod. Something that happens more than you might think when orbiting at very close range on a pinned target.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#114 - 2014-02-26 17:50:58 UTC
Yankunytjatjara wrote:
it'd be equivalent to merlin, punisher and incursus

Homogeneity is bad, mmkay? Variety is the spice of life.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#115 - 2014-02-26 17:52:49 UTC
Yankunytjatjara wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
RIFTER:
Removed +7.5% Small Projectile Turret tracking bonus
Added +10% Small Projectile Turret falloff bonus
+10 m/s velocity
+0.01 inertia


Why not giving it the same double damage bonus the ruppi has. The ruppi shows that it's not OP, it'd be equivalent to merlin, punisher and incursus dps/tank bonus, and people would still be able to fit a TE gaining a similar falloff bonus... Or to go full dps.


rupture isn't exactly a good example of a ship that isn't awful. same as tempest.
Yankunytjatjara
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2014-02-26 17:54:39 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Yankunytjatjara wrote:
it'd be equivalent to merlin, punisher and incursus

Homogeneity is bad, mmkay? Variety is the spice of life.

Equivalent in power doesn't mean homogeneous... It would be the only double damage bonused frig.

My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors

Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#117 - 2014-02-26 17:54:49 UTC
Yankunytjatjara wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
RIFTER:
Removed +7.5% Small Projectile Turret tracking bonus
Added +10% Small Projectile Turret falloff bonus
+10 m/s velocity
+0.01 inertia


Why not giving it the same double damage bonus the ruppi has. The ruppi shows that it's not OP, it'd be equivalent to merlin, punisher and incursus dps/tank bonus, and people would still be able to fit a TE gaining a similar falloff bonus... Or to go full dps.

You mention the Ruppy in comparison to the Rifter, but the Ruppy has a double damage bonus on its below class level of turrets (4 to most other cruisers' 5 turrets) where as the Rifter has equal guns to other frigates (3 to 3).

Of course, the Rupture isn't as good as the other cruisers either, in my opinion.
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#118 - 2014-02-26 17:56:33 UTC
The Tormentor is probably the best T1 frigate in the game once you're in scram range, for the love of god don't screw with it by doing something stupid like adding missiles
Damhest
Monkey Attack Squad
Goonswarm Federation
#119 - 2014-02-26 18:00:01 UTC
Caracal: Because we can.
This made my day, srsly =)
And the new "amarr armor theme" looks reallyuu interesting, will be worth a try.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#120 - 2014-02-26 18:27:47 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
The Tormentor is probably the best T1 frigate in the game once you're in scram range, for the love of god don't screw with it by doing something stupid like adding missiles


Its not, not even close.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish