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[Rubicon 1.3] Mobile Tractor Unit Meta Types

First post
Author
Kerplakershtat Rova
The Mostly Free People's Republic of Persephone
#21 - 2014-02-26 16:47:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Kerplakershtat Rova
What's the point in the "Packrat" unit? People shoot MTUs to bait you with a suspect timer, not to destroy it, so it's a useless bonus imo. The "Magpie" is clearly harder to scan down and also pulls things in faster and from further away. The 500% increased sensor strength basically means your battleship will be scanned down before the MTU anyways. (Obviously you don't want to be scanned down, and normally the MTU is scanned down long before your ship and screams, "I'm running an L4.")

From what I can gather the Magpie is substantially more useful and the Packrat is just there to fill some weird niche. Either way the standard MTU is going to be useless and only be worth using if you don't have the money for a meta version.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-02-26 17:01:27 UTC
Any chance of one of the shinier ones having a lower volume? My runaround Astero would love you forever (as would the people who gank it Smile )

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Lady Agatha Heterodyne
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#23 - 2014-02-26 17:09:28 UTC
I would love to see some better options for the MTU's.

1. Launch for fleet and/or corp
2. Something like drone aggro selection or preset to tactor all or just full wrecks
3. MTU chaining so several can be used at the same time

Will cargo capacity be impacted by the above changes or will initial item size chang?
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#24 - 2014-02-26 17:32:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Edit: Damit broken forums :( this post can be deleted by moderation, sorry for spam.

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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#25 - 2014-02-26 17:34:21 UTC
Sound fair. Your point is valid about the MTUs overshadowing other ships if they were able to tractor multiple targets at a time, or able to be used in pack.

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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#26 - 2014-02-26 17:41:52 UTC
Alundil wrote:
I think that these are fine changes (disclaimer: I don't use MTUs - reason: faster to salvage sites in a noctis or dedicated T3 salvager).

Making them harder to scan is also fine. I like scanning.

One thing though; I've heard (and seen) the issues with using more than one on the same grid. Namely, the fact that the MTUs may potentially grab the same wreck and then fight over it in some sadly bloodless version of Robot Wars in Space.

For the MTU users out there, I imagine that altering the targeting routine of the MTU to ignore a wreck which is already currently being tractored (either by pilot tractor beam module or another MTU) would be a welcome change.


I have found that if you drop them on opposite sides of a wreck field, which I do by dropping one and then microjumping, they will usually play nice. If you wait long enough, for instance you go and do another mission, you will sometimes see that one of them wins the tug of war and all the wrecks cluster around just one, but not until the last few wrecks.

This is why my Noctis has that one last tractor on it... Sometimes there is that one can being passed back and forth.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#27 - 2014-02-26 17:43:10 UTC
Adding this is good

Adding these to ghost sites is better. MTUs are a lot more popular and disposable than 'Yurts.' Furthermore the bonuses here are way better than say that stupid wetu


Buff wetus. They're basically worse than meta0 depots because of the 50m3 extra volume.

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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#28 - 2014-02-26 17:45:24 UTC
please stop mobile tractors from playing tug-of war, and give their tractors the same issues player owned tractors have.
don't let the magpie be unscannable, or they'll become OP in WH space (even if I AM considering getting one!)
are you sure the magpie still tractors slower than a fully skilled and T2 noctis?

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Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#29 - 2014-02-26 18:15:31 UTC
Oh look new/old structures Blink

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Citizen of Solitude

Reinforced Metal Scrap
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-02-26 18:41:19 UTC
The info windows for the MTUs are missing a compare button.

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#31 - 2014-02-26 20:13:09 UTC
Is there any outside chance of adding an auto-salvage feature to these?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

commander aze
#32 - 2014-02-26 20:54:02 UTC
... confused as to how a tractor can got priority...

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Valterra Craven
#33 - 2014-02-26 21:24:17 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
One more thread for today Smile

Many players have been asking why the MTUs pull the closest wreck, as this behavior essentially prevents effectively using two complementary MTUs side by side. I can see why this would frustrate some players who are trying to maximize the effectiveness of their MTU setup.
We intend the MTUs to be a valuable option for many types of players, but we wanted to make sure that they do not completely overshadow other tractor beam platforms, most notably the Noctis. This is why they are limited to one beam at a time and why their tractor velocity is set lower than that of a Noctis. However if we made it easy to use multiple MTUs in parallel their effectiveness would scale far too well when used in groups, removing any role for other tractor beam solutions. This is why we have no plans to adjust the collection algorithm of the MTUs.



Fozzie, while I appreciate the feedback on not changing this, I would like to propose a compromise. Currently I use both an MTU and noctis side by side. While I agree being able to use more than one MTU side by side might be unbalanced, I still have some minor issues with the current coding. The biggest reason I do this is because the Noctis is really great at salvaging things, whereas the MTU doesnt do that at all. So the reason for my setup is to reduce some of the click fest that looting/salvaging currently entails since eve can't seem to match other modern MMO's with a "loot all button"

I immediately tractor any wreck with loot in it near the MTU, from there the MTU scoops all the loot, removing half the clicks required to clear a pocket. Once all those are complete I scoop the MTU and salvage the remaining wrecks. What would help this process is when in other pockets I have alts fighting and with MTU's deployed as well. I would like to adjust the MTU to tractor all closets wrecks with loot FIRST, then tracker in closest empty wrecks last. That would speed up cleanup times slightly and boost the effectiveness of its intended role (loot cleaner) without making it OP.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#34 - 2014-02-26 21:38:03 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Alundil wrote:
I think that these are fine changes (disclaimer: I don't use MTUs - reason: faster to salvage sites in a noctis or dedicated T3 salvager).

Making them harder to scan is also fine. I like scanning.

One thing though; I've heard (and seen) the issues with using more than one on the same grid. Namely, the fact that the MTUs may potentially grab the same wreck and then fight over it in some sadly bloodless version of Robot Wars in Space.

For the MTU users out there, I imagine that altering the targeting routine of the MTU to ignore a wreck which is already currently being tractored (either by pilot tractor beam module or another MTU) would be a welcome change.


I have found that if you drop them on opposite sides of a wreck field, which I do by dropping one and then microjumping, they will usually play nice. If you wait long enough, for instance you go and do another mission, you will sometimes see that one of them wins the tug of war and all the wrecks cluster around just one, but not until the last few wrecks.

This is why my Noctis has that one last tractor on it... Sometimes there is that one can being passed back and forth.

That's a good suggestion/workaround - as I said i don't use them just something I've heard/seen as an issue.

I'm right behind you

Leon Gibbles
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-02-27 00:08:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Leon Gibbles
I would like to make them un-scoopable if someone is actively targeting/shooting at them.

EDIT

Or maybe give the person scooping it up a suspect or a limited engagement timer. Its annoying in highsec to get one into structure, then have a retriever scoop it up on you.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-02-27 01:35:12 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
does 3x higher mean 3x or 4x?


3x (+200%). I've updated the OP to clarify.

Fozzie, 3x higher means 4x. Dunno if you knew that or not.

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cyclobs
Loud Curse Enterprises
#37 - 2014-02-27 05:48:52 UTC
TAckermassacker wrote:
please add a "launch for corp" option

'Teamwork' Mobile Tractor Unit
can be accessed by all of your corpmembers


This.. so much this
Nadeko Hakomairos
Snow Moon City
Fraternity.
#38 - 2014-02-27 05:52:12 UTC
Taram Caldar wrote:
Honestly the mobile depots and mobile tractor units are the only mobile structures you created that are worth bothering with. All the rest are junk.... the siphons are adorable but most corps that pay attention have no problem clearing them before they accomplish anything.

On the OP though: Please add "Launch for Corp" as an option. They're structures. It should not be hard to add that functionality to them.


If you add "Launch for Corp" option, it will be necessary to add a corresponding permission in corporation management to clarify who can launch and who can scoop.
Clansworth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-02-27 09:22:09 UTC
The MTU's lack target priority isn't just going against using multiple MTU's, it also seriously hampers those who would like to use salvage drones.

Seriously, anyone in their right mind who was building a mobile device used for pulling in distant objects for nearby processing isn't going to bother pulling the closest - already in working range - objects first.

Ideal Priority -
Wrecks with loot - furthest then nearest
Wrecks without loot - furthest then nearest
Cargo Containers - nearest then furthest
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-02-27 11:01:51 UTC
View from w-space:

Thank you for the meta versions with faster tractor beams. That's helpful.
The other bonuses are not relevant to us.

By far the most useful feature to add to these MTUs would be to allow corp or fleet access. At the moment if the fleet member who dropped this unit in a series of C6 sites needs to log off to go to bed after an op, he is under considerable peer pressure not to, as his beauty sleep will cost his fleet several billion ISK.

Given that an MTU is already linked to a character, and a character maintains a reference to a corp (we know this because the pilot information window shows us his corp),I am struggling to imagine why it would be problematic to simply change the check from:

if (pilot == mtu.pilot) {
... allow opening and scooping ...
}

to

if (pilot.corp == mtu.pilot.corp
|| pilot.fleet == mtu.pilot.fleet
|| mtu.pilot.standingsOf(pilot) > 5) {
... allow opening and scooping ...
}

where mtu.pilot returns an object representing the dropper (owner) of the MTU.

Have I misunderstood something?

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