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Warfare & Tactics

 
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FW farming.... It's getting REALLY lame.

Author
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#81 - 2014-02-25 16:51:39 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Did George Washington complain about lack of fights in South Carolina when the British were holed up in Yorktown?! Did the Russians complain about "no good fights in the Urals" when the Germans retreated to Berlin??!! Did the Federation complain about "no good fights in Hykanima" when we laid seige to Ladistier?!!

NO! Go out there and get that medal you pansies!
Rahelis
Doomheim
#82 - 2014-02-25 17:45:42 UTC
Faction warfare should be a game of actual warfare and not pest control.

Think of world of tanks - before each battle all 30 tanks roll over the battlefield in search of cloaky farming tractors and kills them.

Or war thunder - before you take off you search your barracks for farming dudes and kill them.

Farming is nice - but not on a battlefiield.

The minnie mili is totally inactive - they only farm - I see that there are also tons of amarr farmers and I am not accusing any mili in general.

In fact the pies in fw systems give far better fights than our non existent war targets. And we had some wars against other amarr fw corps that gave better fights than fw.

Pockets is right - the fw missions also need fixes or been removed as a whole - they are inbalanced and useless.

LPs should only be given for ship kills and systems taken.

Like a war.
David Devant
CTRL-Q
Ushra'Khan
#83 - 2014-02-25 19:19:35 UTC
Rahelis wrote:
Faction warfare should be a game of actual warfare and not pest control.

Think of world of tanks - before each battle all 30 tanks roll over the battlefield in search of cloaky farming tractors and kills them.

Or war thunder - before you take off you search your barracks for farming dudes and kill them.

Farming is nice - but not on a battlefiield.

The minnie mili is totally inactive - they only farm - I see that there are also tons of amarr farmers and I am not accusing any mili in general.

In fact the pies in fw systems give far better fights than our non existent war targets. And we had some wars against other amarr fw corps that gave better fights than fw.

Pockets is right - the fw missions also need fixes or been removed as a whole - they are inbalanced and useless.

LPs should only be given for ship kills and systems taken.

Like a war.


There's plenty of us around. We're just not fighting for systems we don't give a **** about. I have 7bil in my wallet and I mostly fly Firetails, so why should I care about warzone control?
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#84 - 2014-02-25 19:27:35 UTC
David Devant wrote:


There's plenty of us around. We're just not fighting for systems we don't give a **** about. I have 7bil in my wallet and I mostly fly Firetails, so why should I care about warzone control?


Almity leads nightly roams in the DayZ beta if you want to join in. Lol
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#85 - 2014-02-26 06:30:45 UTC
Zen Guerrilla wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Let me explain it: There are two systems the minnies are sitting in.
Ofc also because minnies never fight without links are they are mostly too lazy to move their links out of system^^
Besides these two systems I am singing "I´m blue dababadi da..." because every wt you see is a farmer.
So you can go into these 2 systems where you have tidi and massive blob. But that is not fw. That is 0.0 warfare. So fw is totally dead atm in amarr/minmatar wz. Boring like f...

Everytime i see you enter system, you whine in local, call me a blobtard, accuse me of running links, whine some more, run from every fight and finally you move on. I can only assume you do that exact routine in every system.

Have you ever considered that you might be the bitter one who's wrong here? Bear



4 days ago you told me in local: I am alwayssolo.
2 days ago you tried to blob me in 4vs1 after I solod a dessie in a dessie an had half burned modules^^.
Yes the pie gave me a good fight. The minnies wouldn´t give it. They directly came in numbers of 4^^
BTW: You and your alt is NOT solo.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#86 - 2014-02-26 12:24:55 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Potential idea: Tier FW payouts based on pilots on grid.

Example: Base payout for a Novice plex.
1 Ship, 500 LP, +/- 5 Victory Points.
2 Ships, 1200 LP, +/- 10 Victory Points.
3 Ships, 2500 LP, +/- 15 Victory Points.
4 Ships, 3600 LP, +/- 20 Victory Points.
5+ Ships, 5000 LP, +/- 25 Victory Points.

A bonus: The LP Payouts for FW ship kills are doubled when destroyed inside the Plex.





Please do this. The 100 ship cloaking fleet will utterly break FW. Alternatively the destruction of a hojillion rookie ships with cheap t1 mods fitted to them will be used to infinitely earn money.
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#87 - 2014-02-26 12:58:24 UTC
I have an alt to farm LP as well but I combine it with
<--- this main char to get some PVP out of it.

The sad thing is that you find botters everywhere.

from LVL4 missions to mining over FW and null sec ratting.
There is not really any other thing you can do other than reporting them as potential botters and let have ccp handle it. (hopefully)

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif

Professor Kent
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2014-02-26 14:52:00 UTC
I can see only few things which can be done to solve problem with farming (remember, It's only my point of view - viewer discretion is advised):

1) Timer reseats - when you go out of range of the timer, cloak, warp off, WHATEVER - the timer resets to default time.
2) If acceleration gates can limit SOME ships from going in, why they can't limit usage of modules? Let every acceleration gate on novice/small/med/large plexes deny entrance for every ship with CLOAKS and STABS. No, I don't want to delete these modules or to change them in ANY way, I want farmers to be forced to take much GREATER risk for that reward, PERIOD.

I believe that 2 things mentioned above would solve the problem. Dedicated farmers will farm of course, but we pvpers will be able to kill them if they try too hard.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#89 - 2014-02-26 14:54:11 UTC
Professor Kent wrote:
I can see only few things which can be done to solve problem with farming (remember, It's only my point of view - viewer discretion is advised):

1) Timer reseats - when you go out of range of the timer, cloak, warp off, WHATEVER - the timer resets to default time.
2) If acceleration gates can limit SOME ships from going in, why they can't limit usage of modules? Let every acceleration gate on novice/small/med/large plexes deny entrance for every ship with CLOAKS and STABS. No, I don't want to delete these modules or to change them in ANY way, I want farmers to be forced to take much GREATER risk for that reward, PERIOD.

I believe that 2 things mentioned above would solve the problem. Dedicated farmers will farm of course, but we pvpers will be able to kill them if they try too hard.



+1

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Rahelis
Doomheim
#90 - 2014-02-26 14:56:39 UTC
When bots play eve and players are bored - - - then I as a dev would pay attention and not think about deployable kitchen sinks, but game mechanics.

FW has to be war - or it is not worth playing it.

Farming belongs ot null sec where all the farmers live.

Having 7 bill - small change - who cares for that?

When I log in I want to fight for my faction and corp and not count my isk.

When farming in bots is the ultimate goal in eve - then eve is not worth playing it.

I do not accuse you farming players - you would bend every game just to feel comforable with the "wealth" you have accumulated, because you do not understand the game. The problem is game mechanics that lets you act this foolish in the first place.

If there is no reward in fighting for your faction, and you do not care for your faction - why be part of a faction milita?

Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#91 - 2014-02-26 15:27:18 UTC
Professor Kent wrote:
I can see only few things which can be done to solve problem with farming (remember, It's only my point of view - viewer discretion is advised):

1) Timer reseats - when you go out of range of the timer, cloak, warp off, WHATEVER - the timer resets to default time.
2) If acceleration gates can limit SOME ships from going in, why they can't limit usage of modules? Let every acceleration gate on novice/small/med/large plexes deny entrance for every ship with CLOAKS and STABS. No, I don't want to delete these modules or to change them in ANY way, I want farmers to be forced to take much GREATER risk for that reward, PERIOD.

I believe that 2 things mentioned above would solve the problem. Dedicated farmers will farm of course, but we pvpers will be able to kill them if they try too hard.

Timer resets are such a bad idea. thats a great way to ensure that a big blob will never loose a plex in a certain system.

To stop the current farming the old plexs should just be brought back. there was no farmers doing the plexs back then. and if they bring back the old plex spawns, CCP needs to balance the rats properly. this is what everybody was demanding for FW, not the current 1 rat spawn.

2. i completely agree. if your running stabs the timer shouldnt tick.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2014-02-26 15:51:42 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Professor Kent wrote:
I can see only few things which can be done to solve problem with farming (remember, It's only my point of view - viewer discretion is advised):

1) Timer reseats - when you go out of range of the timer, cloak, warp off, WHATEVER - the timer resets to default time.
2) If acceleration gates can limit SOME ships from going in, why they can't limit usage of modules? Let every acceleration gate on novice/small/med/large plexes deny entrance for every ship with CLOAKS and STABS. No, I don't want to delete these modules or to change them in ANY way, I want farmers to be forced to take much GREATER risk for that reward, PERIOD.

I believe that 2 things mentioned above would solve the problem. Dedicated farmers will farm of course, but we pvpers will be able to kill them if they try too hard.

Timer resets are such a bad idea. thats a great way to ensure that a big blob will never loose a plex in a certain system.

To stop the current farming the old plexs should just be brought back. there was no farmers doing the plexs back then. and if they bring back the old plex spawns, CCP needs to balance the rats properly. this is what everybody was demanding for FW, not the current 1 rat spawn.

2. i completely agree. if your running stabs the timer shouldnt tick.


Timer resets are a bad idea. Timer rollbacks would work. In other words, the timer could be started into a rollback mode by having a FW character within 30km and the timer would continue to run towards neutral even if the player leaves the plex as if the player was still there.

.

Professor Kent
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2014-02-26 16:03:18 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:

Timer resets are such a bad idea. thats a great way to ensure that a big blob will never loose a plex in a certain system.

To stop the current farming the old plexs should just be brought back. there was no farmers doing the plexs back then. and if they bring back the old plex spawns, CCP needs to balance the rats properly. this is what everybody was demanding for FW, not the current 1 rat spawn.

2. i completely agree. if your running stabs the timer shouldnt tick.



But really, tell me - would that big fleets be a bad thing? You could take similar fleet and just fight - that would be a thing we WANT TO HAPPEN.

Do you remember pre-inferno FW, before station "lockouts" changes? It was one of the best moments in FW - fights 23/7 in almost every system. It wasn't important if you loose or win, you HAD fights, and for me, It's about having fights, not being forced to watch how 80% of militia is farming like mad goats.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#94 - 2014-02-26 16:36:23 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:

Timer resets are a bad idea. Timer rollbacks would work. In other words, the timer could be started into a rollback mode by having a FW character within 30km and the timer would continue to run towards neutral even if the player leaves the plex as if the player was still there.


Having "reset mode" when you're not in the plex is just another form of AFK play. You shouldn't be able to impact the plex timer without being inside the plex.

Getting more rewards for deplexing (50-75% of oplex rewards, not scaled by contested %, for example) could make it worthwhile to stick around.

Dual timers means equal effort needed to cap a plex for both offense and defense.

Anything punitive timer-wise gives an unfair advantage to a defender. The warzones would become even more stagnant since it'd be so much more difficult to flip defended systems.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#95 - 2014-02-26 16:38:37 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Andre Vauban wrote:

Timer resets are a bad idea. Timer rollbacks would work. In other words, the timer could be started into a rollback mode by having a FW character within 30km and the timer would continue to run towards neutral even if the player leaves the plex as if the player was still there.


Having "reset mode" when you're not in the plex is just another form of AFK play. You shouldn't be able to impact the plex timer without being inside the plex.

Getting more rewards for deplexing (50-75% of oplex rewards, not scaled by contested %, for example) could make it worthwhile to stick around.

Dual timers means equal effort needed to cap a plex for both offense and defense.

Anything punitive timer-wise gives an unfair advantage to a defender. The warzones would become even more stagnant since it'd be so much more difficult to flip defended systems.


Flat payout for Dplexing definitely wouldn't hurt (even if it is only 50% of what you get for oplexing).
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#96 - 2014-02-26 16:51:34 UTC
Professor Kent wrote:
Do you remember pre-inferno FW, before station "lockouts" changes? It was one of the best moments in FW - fights 23/7 in almost every system. It wasn't important if you loose or win, you HAD fights, and for me, It's about having fights, not being forced to watch how 80% of militia is farming like mad goats.
All this talk about "the good old days" is rubbish. My entire corporation is overloaded with PvP TODAY. It's never been more active. We'll have about 30 guys with 200+ kills by the end of this month.

Anyways, it's very interesting to see the differences between the two fronts. I firmly believe it's because both sides (Caldari and Gallente) have committed to putting themselves at risk by basing in FW low sec. If Templis or OMG decided to "opt out and base outside of FW low sec" it would be less "stressful" and result in less pew.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#97 - 2014-02-26 17:05:30 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Anyways, it's very interesting to see the differences between the two fronts. I firmly believe it's because both sides (Caldari and Gallente) have committed to putting themselves at risk by basing in FW low sec. If Templis or OMG decided to "opt out and base outside of FW low sec" it would be less "stressful" and result in less pew.


So much this. Skin in the game is the one thing that will drive conflict above all others. If you want to drive conflict, having people live in the areas they "control" is the fastest way to do it.

Being able to drive Innia to 1500+ ships and pods destroyed on any given Saturday is just awe inspiring for those that think you have to have massive coalitions to get fights.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#98 - 2014-02-26 17:08:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ALUCARD 1208
how will stopping cloaks and stabs stop farming the farmers will sit as far away from the warp in but still inside button range as they can and watch dscan like they do now anyone comes on shortrange they warp to a pre made safe and stay there till u get bored and fk off ... please think about these so called fixes before u spout them
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#99 - 2014-02-26 17:21:27 UTC
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
how will stopping cloaks and stabs stop farming the farmers will sit as far away from the warp in but still inside button range as they can and watch dscan like they do now anyone comes on shortrange they warp to a pre made safe and stay there till u get bored and fk off ... please think about these so called fixes before u spout them

Exactly. There's always a way for an alert player (or well programmed bot) to evade action.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."

Professor Kent
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2014-02-26 17:23:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Professor Kent
X Gallentius wrote:
Professor Kent wrote:
Do you remember pre-inferno FW, before station "lockouts" changes? It was one of the best moments in FW - fights 23/7 in almost every system. It wasn't important if you loose or win, you HAD fights, and for me, It's about having fights, not being forced to watch how 80% of militia is farming like mad goats.
All this talk about "the good old days" is rubbish. My entire corporation is overloaded with PvP TODAY. It's never been more active. We'll have about 30 guys with 200+ kills by the end of this month.

Anyways, it's very interesting to see the differences between the two fronts. I firmly believe it's because both sides (Caldari and Gallente) have committed to putting themselves at risk by basing in FW low sec. If Templis or OMG decided to "opt out and base outside of FW low sec" it would be less "stressful" and result in less pew.


Missunderstanding man, I said so, as an oposition to "big blobs trying to capture plexes", that's it. If it happens, good. More fleet fights to be had.

Veskrashen wrote:
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
how will stopping cloaks and stabs stop farming the farmers will sit as far away from the warp in but still inside button range as they can and watch dscan like they do now anyone comes on shortrange they warp to a pre made safe and stay there till u get bored and fk off ... please think about these so called fixes before u spout them

Exactly. There's always a way for an alert player (or well programmed bot) to evade action.


Good, but how would you change it? Most of you only criticize how all FW is bad, why you can't say anything how to fix this?