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Getting ganked on a closed Jita gate

First post
Author
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#421 - 2014-02-25 22:01:32 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
to be fair, there should be some way to know if jita is full other than having to try the gate.
no other gate is closed, let alone with no indication.


Is it Friday, Saturday, Sunday or Monday? If yes, Jita is full.

but there are plenty of times on those days that i've got in just fine. so clearly you're wrong.


To further improve upon the admiral's point, use DotLan.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Jita/stats

An intelligent man can look at that, and figure out what Jita's peak times are. I've mentioned before, that if you play EVE Online and you don't use DotLan, then you stand a pretty good chance of having gone full ******.

I guess I'm full ******, whatever that means.


Full ******.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#422 - 2014-02-25 22:02:26 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
No one is saying remove ganking,


Actually, I'm pretty sure you think it should be removed based on previous posts you've made.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
but gankers shouldnt get to take advantage just because the system is full capacity.


Gankers are taking advantage of people sitting on a gate, not of the next system being full.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Mario Putzo
#423 - 2014-02-25 22:02:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:


Well you are outright lying, numerous slowcat fleets have been defeated with subcaps,


Wrong.

There has been no full slowcat fleet killed by subcaps. Once they hit a critical mass subcaps do not have the firepower to kill them.

Mario Putzo wrote:

Its always fun to see folks comment on things they have no knowledge about themselves


We are the corp that invented industrialised ganking.


1) Defeat does not mean kill, but that is irrelevant, you can kill Archons and other caps with any BS fleet, regardless of the number of Archons on field. I can think of 4 different occasions CFC defeated Slow Cat fleets fielding subcaps. So pretend it didn't happen I don't really care. 2 of them were done while using less than 1600 megas too.

2) "We" as in the other people in GSF who know what they are talking about invented. I "Baltec1" an F1 monkey just reguritates what I think is the situation.

Come on son, everyone here knows you are talking mad ****. I get it though, I wouldn't my freebie saturday afternoon kills taken away either if I was a CFC knucledragger.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#424 - 2014-02-25 22:04:49 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
I "Baltec1" an F1 monkey just reguritates what I think is the situation.


I think you'll find Baltec is more than an F1 monkey, he's a living legend who had a doctrine named after him. Big smile

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#425 - 2014-02-25 22:05:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
So the 30 sec cloak you get after every gate jump or invunerability on undock shoul be removed also?
If grid loading and session changes are ever reduced to 0 seconds, it would have little to no reason to exist.

Quote:
No one is saying remove ganking, but gankers shouldnt get to take advantage just because the system is full capacity.
Gankers should get to take advantage of people who choose to gamble and lose and who sit around in space doing nothing rather make themselves safe.

Marsha Mallow wrote:
Here's a basic example:
Manually piloted freighter warps to gate
click * click * awww shite, its saturday [just worked a solid week and can only play weekends] * align out * align * splat
Please justify this as acceptable
He should have done it in a different order and not skipped over the steps that would have let him avoid that fate. Figuring it's Saturday should have been his first step, and those clicks should have been moved a dozen or two places down the line…
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#426 - 2014-02-25 22:05:03 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

No not always. You are completly WRONG.


So where are all of the random kills then?

When you go an look at what the gankers target 99/100 will be poorly tanked with a high isk cargo.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#427 - 2014-02-25 22:06:55 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
I "Baltec1" an F1 monkey just reguritates what I think is the situation.


I think you'll find Baltec is more than an F1 monkey, he's a living legend who had a doctrine named after him. Big smile


Its almost as if he is trying to show he knows nothing about what happens in his gameRoll
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#428 - 2014-02-25 22:08:26 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


So the 30 sec cloak you get after every gate jump or invunerability on undock shoul be removed also?

Just because someone gets ganked doesnt mean it was their fault. You dont control that the ganker does. You guys love to say its your fault for not xyz yet doing xyz still wont prevent it should they want to gank you.

No one is saying remove ganking, but gankers shouldnt get to take advantage just because the system is full capacity.


There wouldn't be a gank at all if the victim didn't make themselves worth ganking. It is entirely the victims fault they were ganked.

No not always. You are completly WRONG.


No, always.

If it wasn't worthwhile to gank, no one would do it.

If people orbited asteroids with an afterburner on, they wouldn't be ganked easily enough to make it worthwhile.

If people weren't stupid enough to afk in open space with deadspace mods, they wouldn't explode. And heck, even when they do, they live far too often.

If you are ganked, it is your fault, because it could have been avoided.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#429 - 2014-02-25 22:11:47 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:


I can think of 4 different occasions CFC defeated Slow Cat fleets fielding subcaps..


Name them.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#430 - 2014-02-25 22:15:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
You claim that people want to exploit this be able to gank people.
I submit you want to change the mechanics of the game to prevent ganking.

Nope. People are exploiting this to gank people.
Ganking needs to exist in balance, and when server mechanics or limitations are exploited - it's an exploit.
I'm not blaming anyone for doing it, or upholding victim rights blehblehbleh.
Tbf I think people who go to Jita on a weekend are a bit dim. BUT.

Here's a basic example:
Manually piloted freighter warps to gate
click * click * awww shite, its saturday [just worked a solid week and can only play weekends] * align out * align * splat
Please justify this as acceptable
ps. character has chosen 'courier' as a profession



This is a reasonable situation. I am sure it happens often. I appreciate that you're asking.

If the character has chosen Courier as a profession and has chosen not to check his route, check local (setting individual standings for known gankers is a plus), and knowingly travels to Jita during peak I think the splat is justified. Obviously, he can mitigate his losses in many different ways depending on his cargo, his pickup and destination, etc.

If nothing else, look at it as a low sec courier job. If the job takes you to low sec, don't take the contract. If it takes you to Jita, don't take the contract.

A beneficial side effect would include an increase in Courier contract payouts for people needing stuff moved in or out of Jita to attract more Courier characters. i.e. "I'll go to Jita... for a price..."

That is the point I've been trying to make. I give a lot of respect to CCP and her devs for making a brilliant game. I do not trust them with changes in mechanics. The nature of the sandbox is that we leverage the existing mechanics to make the game more vibrant. I get that getting your **** blown up waiting on a gate sucks. I don't think anyone can deny that. What I don't get is why people don't figure out ways to outsmart those rascally gankers and really stick it to them rather than ask CCP to add stupid crap mechanics that are unnecessary and will likely be horrible.

I say let players play the game and tell the devs to stay the **** home.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#431 - 2014-02-25 22:25:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
Not only does this help pilots. This also helps reduce server load. Which is the whole point of the cap in the first place.
How does it reduce server load?


It gives an incentive to warp off instead of swamping the node in jump requests.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#432 - 2014-02-26 00:36:28 UTC
Sirinda wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
Not only does this help pilots. This also helps reduce server load. Which is the whole point of the cap in the first place.
How does it reduce server load?


It gives an incentive to warp off instead of swamping the node in jump requests.


Knowing that Jita is a suckfest during peak hours is an incentive to warp anywhere else. We don't need incentives bestowed via divine intervention to know that Jita is a suckfest during peak hours and, in knowing that, warping somewhere else.

Clicking jump does not swamp the node - unless you're actually jumping into the node during peak hours.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Marsha Mallow
#433 - 2014-02-26 06:43:38 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
This is a reasonable situation. I am sure it happens often
[Did you just flash me wth impertinence? Fingers crossed, it shows life]
I appreciate that you're asking
[Now I feel smug: Have converted forum thing to person. I might just need a coffee tho. It's all so confusing.]


Kimmi Chan wrote:
If the character has chosen Courier as a profession

Despite the fact that I have to resort to an e-cig and decaf coffee before the drive from hell I made time especially for you (I like you!) - so I'll try to be nice.

Capitalising Courier then attempting to talk authoritatively about the 'profession' is a bit of a giveaway that you have no idea what you are on about other than regurgitating forum spam. You threw yourself into that one beautifully tho!

Kimmi Chan wrote:
That is the point I've been trying to make. I give a lot of respect to CCP and her devs for making a brilliant game. I do not trust them with changes in mechanics. The nature of the sandbox is that we leverage the existing mechanics to make the game more vibrant. I get that getting your **** blown up waiting on a gate sucks. I don't think anyone can deny that. What I don't get is why people don't figure out ways to outsmart those rascally gankers and really stick it to them rather than ask CCP to add stupid crap mechanics that are unnecessary and will likely be horrible.

I say let players play the game and tell the devs to stay the **** home.


Giving a lot of respect to CCP then mistrusting them with further development is both disturbing and well, utterly sensible in my eyes too! But that isn't what you've been arguing here until now so stop backpedalling.

The forums are here to facilitate player squawking and rambling regardless of the entitlement of the squatters. We don't need self appointed gatekeepers, particularly if they are twats. We already have CCP and the CSM ffs. Tippia might still be around in a year or two pedantically correcting people. The rest won't. I dare you to disagree with them (for a year or two). Just for fun.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#434 - 2014-02-26 09:22:07 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
This is a reasonable situation. I am sure it happens often
[Did you just flash me wth impertinence? Fingers crossed, it shows life]
I appreciate that you're asking
[Now I feel smug: Have converted forum thing to person. I might just need a coffee tho. It's all so confusing.]


Kimmi Chan wrote:
If the character has chosen Courier as a profession

Despite the fact that I have to resort to an e-cig and decaf coffee before the drive from hell I made time especially for you (I like you!) - so I'll try to be nice.

Capitalising Courier then attempting to talk authoritatively about the 'profession' is a bit of a giveaway that you have no idea what you are on about other than regurgitating forum spam. You threw yourself into that one beautifully tho!

Kimmi Chan wrote:
That is the point I've been trying to make. I give a lot of respect to CCP and her devs for making a brilliant game. I do not trust them with changes in mechanics. The nature of the sandbox is that we leverage the existing mechanics to make the game more vibrant. I get that getting your **** blown up waiting on a gate sucks. I don't think anyone can deny that. What I don't get is why people don't figure out ways to outsmart those rascally gankers and really stick it to them rather than ask CCP to add stupid crap mechanics that are unnecessary and will likely be horrible.

I say let players play the game and tell the devs to stay the **** home.


Giving a lot of respect to CCP then mistrusting them with further development is both disturbing and well, utterly sensible in my eyes too! But that isn't what you've been arguing here until now so stop backpedalling.

The forums are here to facilitate player squawking and rambling regardless of the entitlement of the squatters. We don't need self appointed gatekeepers, particularly if they are twats. We already have CCP and the CSM ffs. Tippia might still be around in a year or two pedantically correcting people. The rest won't. I dare you to disagree with them (for a year or two). Just for fun.


Your reply is not helpful in any way. I don't always agree with Tippia. Those times where Tippia and I don't agree we are usually able to speak logically and intelligently. Here is an example.

If you had been paying attention to what is going on rather than focusing your ire on the people who have been paying attention to what is going on, you would understand the reason things are as they are and why any suggestion made here is to prevent a valid style of play and is simply unnecessary.

When I say,

Kimmi Chan wrote:
I say let players play the game and tell the devs to stay the **** home.


Is it your intent to just disagree? "Sure to hell with the players! The devs need to make a better game (for Marsha Mallow)!"

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Salvos Rhoska
#435 - 2014-02-26 11:39:38 UTC
Attacking players who are clumped en masse at a given point, whether that be anywhere in space or at a gate, is in no way shape or form exploitation or cheating.

Systems have caps. In ingame terms, those represent the capacity ofnthe NPC system Authorities to handle and service traffic in their system. They close the gates, and inform you of that, when their capacity is reached.

There is nothing wrong with that.

It is not a server issue, it is an ingame restriction imposed by the system Authorities on how many Capsuleers they will allow into their space at that time.

It is not a CCP issue, because the gate queues are caused by player behavior for which they are themselves responsibe.
Namely collectively trying to force themselves through the eye of a needle that they have been informed of, ingame, as being restricted for access by the recipient systems Authorities.

If you choose to sit in a blob at a gate, that is your independant player choice.
If someone decides to attack that blob (or individual), that is their independant choice.

There is absolutely nothing needing of correction from CCPs side, and in fact, intervention on this issue by giving Jita non-standard preferential treatment would be a violation of the unwritten rule of CCP non-intervention in player based matters.

For all intents and relevant ingame purposes, the popularity and capacity of Jita has plateued.
CCP is not blocking your access to Jita. Other players are, and you, in turn, are blocking their access as well.
CCP is not attacking you while blobbed at a gate, other players are.

Jita is FULL at times. Accept that, and formulate your ingame strategy to account for this purely player based and player caused competetive phenomenon.

Those of you who even attempt to blackmail CCP into giving Jita preferential treatment, shouldm realise that for every single on of you that tries to push their sense of entitlement against the threat of unsubbing, there are 10 people who will respond with 10 times your level of discontent should CCP intervene to modify the games base mechanics on this issue.

TLDR: Jita, just like everything else in the EVE universe, and IRL, has a maximum capacity it can service.
Adapt your strategy to:
-Either trade at other hubs or from peripheral systems.
-Adjust your use of game time so that you do your Jita business at off peaks, and something else during the peaks.
-Swap profession and begin capitalising on the xhoice of other players to blob at a gate.
-Simply continue to do as you are now, by queuing into Jita at peak, as do many others, and accpet the consequence of that by being blocked from access by other people who are choosing this same strategy as you, and whom you in turn, are also blocking, resulting in one enormous cluster**** entirely of your making.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#436 - 2014-02-26 14:09:58 UTC
admiral root wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
No one is saying remove ganking,


Actually, I'm pretty sure you think it should be removed based on previous posts you've made.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
but gankers shouldnt get to take advantage just because the system is full capacity.


Gankers are taking advantage of people sitting on a gate, not of the next system being full.

You cant comprehend what I write, much less what I am thinking.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#437 - 2014-02-26 14:14:09 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
admiral root wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
No one is saying remove ganking,


Actually, I'm pretty sure you think it should be removed based on previous posts you've made.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
but gankers shouldnt get to take advantage just because the system is full capacity.


Gankers are taking advantage of people sitting on a gate, not of the next system being full.

You cant comprehend what I write, much less what I am thinking.


LOL No one can.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#438 - 2014-02-26 14:29:55 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


So the 30 sec cloak you get after every gate jump or invunerability on undock shoul be removed also?

Just because someone gets ganked doesnt mean it was their fault. You dont control that the ganker does. You guys love to say its your fault for not xyz yet doing xyz still wont prevent it should they want to gank you.

No one is saying remove ganking, but gankers shouldnt get to take advantage just because the system is full capacity.


There wouldn't be a gank at all if the victim didn't make themselves worth ganking. It is entirely the victims fault they were ganked.

No not always. You are completly WRONG.


No, always.

If it wasn't worthwhile to gank, no one would do it.

If people orbited asteroids with an afterburner on, they wouldn't be ganked easily enough to make it worthwhile.

If people weren't stupid enough to afk in open space with deadspace mods, they wouldn't explode. And heck, even when they do, they live far too often.

If you are ganked, it is your fault, because it could have been avoided.

Should if's and buts be candy and nuts we would all have a merry Christmas. if your Aunt had gahona's would she still be your Aunt?

We could what if anything into the ground. I am sure you guys would and will continue to argue because that is what you love to do.

Reasonable people with any kind of intelligence would be able to discern that not only can people be ganked through no fault of their own but it happens every day. Even baltic said 99/100 not 100/100 but 99/100 even he is capable seeing it’s not always.


People can take every precaution available and should you be at the wrong place at the wrong time you can still get ganked.

Ganking is just part of the game but to suggest that every single person that ever was or will be ganked is ALWAYS at fault is ignorant.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#439 - 2014-02-26 14:31:45 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
admiral root wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
No one is saying remove ganking,


Actually, I'm pretty sure you think it should be removed based on previous posts you've made.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
but gankers shouldnt get to take advantage just because the system is full capacity.


Gankers are taking advantage of people sitting on a gate, not of the next system being full.

You cant comprehend what I write, much less what I am thinking.


LOL No one can.

Lack of comprehension is on you not me. Big smile
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#440 - 2014-02-26 14:32:22 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


So the 30 sec cloak you get after every gate jump or invunerability on undock shoul be removed also?

Just because someone gets ganked doesnt mean it was their fault. You dont control that the ganker does. You guys love to say its your fault for not xyz yet doing xyz still wont prevent it should they want to gank you.

No one is saying remove ganking, but gankers shouldnt get to take advantage just because the system is full capacity.


There wouldn't be a gank at all if the victim didn't make themselves worth ganking. It is entirely the victims fault they were ganked.

No not always. You are completly WRONG.


No, always.

If it wasn't worthwhile to gank, no one would do it.

If people orbited asteroids with an afterburner on, they wouldn't be ganked easily enough to make it worthwhile.

If people weren't stupid enough to afk in open space with deadspace mods, they wouldn't explode. And heck, even when they do, they live far too often.

If you are ganked, it is your fault, because it could have been avoided.

Should if's and buts be candy and nuts we would all have a merry Christmas. if your Aunt had gahona's would she still be your Aunt?

We could what if anything into the ground. I am sure you guys would and will continue to argue because that is what you love to do.

Reasonable people with any kind of intelligence would be able to discern that not only can people be ganked through no fault of their own but it happens every day. Even baltic said 99/100 not 100/100 but 99/100 even he is capable seeing it’s not always.


People can take every precaution available and should you be at the wrong place at the wrong time you can still get ganked.

Ganking is just part of the game but to suggest that every single person that ever was or will be ganked is ALWAYS at fault is ignorant.


Hypotheticals aside, space is a dangerous place.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!