These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

First post First post First post
Author
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#601 - 2014-02-26 01:04:19 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:


I've already answered this, being better is different from being fun, and for me the fun of the Worm is the fact you can use 5 drones with 5 spare on a shield tanked frigate.


I don't know, the fact that if I'm right I'll be doing ~215 DPS while still having top tier tank in the frigate class is going to be more fun than the slightly anemic Worm of now.

The new Worm is, in terms of stats, objectively superior to the old one. More fitting, more DPS, (slightly) more tank, it's faster...
Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#602 - 2014-02-26 01:04:27 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
of course it's bad. drones are supposed to be pretty much ewar-proof.



Drones are pretty much EWAR proof, that doesn't mean they are supposed to be. I don't believe I have ever seen a Dev say that they want drones to be immune to EWAR.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#603 - 2014-02-26 01:04:48 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
I can't believe there are people defending the current Worm.

If you want a 25/50 drone frigate, fly an Ishkur tbh.


I don't like the Ishkur, i like the Worm, it's a drone 25/50 shield tanked ship with a Merlin hull.

The Tears Must Flow

Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#604 - 2014-02-26 01:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
people is defending too much is ganking capabilities but are not taking in account how would be the counter for them.

they cant be EWAR'ed, even getting webbed they still give a bit of damage, now add to that that those drones will have more than 2k EHP and will have obscene damage, while microwarpdriving at insane speed like any other light drone....
Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#605 - 2014-02-26 01:07:28 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
I like using 5 drones on a frigate, i like micromanaging 5 drones plus 5 spares during fights, only having 2 active drones ruin the fun of this ship for me (the current Worm is my favorite ship of the game).




I don't share your enthusiasm for micromanaging drones mid-combat but I can understand it. However one persons joy at micromanaging drones is not a point that the Devs should use in balancing their game.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#606 - 2014-02-26 01:07:32 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
I like using 5 drones on a frigate, i like micromanaging 5 drones plus 5 spares during fights, only having 2 active drones ruin the fun of this ship for me (the current Worm is my favorite ship of the game).

The Tristan, Ishkur and Astero are all 5 drone frigates and most can be shield fit fairly well.

The Worm was bad and dead the second crucible deployed with the updated Tristan.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#607 - 2014-02-26 01:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Aglais wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:


I've already answered this, being better is different from being fun, and for me the fun of the Worm is the fact you can use 5 drones with 5 spare on a shield tanked frigate.


I don't know, the fact that if I'm right I'll be doing ~215 DPS while still having top tier tank in the frigate class is going to be more fun than the slightly anemic Worm of now.

The new Worm is, in terms of stats, objectively superior to the old one. More fitting, more DPS, (slightly) more tank, it's faster...


You don't seem to get it, i couldn't careless if the new Worm can do 300 dps, that's irrelevant for me, if i want to fly overpowered ships i would just go ahead and fly one. The fact that i can't use 5 drones and 5 spares ruin the fun of this ship for me.

The Tears Must Flow

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#608 - 2014-02-26 01:08:18 UTC
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
of course it's bad. drones are supposed to be pretty much ewar-proof.



Drones are pretty much EWAR proof, that doesn't mean they are supposed to be. I don't believe I have ever seen a Dev say that they want drones to be immune to EWAR.


that would make no sense. combat drones need love, not to be made less interesting and worse.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#609 - 2014-02-26 01:09:08 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
I like using 5 drones on a frigate, i like micromanaging 5 drones plus 5 spares during fights, only having 2 active drones ruin the fun of this ship for me (the current Worm is my favorite ship of the game).

The Tristan, Ishkur and Astero are all 5 drone frigates and most can be shield fit fairly well.

The Worm was bad and dead the second crucible deployed with the updated Tristan.


Bad for you, not for me, it's my favorite ship in the game.

The Tears Must Flow

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#610 - 2014-02-26 01:10:49 UTC
lol @ shield tristan, ishkur and astero
Buckethead bot
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#611 - 2014-02-26 01:10:58 UTC

Why nobody is talking about cruor ?

IT IS STILL BAD.

he will still have verry low DPS and EHP.

Minmatar and rocket ships will just rotfstomp it.

HE NEEDS +1 low slot
Yazzinra
Scorpion Ventures
#612 - 2014-02-26 01:12:12 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


  • I can confirm that 10mn AB Succbus is gross, it's 5k/sec or something before links. We are ok with this.

  • ShockedShockedShockedShocked

    Edit: Basically, what has changed between the af rework and now that 50-100% ab bonuses are no longer overpowered?


    seriously, this.

    AFs were deemed overpowered with half the current succubus afterburner bonus. This could really use an answer.




    otherwise, i look forward to this web range bonused ashimmu. aside from the comet, faction frigs aren't really my thing.
    Grath Telkin
    Amok.
    Goonswarm Federation
    #613 - 2014-02-26 01:12:35 UTC
    Vaju Enki wrote:

    Being overpowered != of being fun. The current Worm with 25/50 drone configuration is a fun ship to fly.


    You are one of like, 10 guys in all of EVE who think the current worm is 'fun'

    edit: evidently including the developers.

    Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

    Elise Randolph
    Habitual Euthanasia
    Pandemic Legion
    #614 - 2014-02-26 01:14:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Elise Randolph
    Seems neat.

    First impression is that the Succubus is going to fly like a shield Crusader - kinda neat to think about.

    I worry that bonuses don't scale very well, though, and the Phantasm seems to get a bit shafted. Promotes a sig tank, but also an active shield tank at the same time with a pretty large base sig for a cruiser. Sigtanking + shield tanking /usually/ don't go hand in hand. It has (had, let's be real) success on the Tengu since it could shoot at 90km and deal nearly twice the DPS, but this bad boy is going to have to be in close. May work. AB bonus would be downright sexual on an armor doctrine, though - even up to BS size.

    Cruor seems like a lovechild between a Hyena and Sentinel - maybe like a 5th child or something so it doesn't get quite the same love the first ones did - but that doesn't mean it's bad. 26km webs and if it gets all up on your grill it'll shut down ill-prepared turret ships/logis/ewar like woah.

    The scaling will be a bit wonky on this, as well. Like just because the Ashimmu gets an old-school nos won't make it worth flying - it's still going to be trash-tier. Back in the day old style nos was super super OP, I'll give you that. But the meta back then was completely different. ASBs didn't exist, damps were super god tier, jams were super god tier, ludicrous speeds were everywhere, all webs were 90%, and cruise hit small ships like a sack of bricks. I'm not saying the nos bonus is bad, per se, but I honestly don't think it'll be enough to make the Ashimmu worth flying like, ever.

    Worm is neat. Maybe OP neat - 8 effective drones is a lot of effective drones considering you can only reduce the incoming DPS if you kill 4 effective drones in one go. Like if I did 3 drones worth of damage to one yoked out Worm drone I'd still be getting blasted in the face with 8 drones worth of deeps. I guess you could TD 4 drones at once, too. Cool none the less.

    Scaling wise, the Gila lost favor over the Ishtar for a few reasons. Ishtar had really ******..kinda everything, but mostly CPU and tank. It simply couldn't do the same DEEPS:tank as a Gila. Then the new and imporved Ishtar came along and had beastmode drones and buffed effective tank in the MWD/sig bonus thing. Sentries that could track as well as a cruiser, but deal enough damage (at range) as a battleship, while being moderately survivable. Bingo.

    As for Rattlesnake vs Domi - again the Domi does more effective DPS from 0-~70km ( Domi - Garde II - 50km optimal, .057 tracking vs RS - Curator II - 52.5 km optimal, .024 tracking), but the RS does have a bigger tank (at the expense of a nearly 80% higher sig when both are fit). Scaling wise, at the BS level the 4% resist bonus is significant. The fact that Domis get 140% better tracking, however, does complicate things for sure.

    With regards to the Serpentis ships - I'm with you that the Daredevil is good. The web bonus is nice, it deals huge amounts of deeps, and is dead sexy.

    Angels, too, are right on par. I think the combination Dram-Cynabal-Mach is far and away the best in terms of balance and usefulness of all the pirate races. Some races have one or two really nice ones, but all three of these seem to fit a great niche.

    Right now if I were to rank the collective pirate races on their ship it would be

    Angel > Serpentis >> Guristas >>> Sansha > Blood

    Post patch it would probably be (assuming the same changes are made to the cruiser and bs hulls)

    Angel > Serpentis > Guristas > Sansha >> Blood.

    Same order, just smaller gaps.

    Excited to spend more time fiddling with the fits and playing around with them on SiSi, though.

    ~

    Grath Telkin
    Amok.
    Goonswarm Federation
    #615 - 2014-02-26 01:14:30 UTC
    Yazzinra wrote:


    AFs were deemed overpowered with half the current succubus afterburner bonus. This could really use an answer.



    They also have a much higher resist profile and higher damage output as well, whereas this particular ship has none of that. Those two things combined to make it just too much on the AF hull.

    Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

    Kapytul Gaynez
    Hedion University
    Amarr Empire
    #616 - 2014-02-26 01:14:34 UTC
    TrouserDeagle wrote:
    Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
    TrouserDeagle wrote:
    of course it's bad. drones are supposed to be pretty much ewar-proof.



    Drones are pretty much EWAR proof, that doesn't mean they are supposed to be. I don't believe I have ever seen a Dev say that they want drones to be immune to EWAR.


    that would make no sense. combat drones need love, not to be made less interesting and worse.



    Combat drones might need a little love. Different and interesting bonuses are a step in that direction. Not having them get one shot by smart bombs is a buff imo.
    Aglais
    Ice-Storm
    #617 - 2014-02-26 01:15:46 UTC
    Vaju Enki wrote:
    Aglais wrote:
    Vaju Enki wrote:


    I've already answered this, being better is different from being fun, and for me the fun of the Worm is the fact you can use 5 drones with 5 spare on a shield tanked frigate.


    I don't know, the fact that if I'm right I'll be doing ~215 DPS while still having top tier tank in the frigate class is going to be more fun than the slightly anemic Worm of now.

    The new Worm is, in terms of stats, objectively superior to the old one. More fitting, more DPS, (slightly) more tank, it's faster...


    You don't seem to get it, i couldn't careless if the new Worm can do 300 dps, that's irrelevant for me, if i want to fly overpowered ships i would just go ahead and fly one. The fact that i can't use 5 drones and 5 spares ruin the fun of this ship for me.


    Can I have yours then?
    Silivar Karkun
    Doomheim
    #618 - 2014-02-26 01:21:45 UTC
    still on the side that Sansha ships should have a tracking disruption bonus instead of the AB bonus, yeah you can get good speeds with the AB but get webbed and the show stops, while with the other you get webbed but the enemy has its optimal and tracking ****** so it will be hard for it to get you, in fact, if you can get it tracking jammed before you're sold....
    Seamus Donohue
    EVE University
    Ivy League
    #619 - 2014-02-26 01:22:25 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    note: Energy Vampires operate as though your capacitor is empty

    "Role Bonus: Energy Vampires always operate regardless of how much capacitor you and your target have."

    Survivor of Teskanen.  Fan of John Rourke.

    I have video tutorials for EVE Online on my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/SeamusDonohueEVE

    Victoria Thorne
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #620 - 2014-02-26 01:41:42 UTC
    I like the new Worm. It's interesting & different without looking OP. The old one was meh.

    I've also always wanted a reason to fly the Phantasm. I'm curious about the exact stats, but I think I might shortly have a reason to fly one...