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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#441 - 2014-02-25 21:39:18 UTC
In the camp of 'Need to see the cruisers and BS before being able to have much of an opinion.'

Changes are interesting, but need to see who they translate up.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#442 - 2014-02-25 21:39:24 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage

dronebay is 25/25 still

no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing....


This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop

Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#443 - 2014-02-25 21:40:12 UTC
obligue me, im gonna keep posting until there's a general concensus, but those **** bonuses in the OP need to be taken off
Mardus Rial
Mercurial Messenger Service
#444 - 2014-02-25 21:40:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Mardus Rial
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:


  • I really don't get the Guristas theme change: OK, sure, the ships will do as much damage using two drones as an un-bonused ship would do with six, but you're still doing (and absorbing!) LESS damage at the end of the day than a bonused drone boat does with five drones

A bonused ship does 7.5 effective drones worth of effective damage and has the same in hitpoints.
The revised worm does 8 effective drones worth while increasing the survivability of individual drones even more significantly.



Yeah, but the problem comes when somebody targets one of your drones and starts to kill it- you lose half of your DPS. Having to pull drones or get drones popped is already super annoying for Drone pilots, this idea will make that even worse- basically, this idea is a huge back-handed nerf to ships that just needed a little touch up to keep them on par with Gallente drone ships. (Well, the Worm needed a little more than Gila or Rattler do...either way, this totally does not seem like the way to go.)
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#445 - 2014-02-25 21:41:13 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage

dronebay is 25/25 still

no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing....


This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop

Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares.


that could be compensated by increasing the dronebay to 25/50, allows for an aditional flight of light drones, and some other nasty things
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#446 - 2014-02-25 21:41:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Mardus Rial wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:


  • I really don't get the Guristas theme change: OK, sure, the ships will do as much damage using two drones as an un-bonused ship would do with six, but you're still doing (and absorbing!) LESS damage at the end of the day than a bonused drone boat does with five drones

A bonused ship does 7.5 effective drones worth of effective damage and has the same in hitpoints.
The revised worm does 8 effective drones worth while increasing the survivability of individual drones even more significantly.



Yeah, but the problem comes when somebody targets one of your drones and starts to kill it- you lose half of your DPS. Having to pull drones or get drones popped is already super annoying for Drone pilots, this idea will make that even worse- basically, this idea is a huge back-handed nerf to ships that just needed a little touch up to keep them on par with Gallente drone ships. (Well, the Worm needed a little more than Gila or Rattler do...either way, this totally does not seem like the way to go.)


It takes them nearly as long to kill that one drone as it would take to kill an entire flight right now. And until its dead, its going full dps, and you have another 3 spares.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#447 - 2014-02-25 21:43:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage

dronebay is 25/25 still

no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing....


This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop

Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares.


No its not, the drones in the OP hit harder, and have more hit points, yours does absolutely nothing better in any regard except your drones are faster, at which point who cares - WOO LOOK AT ME MAH MY DRONES GO FAST.

Mardus Rial wrote:



Yeah, but the problem comes when somebody targets one of your drones and starts to kill it- you lose half of your DPS. Having to pull drones or get drones popped is already super annoying for Drone pilots, this idea will make that even worse- basically, this idea is a huge back-handed nerf to ships that just needed a little touch up to keep them on par with Gallente drone ships. (Well, the Worm needed a little more than Gila or Rattler do...either way, this totally does not seem like the way to go.)


Yea, good luck killing a 2500-2700 hp light drone in a fight with the ship thats trying to kill you, oh, and after you kill that one, he's got 4 more for you to kill, the whole time he's chewing on you. I wish you luck.

You're going to need it.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#448 - 2014-02-25 21:44:33 UTC
Mardus Rial wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:


  • I really don't get the Guristas theme change: OK, sure, the ships will do as much damage using two drones as an un-bonused ship would do with six, but you're still doing (and absorbing!) LESS damage at the end of the day than a bonused drone boat does with five drones

A bonused ship does 7.5 effective drones worth of effective damage and has the same in hitpoints.
The revised worm does 8 effective drones worth while increasing the survivability of individual drones even more significantly.



Yeah, but the problem comes when somebody targets one of your drones and starts to kill it- you lose half of your DPS. Having to pull drones or get drones popped is already super annoying for Drone pilots, this idea will make that even worse- basically, this idea is a huge back-handed nerf to ships that just needed a little touch up to keep them on par with Gallente drone ships. (Well, the Worm needed a little more than Gila or Rattler do...either way, this totally does not seem like the way to go.)

I'm not terribly PvP experienced so I can't say if a drone with 400% HP vs 150% has the survivability to not need immediate recall, but if it doesn't, it means more flexibility before a recall becomes necessary. With lights I doubt the difference will be terribly significant at times, but as you translate to large drones I'd imagine the help to be significant.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#449 - 2014-02-25 21:45:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
Grath Telkin wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage

dronebay is 25/25 still

no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing....


This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop

Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares.


No its not, the drones in the OP hit harder, and have more hit points, yours does absolutely nothing better in any regard except your drones are faster, at which point who cares - WOO LOOK AT ME MAH MY DRONES GO FAST.


you gotta be kidding, 300% damage and hitpoints is absurd, and that for compensating with a garbage kin/therm bonus for missiles along with a nerf to its bandwidth, ***** please.....
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#450 - 2014-02-25 21:45:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Grath Telkin wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage

dronebay is 25/25 still

no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing....


This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop

Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares.


No its not, the drones in the OP hit harder, and have more hit points, yours does absolutely nothing better in any regard except your drones are faster, at which point who cares - WOO LOOK AT ME MAH MY DRONES GO FAST.

1st, not my suggestion
2nd, 10 effective drones > 8 (Note the role bonus)

You are right about the drone HP though
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#451 - 2014-02-25 21:47:33 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage

dronebay is 25/25 still

no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing....


This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop

Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares.


No its not, the drones in the OP hit harder, and have more hit points, yours does absolutely nothing better in any regard except your drones are faster, at which point who cares - WOO LOOK AT ME MAH MY DRONES GO FAST.


you gotta be kidding, 300% damage and hitpoints is absurd, and that for compensating with a garbage kin/therm bonus for missiles along with a nerf to its bandwidth, ***** please.....


I have come to the conclusion that you know nothing jon snow

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#452 - 2014-02-25 21:49:27 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage

dronebay is 25/25 still

no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing....


This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop

Bonus wise it's better in every way, to the point of being severely OP I'd think. Only think it lacks is room for spares.


No its not, the drones in the OP hit harder, and have more hit points, yours does absolutely nothing better in any regard except your drones are faster, at which point who cares - WOO LOOK AT ME MAH MY DRONES GO FAST.

Mardus Rial wrote:



Yeah, but the problem comes when somebody targets one of your drones and starts to kill it- you lose half of your DPS. Having to pull drones or get drones popped is already super annoying for Drone pilots, this idea will make that even worse- basically, this idea is a huge back-handed nerf to ships that just needed a little touch up to keep them on par with Gallente drone ships. (Well, the Worm needed a little more than Gila or Rattler do...either way, this totally does not seem like the way to go.)


Yea, good luck killing a 2500-2700 hp light drone in a fight with the ship thats trying to kill you, oh, and after you kill that one, he's got 4 more for you to kill, the whole time he's chewing on you. I wish you luck.

You're going to need it.


I will take a speed bonus to drones on a frigate over extra damage any day.
Mardus Rial
Mercurial Messenger Service
#453 - 2014-02-25 21:50:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Mardus Rial
Michael Harari wrote:
Mardus Rial wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:


  • I really don't get the Guristas theme change: OK, sure, the ships will do as much damage using two drones as an un-bonused ship would do with six, but you're still doing (and absorbing!) LESS damage at the end of the day than a bonused drone boat does with five drones

A bonused ship does 7.5 effective drones worth of effective damage and has the same in hitpoints.
The revised worm does 8 effective drones worth while increasing the survivability of individual drones even more significantly.



Yeah, but the problem comes when somebody targets one of your drones and starts to kill it- you lose half of your DPS. Having to pull drones or get drones popped is already super annoying for Drone pilots, this idea will make that even worse- basically, this idea is a huge back-handed nerf to ships that just needed a little touch up to keep them on par with Gallente drone ships. (Well, the Worm needed a little more than Gila or Rattler do...either way, this totally does not seem like the way to go.)


It takes them nearly as long to kill that one drone as it would take to kill an entire flight right now. And until its dead, its going full dps, and you have another 3 spares.


Which isn't long enough, lol. Another problem with the "less but more powerful drones" theory is that if you are missing your target at all your DPS is going to go out the window.

The "Less drones with more (and by more, we mean the same) power" theory is a total back-handed nerf....and really startling to read after the Gallente drone boats just got such an awesome lift. If they wan't to give the Guristas boats something new that Gallente ships don't have, then give them an outright HP bonus or something.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#454 - 2014-02-25 21:52:49 UTC
Mardus Rial wrote:

Which isn't long enough, lol. Another problem with the "less but more powerful drones" theory is that if you are missing your target at all your DPS is going to go out the window.


Yes, missing your target makes your dps go down. I dont see how that is different from now.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#455 - 2014-02-25 21:52:49 UTC
its very simple:

your drones will have 50% better tracking and 50% extra speed

you will have 10 drones basically

you punch an extra with the power of 4 launchers and not limited to two damage types only

if the dronebay is increased to be 25/50 you have an extra flight of lights in case you loose the others....

the tradeoff here is that drones will get less HP i can change that too with the role bonus
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#456 - 2014-02-25 21:53:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
here:

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking, optimal and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone damage and hitpoints, rocket and light missile damage

bandwitdth and bay are 25/50
woodall
Nemesis-Theory
#457 - 2014-02-25 21:55:34 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
its very simple:

your drones will have 50% better tracking and 50% extra speed

you will have 10 drones basically

you punch an extra with the power of 4 launchers and not limited to two damage types only

if the dronebay is increased to be 25/50 you have an extra flight of lights in case you loose the others....

the tradeoff here is that drones will get less HP i can change that too with the role bonus


You are literally insane. You seem to think that its balanced having a frig do just short of 300 dps with no damage mods whatsoever (an enyo can only achieve that with void fitted and a magstab). not only do you have that much dps, but you want a huge bonus to the damage application of 2/3's of it on top. How on earth can you think that is balanced.
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#458 - 2014-02-25 21:56:36 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
here:

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone damage and hitpoints, rocket and light missile damage

bandwitdth and bay are 25/50



So... a 400 DPS tanky frigate. Not balanced.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#459 - 2014-02-25 21:57:18 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
[

I will take a speed bonus to drones on a frigate over extra damage any day.


Ok so real talk without being insulting but do you know why i hate drone speed bonuses? Because they're honestly right next to useless because of basic drone behavior.


The drone MWD's hellafast after its target right? Catching most things easy (Warriors already do, most people like these bonuses so they can have Hobs act like Warriors) but once the stupid drone catches up and starts shooting ....it stops mwding.

So theres this permanent cycle of speed---> coast--->speed ---->coast. It generally means that the damn drone is firing in falloff for almost every shot except for the ones its taking at mwd speed, and those have tracking issues so the damage you get is slightly less than you expect.

With an outright drone damage bonus your target may outrun your drones but the chances of him doing that in an orbit where he's applying damage to you are fairly low, or rather the damage he's applying to you will be low since he'll have to be moving fairly fast to outrun something like a warrior (even a hobgoblin does 4200 m/s with skills, warriors do 6300)

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#460 - 2014-02-25 21:57:23 UTC
woodall wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
its very simple:

your drones will have 50% better tracking and 50% extra speed

you will have 10 drones basically

you punch an extra with the power of 4 launchers and not limited to two damage types only

if the dronebay is increased to be 25/50 you have an extra flight of lights in case you loose the others....

the tradeoff here is that drones will get less HP i can change that too with the role bonus


You are literally insane. You seem to think that its balanced having a frig do just short of 300 dps with no damage mods whatsoever (an enyo can only achieve that with void fitted and a magstab). not only do you have that much dps, but you want a huge bonus to the damage application of 2/3's of it on top. How on earth can you think that is balanced.


oh but its not insane to think in drones with 3 times their damage and HP.....that's not insane.....