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Whats considered CCP's Intellectual Property?
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Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-11-28 02:01:25 UTC
Brandon Tsero wrote:
Besides the obvious things(ships, names, etc), what else is considered CCPs intellectual property?
A friend tried to name his kid Tristan. CCP sued him. True story.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#22 - 2011-11-28 02:04:32 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Brandon Tsero wrote:
Besides the obvious things(ships, names, etc), what else is considered CCPs intellectual property?
A friend tried to name his kid Tristan. CCP sued him. True story.


A post without a Blog Link. I'm amazed, impressed, and a little tiny bit happy.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Pistha
Doomheim
#23 - 2011-11-28 02:05:14 UTC
Brandon Tsero wrote:
Besides the obvious things(ships, names, etc), what else is considered CCPs intellectual property?

ui?
overview?
etc?

thanks!

edit: For those of you wondering, I'm developing a game, an MMO, however playing eve for 6 years has greatly influenced my ideas on features and UI development.


This post asking what is CCPs intellectual property, which you wrote, is CCPs intellectual property.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#24 - 2011-11-28 04:52:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Brandon Tsero wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
All of my fanships are technically thiers.


well are they not your concepts?


They fall under the trademark laws in california to which unfourtunately I have to adhere to for any of my cases I might get invovled with. Sad

Best example would be a megaman fan character.

They all belong to capcom if capcom decides to use one of your designed charaters in likeness or name for a boss its thiers and you cannot sue the company in charge of the trademark for stealing such.

However if somewhere were to steal my artwork I could sue on my own behalf only to stop them from profiting off the work I have done (removal of content) and ccp may also piggy back on that lawsuit as well for monetary compensation.

I am not sure how they do things in Iceland but Im going to stick with what I know what happens in california courts ><.

Now if ccp stolen one of my star armageddeon ships then there will be problems because they're not eve inspired or trademarked. They're very much my own and only my own and that I can sue ccp or anyone else for but I have to be very careful to exact thefts of ideas to similary inspired ships.

I am however failing on my part and declaring each one of my fanships as trademarked properties but bleh little lazy and ccp hasnt bothered to sue me for those yet and most companies wont bother with such or at least they send a warning letter declaring you need to do otherwise.

Ultimately Im not a laywer and I dont know whats on the table really but this is by best understanding of current laws.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#25 - 2011-11-28 05:59:18 UTC
Honestly, it does not matter what the law says about IP. If a company as large as CCP takes offense at you using similar ideas to theirs, they will just bury you in court and legal fees.

Unfortunately these matters are usually decided by who has the bigger wallet.



Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2011-11-28 06:02:34 UTC
Andski wrote:
oh man you're developing an MMO that's awesome hit me up when it goes under and you're in debt
He's coding it in Visual Basic.
Ai Shun
#27 - 2011-11-28 07:15:57 UTC
Brandon Tsero wrote:
Haha i was hoping to get a GM/CCP post actually.


Then maybe you should contact them directly - perhaps through the CCP Games official website?
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#28 - 2011-11-28 09:44:02 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
Well, they let Perpetuum copy over most of EVE's mechanics and feel so that's a hint right there. Probably because it's not about spaceships and they copied over EVE's really bad stuff meaning CCP was probably laughing knowing how much trouble the Perpetuum guys got themselves into. Don't use any graphics, models or names and you should be fine.

Having said that, if you're a game developer you should probably realise a few things:

- most of the things in EVE are crappily done (especially back then), it's just saved by the awesomeness of the sandbox

- the player pool for open sandbox, pvp oriented type players is quite limited. For every person that loves EVE's playstyle there's 20 who love WOW more (which is a good thing). Result is that if you're going to try and compete for those sandbox players by making a similar type MMO you're probably going to lose out as those folks are already playing EVE. Just like trying to make a wow clone doesn't work because people who like that... play WOW.

- if you've learned anything from past releases, the best way to fail is to do something mediocre that's already been done. So being different gives a better chance of being successful.


0/10

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2011-11-28 09:52:28 UTC

You're developing an MMO.

*lol*
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#30 - 2011-11-28 11:12:49 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Brandon Tsero wrote:
Haha i was hoping to get a GM/CCP post actually.


Then maybe you should contact them directly - perhaps through the CCP Games official website?


A nice email to their Legal department would be good. Something like:

Hi,
I am in the process of making a competing internet space pixel MMO, and was wondering how much I could steal from your game before you sued me. I don't have lawyers of my own, but I'm hoping to find some who will spot me this lawsuit for the promise of future work. Given that my graphics team, Jay and Silent Bob, are working under the same pay conditions, I'm hopeful.
-Thanks, Brandon 'I wanna steal your ideas' Tsero

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
#31 - 2011-11-28 12:02:13 UTC
Why redesign the spacewheel.

If you want a seriously sweet, doable MMO of a type that hasn't be done yet, that is possible on a low budget with limited funds and staff, send me an evemail and I'll give you the idead for free.

Regardless, I do wish you well on your project and can't wait for the beta invite. :)
Take what everyone says with a grain of salt and stay true to your dream and it will happen.

Weee, I'm excited for you!

www.shipsofeve.com
Matrim Barr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2011-11-28 12:39:34 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Everything that is, you know, intellectual property. How about you hire a lawyer instead of asking in the forums?

Internet space ships is not intellectual property. Hell internet space ships and space ships in general have been around since the dawn of computing. EVE is just a very meticulous rip off of a game called "Elite". However specific creative work done by CCP - the back story, the races, the ships, the designs, the actual mechanics of the game, the way ships are "put together", etc, that all belongs to CCP.

For more detail than that you really need legal help, IP is a literal minefield.


A literal minefield? Oh frak, I'd better watch out for my legs as I walk from CQ...
Are you sure literal means what you think?
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#33 - 2011-11-28 18:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Astrid Stjerna
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Brandon Tsero wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Yes.


That's soooo detailed. Roll

I love detailed responses.

pretty much anything and everything the EvE developers made themselves and didnt buy is their intellectual property, like the carbon system is NOT theres casue it was pre-existing, but pretty much everything they amde WITH it IS their property.

but that generally only applies to things visually, since 90% of all FPS's are cookie cutter UI's adn whatnot, as long as yours is similar with its own coding adn not ripped directly from an EvE code, i do believe it would eb YOUR OWN intellectual property.

im pretty sure thats how it works, and if their is anything specific you are not quite sure about, im sure youc an always message the devs and say "hey, im making a game, and was wondering if you cared if i borrowed this feature, cause you guys were awesome with comingt up with it (making them feel smart and special ALWAYS helps whena sking things)"


To clear things up a bit:

Under Canadian law (and possibly the US, though I'm not certain), copyright applies as follows:

Quote:
Copyright applies to all original, dramatic, musical, artistic and literary works (including computer programs). It also applies to performances, communication signals and sound recordings.
(source: http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/h_wr00003.html?OpenDocument )

So, to better illustrate the above, I could make a computer game that features a space-traveller that's just seen his home planet blown up -- I just couldn't name my space-traveller Arthur Dent and have his home destroyed by the Vogons, nor could I call it 'The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy' (or anything similar, such as 'The Traveller's Guide to the Universe').

If I were to draw a picture of Megaman, however, copyright would extend to me, but only to the extent that the drawing (but not the Megaman character itself) is my original work. Thus, I could sue someone if they copied my artwork, but as I don't own Megaman, I have no grounds to sue for that.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#34 - 2011-11-28 18:03:24 UTC
Perpetuum is an almost clone of EVE.

The Old Republic IS a direct clone of WoW.

What is the defendable "intellectual property" coems down to "can they successfully sue you".

Generally, stay away from characters, races, story stuff and the like, and you're probably fine.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#35 - 2011-11-28 18:17:34 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Brandon Tsero wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Yes.


That's soooo detailed. Roll

I love detailed responses.

pretty much anything and everything the EvE developers made themselves and didnt buy is their intellectual property, like the carbon system is NOT theres casue it was pre-existing, but pretty much everything they amde WITH it IS their property.

but that generally only applies to things visually, since 90% of all FPS's are cookie cutter UI's adn whatnot, as long as yours is similar with its own coding adn not ripped directly from an EvE code, i do believe it would eb YOUR OWN intellectual property.

im pretty sure thats how it works, and if their is anything specific you are not quite sure about, im sure youc an always message the devs and say "hey, im making a game, and was wondering if you cared if i borrowed this feature, cause you guys were awesome with comingt up with it (making them feel smart and special ALWAYS helps whena sking things)"


To clear things up a bit:

Under Canadian law (and possibly the US, though I'm not certain), copyright applies as follows:

Quote:
Copyright applies to all original, dramatic, musical, artistic and literary works (including computer programs). It also applies to performances, communication signals and sound recordings.
(source: http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/h_wr00003.html?OpenDocument )

So, to better illustrate the above, I could make a computer game that features a space-traveller that's just seen his home planet blown up -- I just couldn't name my space-traveller Arthur Dent and have his home destroyed by the Vogons, nor could I call it 'The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy' (or anything similar, such as 'The Traveller's Guide to the Universe').

If I were to draw a picture of Megaman, however, copyright would extend to me, but only to the extent that the drawing (but not the Megaman character itself) is my original work. Thus, I could sue someone if they copied my artwork, but as I don't own Megaman, I have no grounds to sue for that.


Bascially the same rules for me as well I could sue if somone copy pasted my picutres, but I do not own the fan object in question thus if ccp where to make a model very similar to it I'd havent the right to sue them.

I just find it funny I have to redesign something when ccp pushes something out similar to what I had only to further push my designs away from what is already established so I dont get lauded for making a fan ship that looked exactly what they already had. It only happened 3 times so far though so not a big problem.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Mara Villoso
Long Jump.
#36 - 2011-11-28 19:12:44 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
If I were to draw a picture of Megaman, however, copyright would extend to me, but only to the extent that the drawing (but not the Megaman character itself) is my original work. Thus, I could sue someone if they copied my artwork, but as I don't own Megaman, I have no grounds to sue for that.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. The copyright wouldn't extend to you because, by definition, Megaman is not your original work. If you or anyone else took the picture you drew and tried to sell it or license it, that person could be sued by Megaman's owners. The only person you could sue would be Megaman's owners if they took your work and tried to make money off it. I don't think you'd be able to make the argument "hey that guy stole the stuff I stole" and get away with it, not least because you'd have to show damages and all you would be able to demonstrate is your liability to Megaman's creators.

BUT, a lot depends on the exact context of "your drawing" of Megaman. Warhol's use of the Campbell soup can is a good example of the reappropriation of images. However, the issue comes down to one of what could be interpreted by the viewer of the artwork (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appropriation_(art)). Anything "likely to cause confusion" about who exactly is responsible for the image would be infringement and you'd be liable for damages. There are very few uses of what you're describing that would pass that test. You could try to use a "parody" defense by changing key details but leaving enough that its clear who you're referring to (e.g., Itchy and Scratchy are satirical representations of Tom and Jerry) . Or you might go the route of Family Guy/Simpsons/South Park, which have all used each other's characters to mock the particular style of the others. But you'd still probably get sued (I think the creators of all 3 shows agreed to the satire described). While Warhol got away with a lot, he ended up settling out of court with a lot of different people. Check out that wiki article. Very interesting stuff.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-11-28 19:16:05 UTC
The actual code, script and art assets are CCP's intellectual property and is protected by copyright.

Other things, such as the UI, game mechanics, design philosophy, business practices, etc etc... are NOT protect by copyright. If CCP wishes to claim any of these as their own intellectual property, they must protect it via patents which are NOT automatically awarded.

So Perpetuum is 100% able to copy CCP's UI provided that CCP did not patent it, and so long as they do not copy CCP's code. If, however, CCP HAS patented their UI, then it is their intellectual property.
Generals4
#38 - 2011-11-28 19:17:31 UTC
Brandon Tsero wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Yes.


That's soooo detailed. Roll

I love detailed responses.


If there is one thing i learned about intellectual property in the world of informatics is that it is VERY easy to bypass. Just change bits of codes there alter some stuff here and bam they can't do anything to you. It is extremely hard to enforce intellectual property in this line of work.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#39 - 2011-11-28 19:18:29 UTC
Mara Villoso wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
If I were to draw a picture of Megaman, however, copyright would extend to me, but only to the extent that the drawing (but not the Megaman character itself) is my original work. Thus, I could sue someone if they copied my artwork, but as I don't own Megaman, I have no grounds to sue for that.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. The copyright wouldn't extend to you because, by definition, Megaman is not your original work. If you or anyone else took the picture you drew and tried to sell it or license it, that person could be sued by Megaman's owners. The only person you could sue would be Megaman's owners if they took your work and tried to make money off it. I don't think you'd be able to make the argument "hey that guy stole the stuff I stole" and get away with it, not least because you'd have to show damages and all you would be able to demonstrate is your liability to Megaman's creators.

BUT, a lot depends on the exact context of "your drawing" of Megaman. Warhol's use of the Campbell soup can is a good example of the reappropriation of images. However, the issue comes down to one of what could be interpreted by the viewer of the artwork (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appropriation_(art)). Anything "likely to cause confusion" about who exactly is responsible for the image would be infringement and you'd be liable for damages. There are very few uses of what you're describing that would pass that test. You could try to use a "parody" defense by changing key details but leaving enough that its clear who you're referring to (e.g., Itchy and Scratchy are satirical representations of Tom and Jerry) . Or you might go the route of Family Guy/Simpsons/South Park, which have all used each other's characters to mock the particular style of the others. But you'd still probably get sued (I think the creators of all 3 shows agreed to the satire described). While Warhol got away with a lot, he ended up settling out of court with a lot of different people. Check out that wiki article. Very interesting stuff.


Why cant smart people look that good in real life, sheesh.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#40 - 2011-11-28 19:24:02 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Brandon Tsero wrote:
So basically if it gets coded by ourselves, its ours?

you make ti, its yours, unless your under contract to amke it for someone else.

but eyah, so long as you code everything yourself and dont copy/paste steal code from EvE you should be pretty safe.


In real world doesn't work like that.

1st, 2nd,3rd and 4th follow legal steps to make it be recognised has your creation.

Then if someone copy what you do, yes you can say it's yours because your product is something LEGALLY known has being your property.

Everything else, I can copy whatever I want and say it's me who did it, how can you prove it's not mine?