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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#421 - 2014-02-25 21:12:37 UTC
IMHO +10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness per level is too good. You should definitely consider reducing it to 5%, or ad least 7,5%.

Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows...
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#422 - 2014-02-25 21:14:10 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
with only two it may open them up to being targeted for Ewar



which is exactly what drone ships are supposed to not get done by. if not ewar, then actually kiting the drones within web range could be a thing. it's dumb, and I don't get the point in it at all. it seems to be just there to give the ship 'flavour' or something.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#423 - 2014-02-25 21:14:27 UTC
Looks good all around. +1
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#424 - 2014-02-25 21:14:53 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
another version for the guristas:

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone damage and hitpoints

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
10% to rocket and light missile max velocity

Role Bonus:
50% bonus to drones, rockets and light missile damage


Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG(+5), 180 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100 / 500(-82) / 620(-3)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 380(+30) / 212000 (-22375) / 1.79 (+.29)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320(+33) / 3.8(+.31) / 965000 / 5.17s(+.42)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 15
Signature radius: 40

the ship gets at full lvl V skills a 100% of damage for drones and a 100% bonus to missiles, but sacrifices its 4% resistance bonus. as compensation the ship gets a buffer in line with the rattlesnake, i mean, gets large buffer for its ship class, in this case a more than 1000 shield HP


Uh. I think that is a little too much damage. How about making the Caldari bonus the damage bonus and the role bonus a velocity a to missiles and drones.


something like this?

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drones, rocket and light missile damage

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
50% bonus to drones, rockets and light missile max velocity


Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG(+5), 180 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100 / 500(-82) / 620(-3)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 380(+30) / 212000 (-22375) / 1.79 (+.29)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320(+33) / 3.8(+.31) / 965000 / 5.17s(+.42)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 15
Signature radius: 40


The double damage and resists bonus is a bit too much too. I was thinking something like:

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone damage and hitpoints

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
10% to rocket and light missile damage

Role Bonus:
50% bonus to drones, rockets and light missile max velocity
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#425 - 2014-02-25 21:16:10 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:


The double damage and resists bonus is a bit too much too. I was thinking something like:

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone damage and hitpoints

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
10% to rocket and light missile damage

Role Bonus:
50% bonus to drones, rockets and light missile max velocity




hmmmmmm it makes sense yes, then we can put the 4% shield resistance bonus to the sanshas
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#426 - 2014-02-25 21:19:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
5% drone tracking and velocity to light combat drones (was 5m3 Drone Bay Capacity per level)

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to light combat drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity)
100% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage

Slot layout: 2H (-1) , 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG(+5), 180 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 830(+33) / 500(-82) / 620(-3)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 380(+30) / 212000 (-22375) / 1.79 (+.29)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320(+33) / 3.8(+.31) / 965000 / 5.17s(+.42)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(-10) / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 15
Signature radius: 40

the gallente bonus will be needed for ogres/hammerheads on rattlesnake/gila .. and its thematic with gallente ..
the damage ratio will be more 60/40 i think towards drones but at least the missile damage is useful now
and drone ships always has -1 slot these should be no different

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Lugalzagezi666
#427 - 2014-02-25 21:21:18 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:

You can push a cruor to 17km optimal pretty easily, with 150 dps (and you also have 2 drones now).
And you wont even need a FN web to do this.


Sure, with overheat and dc tank. Gz, you have now 100m ship that is worse than retri or slicer, but thanks to the web it can at least run from them.
And you may as well ditch that neut/nos bonus completely, because any time you are in range to use it, you are webbed, scrammed and dying. Not that you will have cpu to actually fit that neuts/nos in such gank setup (why does ccp keeps giving laser frigs these "troll" highslots...).

Anyway, be careful with it in current meta, because afaik 17k is also range of skirmish boosted t2 web.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#428 - 2014-02-25 21:24:04 UTC
new sansha concept is an abortion without agility...otherwise its a slow drag racer with no ability to apply damage. Straight line flying hooray! No tank bonus...so def not meant for brawling. If you shield extend it the sig will blow up anyhow...

*jackiechandoesntevenknow.jpg*

I'll give it a try but if I die because of webs I blame CCP Rise.

Cruor: say hello to a sentinel that webs you instead of TD.
Worm: DPS machine
Daredevil: same as it ever was
Dramiel: Already had the nerf bat hit it upside the head and is fine.

So cruisers:

My predictions:

Phantasm: similar treatment to succubus AB bonus, move one utility high to low slots...tweak other attributes meaninglessly except base speed which should get a boost.

What should be done in adddition? 4th Turrret hard point and the grid to fit it and much...much more cap
(Slot layout 5/6/4)+1 over all slots. One would hope a special bonus like the ashimmu will get with nos's for the phantasm's agility so the AB is useful rather than being an easier to fit 100MN. I want to be able to urn you bastards!

Ashimmu: a loki but cheaper (not by much) and it can nos/neut you efficiently.
I like it, and yet...why do we need more long webs I question...it feels like a ubiquitous thing now and sansha are just getting fecal matter dumped on them by other factions.

Vigilant: still gonna eat face and take names...amazing tactical fleet webifier.

Cynabal: no idea...maybe give it slightly better capacitor while hitting its agility with a cricket bat to the knee - it should not be out pacing interceptors nor having the ability to hit warp so fast. Just broken as all heck.


BS's:

Nightmare: anything I can do machariel can do better - why bother

Bhaalgorn: Still gonna be the same old monster

Vindicator: Same with minor adjustments

Rattler: Improved drone efficiency will make remote repping your drones in pve very easy and convenient. Damage increase for pvp will make it an interesting ship to try out...but as bait or ambush ship it should do well.

Mach: What they'll do: agility nerf (maybe)

What I want: adjust model so its not an OP bumping machine with stupid high agility. Top speed is ok...just slow that acceleration down.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#429 - 2014-02-25 21:24:34 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
WTB: old phantasm skin




!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It looks so ******* cool with the oil slick look

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#430 - 2014-02-25 21:24:45 UTC
There are some really terrible ideas about the worm here, you should all be ashamed because it shows that you haven't actually done any math at all.

Most of what you're all proposing is actually worse and weaker than what Rise has listed.



Also all the daredevil nasayers: Leave it alone.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#431 - 2014-02-25 21:26:01 UTC
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:

You can push a cruor to 17km optimal pretty easily, with 150 dps (and you also have 2 drones now).
And you wont even need a FN web to do this.


Sure, with overheat and dc tank. Gz, you have now 100m ship that is worse than retri or slicer, but thanks to the web it can at least run from them.
And you may as well ditch that neut/nos bonus completely, because any time you are in range to use it, you are webbed, scrammed and dying. Not that you will have cpu to actually fit that neuts/nos in such gank setup (why does ccp keeps giving laser frigs these "troll" highslots...).

Anyway, be careful with it in current meta, because afaik 17k is also range of skirmish boosted t2 web.



Thats unheated. Also, with drones it gets another 40 dps.

If you do get scrammed, you can empty the cap of most frigates in 5-10s.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#432 - 2014-02-25 21:26:46 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

Also all the daredevil nasayers: Leave it alone.


why so bad
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#433 - 2014-02-25 21:28:39 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

Also all the daredevil nasayers: Leave it alone.


why so bad


dont be scared of it, its got like, 10 hit points, just break its glass jaw.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#434 - 2014-02-25 21:29:10 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:


  • I really don't get the Guristas theme change: OK, sure, the ships will do as much damage using two drones as an un-bonused ship would do with six, but you're still doing (and absorbing!) LESS damage at the end of the day than a bonused drone boat does with five drones

A bonused ship does 7.5 effective drones worth of effective damage and has the same in hitpoints.
The revised worm does 8 effective drones worth while increasing the survivability of individual drones even more significantly.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#435 - 2014-02-25 21:30:08 UTC
While the setup with the Worm is kind of weird, I can still get behind it, even though I would have just preferred going with the normal dmg/hp/tracking bonuses. The buff in fitting is also VERY nice, to be clear; good on that, and continue it with the Gila when that gets worked on. It would be nice to see an addition of a launcher slot, since it's stil behind the kessie in missile damage output. perhaps that and a fast firing rate would work better?

To clarify, I DO like what you're trying to do with the blood raider boats, but there is a severe issue that needs to be raised: nos range. The idea with switching to special nos is brilliant; it negates the need for a cap booster, but if you're going to focus on web range, you should also pull nos range out a bit, which would be a fairly difficult thing to do considering the inherent number of bonuses and how that limits. My recommendation? keep the old web bonus for the cruor, but keep the nos bonus; the Ashimmu looks like it'd be good with this considering it doesn't have similar slot limitations and nos range on it should be fine at 12km, which is past scram range. I am pleased with how you're looking to get it set up.

What are you doing with sansha? Are you trying to focus on oversized AB? I mean, I'm not exactly complaining, it's an interesting idea, but you would be much better served by swapping that out for an optimal range range bonus, and keeping them a strictly laser-focused weapon platform. Dropping a high for a low is very nice, and I approve of how that will improve the fitting, but I would like to make an interesting proposition: Go both slots. Part of sansha lore is equal viability with armor or shield tanking, so if you avoid having any utility slots and focusing on strictly ship performance over utility, you can have a very strong and efficient line of laser platforms, which would be more reflective of Sansha being only surpassed by the Jove in regards to technological progress.

Not touching the DD is good; serpentis are in a VERY good spot right now, and the webs aren't really overpowered; you're just filling the same role as you do with the guns with grouping their effectiveness; 1 web instead of two needed.

I had an idea for angels that might be an interesting and effective way to separate them from minmatar. Try going with a 5% tracking speed bonus across the board for each of the ships effectively, but upping the falloff to 15 or even 20%, depending on where the line gets drawn at overpowered. I do think they should also get a larger increase in cap regen speed, especially the Cynabal since they're so speed-focused, easier cap stability with mwd should be a must. I think range projection is a great idea to go with, and seeing the dram back on top as kite king would be a welcome sight in pvp circles, and you shouldn't draw too much ire with the cruor balancing it. ;)
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#436 - 2014-02-25 21:30:12 UTC
please get rid of the kin/thermal bonus, even the kinetic bonus for caldari hulls is awful........
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#437 - 2014-02-25 21:30:13 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

Also all the daredevil nasayers: Leave it alone.


why so bad


dont be scared of it, its got like, 10 hit points, just break its glass jaw.


can't, I'm 90% webbed at 18km and dying to 150mm railguns and/or blap dreads.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#438 - 2014-02-25 21:33:35 UTC
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage

dronebay is 25/25 still

no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing....
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#439 - 2014-02-25 21:34:53 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

Also all the daredevil nasayers: Leave it alone.


why so bad


dont be scared of it, its got like, 10 hit points, just break its glass jaw.


can't, I'm 90% webbed at 18km and dying to 150mm railguns and/or blap dreads.


Fly a sentinel

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#440 - 2014-02-25 21:35:40 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage

dronebay is 25/25 still

no limitations in its dronebay no limitations in the drone type, it should be a general thing....


This is literal garbage compared to whats proposed, just stop

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.