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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#401 - 2014-02-25 20:51:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:


Cruor doesnt have the range on guns and neither neuts/nos to use its web bonus. Want to deal 100 scorch dps with pulses - you have to go into scram range. Want to neut your target so you actually can break its tank with 100dps - you have to go DEEP inside scram range. And only thing that awaits you there is being scrammed and counterwebbed and losing any mobility advantage you had (with 90% web).

The only ships it can help you with are nano kiters - that will damp you to oblivion anyway.



You can push a cruor to 17km optimal pretty easily, with 150 dps (and you also have 2 drones now).

And you wont even need a FN web to do this.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#402 - 2014-02-25 20:52:15 UTC
following the last iteration of the worm, since gurista ships would loose their resistance bonus, it would be cool to give it to the sanshas

SUCCUBUS

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
125% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)


Slot layout: 3H(-1), 4M, 3L(+1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 44 PWG(-14), 170 CPU(-5)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(+41) / 550(+6) / 540(+23)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 450(+15) / 210000 (-24375) / 2.14 (+.09)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340(+53) / 3.5(-.35) / 965000 / 4.68s(-.4)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 32km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 33(+2)
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#403 - 2014-02-25 20:52:41 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
To anybody complaining about the Worm.

Stop.


Full stop.

Run the numbers on it first before you complain. Think about what its going to be like using faction drones on your pirate shipo, or rather don't think and let me tell you what its going to be like:

Augmented Warriors

Shield -464
Armor -692
Structure -1040

2196 total hp and Damage output per drone, 24 kinetic and 40 explosive every 4 seconds.

Republic Fleet Warriors

Shield -616
Armor -920
Structure-576

2112 Total Hp and Damage output per drone, 60 explosive damage every 4 seconds.


Those are serious can's of whup ass. You have drones with the hit points of a frigate who punch extremely hard. You are effectively getting 8 drones worth of damage from 2 drones, and if you're engaged in one on one combat with another frigate, he'd be insane to go after your drones because it has two thousand hit points.

He would essentially have to kill you 6 times if he tried to kill off your drones first (once for each of your 5 drones and then once for you).

You should literally have zero complaints about that ship, its nothing short of amazing. Even for PVE, its absolutely amazing, as the drones will tank like a boss. In fact each of your light drones will have nearly twice the Hit points of its relative Heavy drone counterpart (above example - Beserker II has 1459 hp).

Let that sink in for a bit and think about what they're offering you in the new and 100% improved Worm.


I like the concept. I'm a bit afraid the weapon system on the worm itself maybe too weak.

I want to try out the ship, as they made it a bit of a brawler, but dunno about the 2 launchers vs 3.

Yaay!!!!
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#404 - 2014-02-25 20:52:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Silivar Karkun wrote:
another version for the guristas:

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone damage and hitpoints

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
10% to rocket and light missile max velocity

Role Bonus:
50% bonus to drones, rockets and light missile damage


Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG(+5), 180 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100 / 500(-82) / 620(-3)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 380(+30) / 212000 (-22375) / 1.79 (+.29)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320(+33) / 3.8(+.31) / 965000 / 5.17s(+.42)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 15
Signature radius: 40

the ship gets at full lvl V skills a 100% of damage for drones and a 100% bonus to missiles, but sacrifices its 4% resistance bonus. as compensation the ship gets a buffer in line with the rattlesnake, i mean, gets large buffer for its ship class, in this case a more than 1000 shield HP


For the love of Cerberus - the guardian of my soul, stop shitposting hulls. Step away from the keyboard for an hour or twelve.

The Worm is epic as is.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#405 - 2014-02-25 20:53:40 UTC
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
NinjaStyle wrote:
the Cruor will still be crap with the short neut range there is no meaning in the web range when you have to be within 10km just to neut anyways.


I heard about this module called a "MWD"...

You should check it out. You know, before you make baseless assumptions.


On another note, the Dramiel could use a buff. It's not nearly as good any more...


That changes nothing about what he said.

Cruor doesnt have the range on guns and neither neuts/nos to use its web bonus. Want to deal 100 scorch dps with pulses - you have to go into scram range. Want to neut your target so you actually can break its tank with 100dps - you have to go DEEP inside scram range. And only thing that awaits you there is being scrammed and counterwebbed and losing any mobility advantage you had (with 90% web).

The only ships it can help you with are nano kiters - that will damp you to oblivion anyway.



Thats why having bonused neut drones would be awesome :D
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#406 - 2014-02-25 20:57:53 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
another version for the guristas:

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone damage and hitpoints

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
10% to rocket and light missile max velocity

Role Bonus:
50% bonus to drones, rockets and light missile damage


Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG(+5), 180 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100 / 500(-82) / 620(-3)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 380(+30) / 212000 (-22375) / 1.79 (+.29)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320(+33) / 3.8(+.31) / 965000 / 5.17s(+.42)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 15
Signature radius: 40

the ship gets at full lvl V skills a 100% of damage for drones and a 100% bonus to missiles, but sacrifices its 4% resistance bonus. as compensation the ship gets a buffer in line with the rattlesnake, i mean, gets large buffer for its ship class, in this case a more than 1000 shield HP


Uh. I think that is a little too much damage. How about making the Caldari bonus the damage bonus and the role bonus a velocity a to missiles and drones.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#407 - 2014-02-25 20:57:54 UTC
no im not gonna stop, those bonuses proposed for the guristas and the sanshas are awful, it will make them even less used than before.......
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#408 - 2014-02-25 20:58:19 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
To anybody complaining about the Worm.

Stop.


Full stop.

Run the numbers on it first before you complain. Think about what its going to be like using faction drones on your pirate shipo, or rather don't think and let me tell you what its going to be like:

Augmented Warriors

Shield -464
Armor -692
Structure -1040

2196 total hp and Damage output per drone, 24 kinetic and 40 explosive every 4 seconds.

Republic Fleet Warriors

Shield -616
Armor -920
Structure-576

2112 Total Hp and Damage output per drone, 60 explosive damage every 4 seconds.


Those are serious can's of whup ass. You have drones with the hit points of a frigate who punch extremely hard. You are effectively getting 8 drones worth of damage from 2 drones, and if you're engaged in one on one combat with another frigate, he'd be insane to go after your drones because it has two thousand hit points.

He would essentially have to kill you 6 times if he tried to kill off your drones first (once for each of your 5 drones and then once for you).

You should literally have zero complaints about that ship, its nothing short of amazing. Even for PVE, its absolutely amazing, as the drones will tank like a boss. In fact each of your light drones will have nearly twice the Hit points of its relative Heavy drone counterpart (above example - Beserker II has 1459 hp).

Let that sink in for a bit and think about what they're offering you in the new and 100% improved Worm.

EDIT: Drone Durability 5 will raise those totals by about 500 each, Damage totals will also go up 25% more as well


Cant argue with that... though my problem is with the missile bonus. .. what do you think about it?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Meta Reloaded
#409 - 2014-02-25 20:59:13 UTC
I like most of these changes. The AB bonus on the Succubus and NOS bonus on the Cruor are unique and useful, but I have my doubts regarding the Worm (and other Guristas ship) bonuses. The Kinetic/Therm missile damage bonus is downright bad and simply pidgeonholes it into using those two damage types with any effect. The 2 drone idea is interesting, but is a little odd to me. I'm my opinion, the Worm would be better served with 4 Launchers, a damage application bonus, 1 less low, and then the drones as you suggested.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#410 - 2014-02-25 20:59:28 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
another version for the guristas:

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone damage and hitpoints

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
10% to rocket and light missile max velocity

Role Bonus:
50% bonus to drones, rockets and light missile damage


Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG(+5), 180 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100 / 500(-82) / 620(-3)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 380(+30) / 212000 (-22375) / 1.79 (+.29)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320(+33) / 3.8(+.31) / 965000 / 5.17s(+.42)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 15
Signature radius: 40

the ship gets at full lvl V skills a 100% of damage for drones and a 100% bonus to missiles, but sacrifices its 4% resistance bonus. as compensation the ship gets a buffer in line with the rattlesnake, i mean, gets large buffer for its ship class, in this case a more than 1000 shield HP


Uh. I think that is a little too much damage. How about making the Caldari bonus the damage bonus and the role bonus a velocity a to missiles and drones.


something like this?

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drones, rocket and light missile damage

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
50% bonus to drones, rockets and light missile max velocity


Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG(+5), 180 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100 / 500(-82) / 620(-3)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 380(+30) / 212000 (-22375) / 1.79 (+.29)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320(+33) / 3.8(+.31) / 965000 / 5.17s(+.42)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 15
Signature radius: 40
Majszi
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#411 - 2014-02-25 20:59:50 UTC
amazing game content guys again, amazing!
i cant wait for it !!4

Lol
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#412 - 2014-02-25 20:59:51 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:


Cant argue with that... though my problem is with the missile bonus. .. what do you think about it?


Its an extra chunk of damage, which I think some people will choose to forgo for neuts. Its a good fitting decision.
Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#413 - 2014-02-25 21:03:52 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 5m3 Drone Bay Capacity per level)




I'm sorry, but what exactly is the precedent/justification for tying a missile bonus to a Gallente ship skill?!? Maybe I'm just missing something huge, but the only Gallente ship I'm aware of that boasts any kind of missile bonus is the stealth bomber (for obvious reasons, it has to be). This just smells like a "we're changing the stats around to make them fit; who cares if they make any sense" kind of change.
woodall
Nemesis-Theory
#414 - 2014-02-25 21:03:55 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
another version for the guristas:

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone damage and hitpoints

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
10% to rocket and light missile max velocity

Role Bonus:
50% bonus to drones, rockets and light missile damage


Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG(+5), 180 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100 / 500(-82) / 620(-3)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 380(+30) / 212000 (-22375) / 1.79 (+.29)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320(+33) / 3.8(+.31) / 965000 / 5.17s(+.42)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 15
Signature radius: 40

the ship gets at full lvl V skills a 100% of damage for drones and a 100% bonus to missiles, but sacrifices its 4% resistance bonus. as compensation the ship gets a buffer in line with the rattlesnake, i mean, gets large buffer for its ship class, in this case a more than 1000 shield HP


You should probably run the numbers for this man. 100% damage bonus to a full set of lights will result in 200 dps on just the drones, then add in 2 launchers with a 50% damage bonus and they add in another 60 or so dps. Youre now doing 260 dps without any damage mods at all which is roughly the same as a glass cannon enyo fit.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#415 - 2014-02-25 21:05:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
MeBiatch wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
To anybody complaining about the Worm.

Stop.


Full stop.

Run the numbers on it first before you complain. Think about what its going to be like using faction drones on your pirate shipo, or rather don't think and let me tell you what its going to be like:

Augmented Warriors

Shield -464
Armor -692
Structure -1040

2196 total hp and Damage output per drone, 24 kinetic and 40 explosive every 4 seconds.

Republic Fleet Warriors

Shield -616
Armor -920
Structure-576

2112 Total Hp and Damage output per drone, 60 explosive damage every 4 seconds.


Those are serious can's of whup ass. You have drones with the hit points of a frigate who punch extremely hard. You are effectively getting 8 drones worth of damage from 2 drones, and if you're engaged in one on one combat with another frigate, he'd be insane to go after your drones because it has two thousand hit points.

He would essentially have to kill you 6 times if he tried to kill off your drones first (once for each of your 5 drones and then once for you).

You should literally have zero complaints about that ship, its nothing short of amazing. Even for PVE, its absolutely amazing, as the drones will tank like a boss. In fact each of your light drones will have nearly twice the Hit points of its relative Heavy drone counterpart (above example - Beserker II has 1459 hp).

Let that sink in for a bit and think about what they're offering you in the new and 100% improved Worm.

EDIT: Drone Durability 5 will raise those totals by about 500 each, Damage totals will also go up 25% more as well


Cant argue with that... though my problem is with the missile bonus. .. what do you think about it?


I have to admit im a bit meh about it only being missiles because I hate light missiles and think they're a bit overpowered on the tracking disruptor fit or damp fit condors in lowsec, and would like to see it apply to rockets as well so that when they finally get around to obliterating the light missile the ship doesn't suffer too much but with drones like that and its natural tankiness I'm willing to overlook it. With a NOS fit to run a local rep its got some serious potential to give ships a headache.

woodall wrote:


You should probably run the numbers for this man. 100% damage bonus to a full set of lights will result in 200 dps on just the drones, then add in 2 launchers with a 50% damage bonus and they add in another 60 or so dps. Youre now doing 260 dps without any damage mods at all which is roughly the same as a glass cannon enyo fit.


Glass cannon Enyos can break 400 dps, and from what I'm looking at this Worm will be around 270-300 dps without any damage mods.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#416 - 2014-02-25 21:07:57 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

...
note: Energy Vampires operate as though your capacitor is empty (this wording is work in progress)
...


Secondary capacitor store, with a one-way feed to the main store, allows Energy Vampires to drain target till it is dry
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#417 - 2014-02-25 21:08:34 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
would like to see it apply to rockets as well
.


It does apply to rockets
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#418 - 2014-02-25 21:09:02 UTC
Sanshas need a bonus that makes them unique but an AB bonus is strange for a caldari bonus, so its either an EWAR bonus or a shield related one.......

same for the Guristas, that kinetic/thermal bonus is just bad, it needs to be a real gallente related bonus, and the best approach should be a drone related bonus.......

the problem is that we need a drone bonus that hasnt been covered, but we cannot leave the missile bonuses uncovered
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#419 - 2014-02-25 21:11:02 UTC
There is nothing wrong about the proposed bonus to worm drones. It will make for an interesting alternative to other drone ships. The drones will be less susceptible to smartbombs, but with only two it may open them up to being targeted for Ewar, especially if that trend continues up to the battleship level, where the sentries will have tanks that are not insignificant. I also have some bizarre thoughts of remote tracking links and such from fleetmates to make up for the omni nerf...

I dont care for the missle bonus staying under the Gallente tag. It just feels wrong to me
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#420 - 2014-02-25 21:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
another:

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone, rocket and light missile max velocity

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone, rocket and light missile damage

dronebay is 25/25 still