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Dust Mercenary Teams Infiltrating Titans
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-02-25 17:15:37 UTC
I think the FPS style gameplay just won't mix with Eve space combat, how would this work in a big battle with 10% TiDi? DUST players are now in Matrix stylee bullet time? They'd never miss a shot then! Massive combat ships like this would have many subsystems for defence already that simply aren't modeled in the game as it's unnecessary.

What you are proposing is the equivalent of sending a motorboat full of marines across the ocean in the Battle of Jutland to board a Battleship performing evasive manouvres. Your motorboat somehow pulls alongside the BS, breach its 16" thick face hardened steel plate that can stop a 1-ton armour piercing shell (which by the way are falling around your ears whilst you're doing this). Then once aboard you would fight your way through the sealed bulkheads that can stop a magazine fire and kill all the marines on board before trying to do some damage.

There's a good reason this never happened once ships got past wood and canvas. It simply isn't feasible.

I think the two games are just too different to be able to integrate in any meaningful way
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-02-25 17:18:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Dolorous Tremmens
Vipre Morte wrote:


- Many space battles are fast, but not the ones which I'm talking about here.
- I don't see the problem with mixing F2P and pay-to-play players.


Alright, in that Ti-Di battle, when and where do the transport ships enter the fight? During TI-DI, everything is Ti-Di'd
so your transport ships's flight will be slowed down as well. are they there, Before the fight and therefore ti-di begins? Do I have to pre-hire console jockeys to "defend" my ship? will they be there when the time comes? They might not be needed. The ones waiting for the fight, will they stick around for the blueballs?

Ok, sure, everyone can defend their own titan with their own merc team, cause they'll be waiting, while in a space battle, to fire up that PS3 ( the only game console that plays dust) that they probably don't have, don't want and would never buy, especially for a f2p game. I'm not buying crap to play crap to defend something against freemium players that I've worked hard to build and fly in a game I pay to play.

Vipre Morte wrote:

"EVE is about space, Dust is about planets" --> How close-minded."I spent lots of time skilling and paying for my ship!" --> Cool story. The game changes, you shouldn't resist change.


I don't want a good game tainted by a failed product being mixed in, ad hominem statements aside. I roll with all the changes made to eve well enough. This would not be a change, this would be a one sided gimmick provided for people that produce and consume nothing in eve, and are invulnerable to the ethos of eve: that you are safe in station, and nowhere else. Whats more, it would again take away from actually fixing and working on eve, while trying to satisfy people that are playing a free game. Change is not always good, and this change would be incredibly bad.

Vipre Morte wrote:

"You want to PvE my PvP" --> Not at all! It has the option of being PvE or PvP (Titan pilot makes the rules), and even then it's encompassed inside a giant PvP fight. This requires a little different thinking than you're used to.
+
I would like future warfare in EVE to involve ships that launch small pods that penetrate the outer hull of a large ship. These pods contain a small team of Dust mercenaries. They battle PvE style through the ship, achieving small but increasingly better damage against the capital, supercapital, or titan in battle. Let's say the first stage is easiest, overloading a shield generator causing a 5% loss of shield recharge rate for the ship. But the next level is harder, granting a bigger bonus. Ultimately, if they team is lucky enough to reach the final stage kilometers deep into the ship, they could disable the entire shield array, or remove the ability to jump out for x-number of hours.

Emphasis mine.
Vipre Morte wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Explain how the boarding parties get through shield, armour and structure systems strong enough to survive multiple doomsday hits.

That's a very good point. I'm thinking the infiltration pods can be hand-waved as being Jovian tech, meaning they are special. =)
It actually doesn't really matter what fictional nonsense CCP comes up with to explain it, in my opinion.

Ah, just one of those "make it so" posts. No explainiation needed, just space magic. Very short sighted, and wearing rose tinted glasses to boot. Any mechanic permitted will be abused, and this introduces more than could be reasonably tested and balanced, and what is more this idea does not fill a niche or satisfy a need, apart from console jockeys wanting to kill a ship worth money while playing a game worth nothing.

Get some Eve. Make it yours.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2014-02-25 20:25:16 UTC
Vipre Morte wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

Explain why titan pilots should have no way whatsoever of actively defending themselves. Buying upgrades to what are essentially rats and hiring mercs do NOT do this, at all.


First you explain how anybody could hope to win in a fight against 24 titans if they only have 22. See how this is a balance thing against supercap fights being purely a numbers game.

So it does seem slightly unfair to Titan pilots, but they will get the upper hand in every infiltration, even skilling and upgrading to where it is near impossible to infiltrate. Also, they effects against them from these mercenaries won't be as crazy as "we sent some mercs, they shot some dudes and the whole ship blew up." Just minor things to help the fight in tiny ways.

Admit it, this would add some dimension and excitement to the 10% TiDi day-long supercap fights.



Allies, more dreads, better fits, better DD focus, more supercarriers, better tactics...

22 vs 24 isn't the problem. 100 vs 10 is the problem. Roll


It renders titan pilots, that is, the owners of ships that cost 100 billion plus, completely and utterly unable to do anything whatsoever to actively defend their asset. You don't see this as a problem. I may not be a titan pilot, but I am a cap pilot, and I can see that being totally unable to do ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to defend yourself in your big ship is a BAD THING.


And your justification for the 12 year old console kiddies being able to get there in the first place literally being 'a wizard did it' says everything that needs to be said about the quality of your idea.

Get the **** out.
Vipre Morte
Team JK
#24 - 2014-02-25 20:44:24 UTC
To the many questions about how a ship infiltration would work in a TiDi battle, they would operate at normal speed. To keep from dozens of infiltration attempts happening every "EVE minute" just remember that the ship in TiDi space is what needs to re-launch an attack onto the big ship, which may not have a good percentage of success, plus you could involve a cool-down timer to prevent abusing that mechanic.
Vipre Morte
Team JK
#25 - 2014-02-25 20:46:42 UTC
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:
some stuff

Thank you for your opinion on this. There are obviously things that would need to be ironed out.

Danika Princip wrote:
some mean things

I think you need to calm down -- this is just a game.
Vipre Morte
Team JK
#26 - 2014-02-25 20:53:34 UTC
Sentamon wrote:

A similar idea would allow small ships to take down caps and higher. Think of Star Wars attacks on the Death Star as an example where a small fleet of fighters can destroy or severely weaken an insanely overpowered death star or supercarier. This would play well in EVE and very well in the future Valkyrie.


My mind totally went there, too. It's a perfect precedence in the sci-fi world of an enemy's ship being so large that the most logical attack, if you can't afford an even bigger ship, is to find the cracks and weaknesses you can exploit with something small.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#27 - 2014-02-25 20:54:22 UTC
Hah. I totally put this in the one line bad idea thread months ago.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2014-02-25 20:54:53 UTC
Vipre Morte wrote:

I think you need to calm down -- this is just a game.



Which you are, apparently, determined to drive people out of.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#29 - 2014-02-25 21:05:30 UTC
Vipre Morte wrote:
Sentamon wrote:

A similar idea would allow small ships to take down caps and higher. Think of Star Wars attacks on the Death Star as an example where a small fleet of fighters can destroy or severely weaken an insanely overpowered death star or supercarier. This would play well in EVE and very well in the future Valkyrie.


My mind totally went there, too. It's a perfect precedence in the sci-fi world of an enemy's ship being so large that the most logical attack, if you can't afford an even bigger ship, is to find the cracks and weaknesses you can exploit with something small.


Sci-Fi is so full of ridiculous holes in mechanic or plot for the purpose of creating a plot or setting. Anything and everything can be justified.

I for one vote that all the Dusties have to be present and sitting in a lobby in real time from the time the boarding party places them in the cargo until they are fired from the ship towards another in a boarding pod.

At which point, if the shields are up, there is a 99% chance of all the Dusties dying as their pod smashes into shields intended to prevent Volkswagon sized slugs of metal fired at light fractional speeds from penetrating.

And if the ship is already into armor, there should be another 99% risk associated with running into reinforced armor meters thick: meaning instantaneous death from deceleration at hundreds of standard gravity.

Now if they make it inside, they can then deal with a real time crawl through narrow service tunnels on a ship up to 13Km long.
Assuming the titan is not in Tidi. Let's not forget Tidi. If the titan is in Tidi, they DUST gets it too to maintain "Balance". How does a 13km hike on foot in 10% Tidi sound to everyone?
Vipre Morte
Team JK
#30 - 2014-02-25 21:53:06 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Vipre Morte wrote:

I think you need to calm down -- this is just a game.



Which you are, apparently, determined to drive people out of.


Yup, that's me. Just here to ruin everybody's day! Roll

Anhenka wrote:

Sci-Fi is so full of ridiculous holes in mechanic or plot for the purpose of creating a plot or setting. Anything and everything can be justified.

I for one vote that all the Dusties have to be present and sitting in a lobby in real time from the time the boarding party places them in the cargo until they are fired from the ship towards another in a boarding pod.

At which point, if the shields are up, there is a 99% chance of all the Dusties dying as their pod smashes into shields intended to prevent Volkswagon sized slugs of metal fired at light fractional speeds from penetrating.

And if the ship is already into armor, there should be another 99% risk associated with running into reinforced armor meters thick: meaning instantaneous death from deceleration at hundreds of standard gravity.

Now if they make it inside, they can then deal with a real time crawl through narrow service tunnels on a ship up to 13Km long.
Assuming the titan is not in Tidi. Let's not forget Tidi. If the titan is in Tidi, they DUST gets it too to maintain "Balance". How does a 13km hike on foot in 10% Tidi sound to everyone?


I feel like you're losing your imaginative spirit! Sure, it should be difficult to breach the ships, but maybe not THAT difficult. See my other recent comment about TiDi, too.
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