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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates First post First post First post
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Michael Harari

Genos Occidere

HYDRA RELOADED

Likes received: 1,245

#341 - 2014-02-25 19:27:49 UTC | Edited by: Michael Harari

PinkKnife wrote:

The Sansha need more work, why would anyone use a succubus when the Retribution is basically the same thing, but armor tanked?

Retribution has 0 range control.

Quote:

How is the AB bonus that much inherently better than the MWD bonus?

Ab gives range control inside scram range, and better sig tank abillity. The succubus with an ab will go faster than a mwd retribution, while having 1/3rd the signature.

Quote:

You've given them a new bonus to speed, but no adjustments to their damage application, so now you're just going really fast and missing all the time.

There is more to frigate piloting than orbiting 500m

Quote:

Lasers are not the inherit bonus that they were designed to be, their range is decent but their damage is weak, and compared to rails there's no huge benefit to beams. Range isn't important enough of a factor in frigate warfare to warrant using beams when Scorch will do 90% of the work.

Frigate pvp is pretty much all about range. A succubus does more dps than a thrasher at the edge of scram range, even with barrage.

Quote:

I don't see this making the Sansha line desirable. You'll still be caught by interceptors, or dramiels, you'll be out dps'ed and out tanked, so why bother?

If you cant kill brawling interceptors in a succubus, I dont really know what to say. A succubus in scram web range will be faster than a dramiel, and out dps it as well, outside of 6k (and thats including the dram's drones)

Kogh Ayon

Royal Amarr Institute

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 170

#342 - 2014-02-25 19:28:35 UTC

While marauders are being promoted to both PVE and PVP, can you justify the situation of Nightmare that just being a good PVE ship?

Bastion module is a big fail because you want to put more risk to the ships with lower power/isk ratio, and excessively more expensive. You will want to have a look into those solo T3s and Machariel , though they are expensive ,they are less likely to get caught, and they are actually being used and quite popular.

People can accept the result that expensive solo ships being difficult to catch, but if you just making them a bit more powerful but very easy to get ganked, then they will simply fall to a pure PVE ship. Nightmare, check, Rattlesnake, check. Golem/Paladin, check, station camping pricks, check.

Pirate cruiser? they are simply sad from all the aspects, even for the cynabal, good to see them getting balanced.

Harvey James

The Sengoku Legacy

Likes received: 1,267

#343 - 2014-02-25 19:29:49 UTC | Edited by: Harvey James

sansha line need that nos utility high for any close range fighting..

perhaps increase the base speed and reduce mass .. then you could reduce the AB bonus a little... this would help insulate against being neuted out and becoming fairly slow again .... think more daredevil with a strong AB bonus..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1,293
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel Likes received: 1,293	#344 - 2014-02-25 19:33:58 UTC WTB: old phantasm skin

Silivar Karkun

Doomheim

Likes received: 212

#345 - 2014-02-25 19:35:02 UTC

another idea for the sanshas:

SUCCUBUS

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
7,5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking, optimal and falloff

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
7,5 bonus to tracking disruptor effectivenes and optimal range

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage

Slot layout: 3H, 5M, 2L ; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 44 PWG(-14), 170 CPU(-5)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(+41) / 550(+6) / 540(+23)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 450(+15) / 210000 (-24375) / 2.14 (+.09)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340(+53) / 3.5(-.35) / 965000 / 4.68s(-.4)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 32km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 33(+2)


Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED Likes received: 1,245	#346 - 2014-02-25 19:38:03 UTC Small nitpick on the succubus, its current signature is 35, not 33. So its -2 sig, not +2

PinkKnife

The Cuddlefish

Ethereal Dawn

Likes received: 522

#347 - 2014-02-25 19:40:38 UTC | Edited by: PinkKnife

Silivar Karkun wrote:

And where, exactly will you fit the tank for this on top of the prop mod, and obligatory scram/web?

Small-Arms Fire 1,637
Phoenix Jones Small-Arms Fire Likes received: 1,637	#348 - 2014-02-25 19:43:30 UTC The worms basically the ishkur, shield missile edition for the most part. If its average dps is around 250, it should be fine. With that said, it needs a 3rd missile slot to be useful. Its bonus now is a little awkward. Yaay!!!!

Vestus Regula

Moratorium Inc.

Likes received: 9

#349 - 2014-02-25 19:46:09 UTC

CCP Rise wrote:

A couple more clarifications:
(...) And I've also seen at least one person say they thought we were done with damage type specific bonuses, and we are not. It's a nice tool to use in certain places.

Yeah, like Titans, Stealth Bombers and every other caldari missile boat. ¬¬

By having fixed damage bonus types (specially thermal and kinetic - which, let's face it, pretty much everyone has medium / high resistances to), you're axing missiles greatest advantage against turrets. Yes, lasers and hybrids have fixed damage types, and projectile guns have mixed damage ammo, but they have a number of advantages when compared to missiles (instant damage application, can crit).

Yes, missiles always hit (provided the target is in range), but their damage can be so severely reduced by speed / signature, you might as well call it a miss.

Harvey James

The Sengoku Legacy

Likes received: 1,267

#350 - 2014-02-25 19:47:44 UTC | Edited by: Harvey James

how about this for a more focused blueprint for angels more focus on projectiles damage/projection .. since they are supposed too be the masters of projectiles .. stronger shield tank focus .. smaller sig when zipping around .. less speed so its no longer quicker than inties. also angels shouldn't have much droneage..

DRAMIEL

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret tracking speed

Minmatar Frigate Bonus:
12.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret falloff (+2.5%)
10% mwd sig radius penalty reduction

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage

Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 3 turrets, 0 (-1) launchers
Fittings: 40 (+3) PWG, 133 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 590(+7) / 490(-92) / 520(+3)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 370(+5) / 208000(-26375) / 1.77(+.22)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 420 (-40) / 3.1(-.02) / 950000 / 4.08s(-.02)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0( -15/-20)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 28km(+3km) / 750 / 5
Sensor strength: 11
Signature radius: 30(-2)

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Silivar Karkun

Doomheim

Likes received: 212

#351 - 2014-02-25 19:49:41 UTC

PinkKnife wrote:

Silivar Karkun wrote:

And where, exactly will you fit the tank for this on top of the prop mod, and obligatory scram/web?

that's what i need to find, how about this layout:

2H, 6M, 2L

Silverbackyererse

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 213

#352 - 2014-02-25 19:49:55 UTC | Edited by: Silverbackyererse

Worm changes to it's launcher dps is very welcome. Please consider making it all damage types though please.
Not so sure about the drone changes to Guri pirate faction ship but more than happy to suck it and see.
This thing is a darn brick too, nice to see it getting some extra speed.

Yes, please leave the web bonus on the D/Devil. These things are fun ships to fly but also not terribly difficult to bring down. Balance here is best out of all the Pirate frigates I think!

Cruor - not flown the ones I have since losing one to an Incursus once. Oops

Old NOS back on these is simply awesome!

Dramiel has been lacklustre since the previous change.
Some extra grid and CPU would also be most welcome.


Michael Harari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED Likes received: 1,245	#353 - 2014-02-25 19:50:37 UTC Silivar Karkun wrote: 2H, 6M, 2L That is hilarious.

seth Hendar

I love you miners

Likes received: 521

#354 - 2014-02-25 19:52:25 UTC

Michael Harari wrote:

LT Alter wrote:

Michael Harari wrote:

In larger fleets, the 90% web is what allows dreads to hit ahacs. And frigates.

You obviously have little experience flying dreads, signature resolution makes that a nearly impossible task. The hitting value is not determined just by the relative velocity and range it has to do with gun resolution and sig radius as well which makes hitting these ships with a dread hard even at 0 velocity. The other fact is that this is the medium sized warfare I was referring to, fights of less than 100-200 people where a smaller gang can operate and fight the larger gang using it's resources to it's advantage. Blap dreads are a highly effective way to counter numbers and comes with so many down sides to using that that they are no where near broken.

I am a major advocate for any and all mechanics that support quality over quantity in eve, blap dreads not only require expensive fits and a large amount of skill points but they require great teamwork and skilled pilots that know what they're doing.

A ship at 0 velocity gets hit for full dps by any guns not mounted on a titan.

Also, didnt you lose a bait tengu to me because you didnt know you cant light cynos in deadspace? And then had to burn a bunch of canes and falcons to save the archon you warped in?

say that to my ishtar, using gardes, at optimal of a pos, missing 10-15% of the shots..... and i'm fully skilled

Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 53
NinjaStyle Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State Likes received: 53	#355 - 2014-02-25 19:53:05 UTC 1 the Cruor will still be crap with the short neut range there is no meaning in the web range when you have to be within 10km just to neut anyways.

NinjaStyle

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 53

#356 - 2014-02-25 19:55:19 UTC

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

Hey guys,

We really need some more rants and complains to be going on in this thread please. All the confusion caused by the positive comments is getting to CCP Rise's head - he's becoming irrational and randomly attacking various people in the office. We'd use the straight-jacket to tie him up for a while, but it's currently being occupied by CCP Fozzie as he's having his daily drooling fit.

Thank you for your cooperation citizens.

everybody loves op **** even if its not fully thought thrue.

7th Temporal Lounge 11
Ashley Animus 7th Temporal Lounge Likes received: 11	#357 - 2014-02-25 19:56:36 UTC NinjaStyle wrote: the Cruor will still be crap with the short neut range there is no meaning in the web range when you have to be within 10km just to neut anyways. It would be nice to catch kiters and everything else within maybe 26km of an overheated t1 web. With which you end up getting close enough to neut them.

The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. 96
Morwennon The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. Likes received: 96	#358 - 2014-02-25 19:57:03 UTC 2 NinjaStyle wrote: the Cruor will still be crap with the short neut range there is no meaning in the web range when you have to be within 10km just to neut anyways. i too find that all my targets conveniently situate themselves at my preferred range and never have to run them down or catch them

Oberus MacKenzie

Handsome Millionaire Playboys

Sedition.

Likes received: 28

#359 - 2014-02-25 19:57:58 UTC

Interesting changes. I think the sansha are still getting the short straw here because of how absolutely awful their cap is and how totally dependent on it they are. Maybe an expanded cargo bay would allow for better cap booster use?

I'm also not sure that I like the idea of bringing back the completely overpowered NOS mechanics on ships with a web range bonus. The only way to get out from under something like that would be to use ECM, and I think there should be multiple tactics available to deal with any given situation.

On the flip side, I do like how the blood raiders pull ewars from both of their parent races. Maybe that could be something to think about as an approach to all pirate frigates.

Grath Telkin

Amok.

Goonswarm Federation

Likes received: 2,906

#360 - 2014-02-25 19:58:37 UTC

Morwennon wrote:

NinjaStyle wrote:

the Cruor will still be crap with the short neut range there is no meaning in the web range when you have to be within 10km just to neut anyways.

i too find that all my targets conveniently situate themselves at my preferred range and never have to run them down or catch them

Cut him some slack he's in Razor

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Genos Occidere

HYDRA RELOADED

Royal Amarr Institute

Amarr Empire

The Sengoku Legacy

Beyond Divinity Inc

Shadow Cartel

Doomheim

The Cuddlefish

Ethereal Dawn

Small-Arms Fire

Moratorium Inc.

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

I love you miners

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

7th Temporal Lounge

The Tuskers

The Tuskers Co.

Handsome Millionaire Playboys

Sedition.

Amok.

Goonswarm Federation