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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Are Links Too Much?
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Castnicke Rinah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2014-02-24 21:47:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Castnicke Rinah
Because more deployables is exactly what Eve needs.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#82 - 2014-02-24 21:58:59 UTC
Castnicke Rinah wrote:
Because more USEFUL deployables is exactly what Eve needs.



Fixed it for you.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2014-02-24 21:59:00 UTC
Castnicke Rinah wrote:
Because more deployables is exactly what Eve needs.



If it will kill OGB, it does.

Gizznit - I like your idea. I think I posted something similar in the "what deployables would you like to see?" thread.

When was the last time anyone saw a T1 BC with links on it? I am sure it happens, but its exceedingly rare. Make boosts be on grid, and these will be used a lot more.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#84 - 2014-02-24 22:06:29 UTC
Since the suggestion is essentially for an ECM deplorable, it needs an ECCM equivalent too.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#85 - 2014-02-24 22:13:18 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Castnicke Rinah wrote:
Because more deployables is exactly what Eve needs.



If it will kill OGB, it does.

Gizznit - I like your idea. I think I posted something similar in the "what deployables would you like to see?" thread.

When was the last time anyone saw a T1 BC with links on it? I am sure it happens, but its exceedingly rare. Make boosts be on grid, and these will be used a lot more.


Thank you for your support.

I'm a fan of the put links on grid mantra. I think that will be a healthier option overall.

CCP has previously stated that this is difficult to enact because of how fleet mechanics work, and I think a deployable to inhibit gang links might be a more implementable solution that provides a nice middle ground for countering links.

I too decided I should post the idea to the "Deployables Ideas Thread", and right after I did I saw the idea had been previously posted in the thread multiple times.

While I did do a forum search before creating the my F&I thread, I didn't see previous incarnations of the idea because I was using the "wrong" keywords. Alas, synonyms.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#86 - 2014-02-24 23:25:58 UTC
Yeah, where's the "Jam Links" midslot module that I can put on my ship to jam out fleet boosters? Where's the counter to fleet boosters? Aren't there supposed to be counters in this game other than "bring more of the same!" ?



IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#87 - 2014-02-25 00:03:40 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Yeah, where's the "Jam Links" midslot module that I can put on my ship to jam out fleet boosters? Where's the counter to fleet boosters? Aren't there supposed to be counters in this game other than "bring more of the same!" ?





The counter is a high slot module and has been around for ages.

There are several variants.
Arty
Missiles
Lasers
Blasters

All are effective counters to OGB ships.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#88 - 2014-02-25 00:12:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
IbanezLaney wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Yeah, where's the "Jam Links" midslot module that I can put on my ship to jam out fleet boosters? Where's the counter to fleet boosters? Aren't there supposed to be counters in this game other than "bring more of the same!" ?





The counter is a high slot module and has been around for ages.

There are several variants.
Arty
Missiles
Lasers
Blasters

All are effective counters to OGB ships.


You forgot probes.

More ships in space, on grid or off grid, is a good thing.

Complaining that boosts spoil 1v1's is a pathetic notion in an MMO.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#89 - 2014-02-25 00:16:44 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Complaining that boosts spoil 1v1's is a pathetic notion in an MMO.


Soloing with links is an oxymoron!

The biggest difference between soloing with links and soloing with logistics, is that logistic ships gain aggro timers and can be directly countered.

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#90 - 2014-02-25 00:36:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Complaining that boosts spoil 1v1's is a pathetic notion in an MMO.


Soloing with links is an oxymoron!

The biggest difference between soloing with links and soloing with logistics, is that logistic ships gain aggro timers and can be directly countered.



The same person you use to damp or jam logi could be probing out the hostile booster. Its not complicated. OGB usually have less than 10k ehp. Thats potentially 1sk'able.

Also, i was pointing out that 1v1 in an MMO was a pathetic notion.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#91 - 2014-02-25 01:28:50 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Complaining that boosts spoil 1v1's is a pathetic notion in an MMO.


Soloing with links is an oxymoron!

The biggest difference between soloing with links and soloing with logistics, is that logistic ships gain aggro timers and can be directly countered.


yeah soloing against somebody with a logi alt i doubt can be directly countered. ec-300s arnt as OP as they used to be.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#92 - 2014-02-25 01:39:57 UTC
Castnicke Rinah wrote:
At least it means we can laugh at them, knowing that without links they would have lost.

It's what I tell myself every time I die.



Good for you.
Keep telling yourself that.


https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#93 - 2014-02-25 01:46:54 UTC
I honestly don't see the problem with coding links on grid. The code is already there in the fleet watchlist - it only displays staus bars of on grid ships. It should be a simple matter to add the same flag to the fleet boosts.

IMO the issue is not a technical one at all and CCP are reluctant to put link alts in too much danger in fear of those accounts being unsubbed.

So we live with an arguably broken mechanic until CCP can come up with another use for alt accounts that require little in game effort to use.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#94 - 2014-02-25 01:52:01 UTC
All the arguments have been presented. All that is left to this thread is trading of insults and the lock.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#95 - 2014-02-25 02:05:36 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
All the arguments have been presented. All that is left to this thread is trading of insults and the lock.



I think that's how the thread started.

Was all done in reverse to trick those pesky ISD killjoys.





https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2014-02-25 09:25:41 UTC
This idea has probably been posted somewhere already but I'm lazy.

1) Make link range 1 AU
2) GIve massive sig bloom penalty on link activation

So:
- Ships using links always show up on 'short scan' while you're fighting - you get a rough idea of what you're up against
- Parking alt on station or just outside POS shields isn't really viable anymore
- Can be probed down easily
- You stop worrying about ECCMing your booster, so you can make it tankier/more agile whatever

So links remain powerful but become more vulnerable and need a bit more active management. Much less vulnerable than being on-grid though.

Opens up some new gameplay:
- If in a fleet, trying to get the other fleet's booster out of the equation (killing it, scaring it off, trying to engage enemy fleet in another location, ...) becomes a common tactic - doesn't mean it's always worth doing though. Nor will everyone and their mom run around with a 200tf expanded probe launcher all the time. You just get more tactical options
- If in small gang, you can have one guy bait the 'boosted solo pilot' into activating his links while the rest of the gang tries to catch the booster; if booster runs/cloaks the bait guy may then try to solo the pilot without his links, etc. etc.
- Using a booster alt requires some more skill - you need to move it close to the battle, make safesposts on the fly, ...
- You can bait with a booster
- ...

Reasonable compromise maybe?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#97 - 2014-02-25 10:05:54 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
This idea has probably been posted somewhere already but I'm lazy.

1) Make link range 1 AU
2) GIve massive sig bloom penalty on link activation

So:
- Ships using links always show up on 'short scan' while you're fighting - you get a rough idea of what you're up against
- Parking alt on station or just outside POS shields isn't really viable anymore
- Can be probed down easily
- You stop worrying about ECCMing your booster, so you can make it tankier/more agile whatever

So links remain powerful but become more vulnerable and need a bit more active management. Much less vulnerable than being on-grid though.

Opens up some new gameplay:
- If in a fleet, trying to get the other fleet's booster out of the equation (killing it, scaring it off, trying to engage enemy fleet in another location, ...) becomes a common tactic - doesn't mean it's always worth doing though. Nor will everyone and their mom run around with a 200tf expanded probe launcher all the time. You just get more tactical options
- If in small gang, you can have one guy bait the 'boosted solo pilot' into activating his links while the rest of the gang tries to catch the booster; if booster runs/cloaks the bait guy may then try to solo the pilot without his links, etc. etc.
- Using a booster alt requires some more skill - you need to move it close to the battle, make safesposts on the fly, ...
- You can bait with a booster
- ...

Reasonable compromise maybe?



Nope.
Won´t change that links are a solo killer.
Won´t change farming "solo" killmails vs pilots without links.
Will make defense too easy in comparison to offense.
Won´t change that whole corps quit eve because "oh okay they have links and we haven´t so guys stay docked, no pvp today".
Won´t change that links are op like hell.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2014-02-25 10:28:31 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Nope.
Won´t change that links are a solo killer.
Won´t change farming "solo" killmails vs pilots without links.
Will make defense too easy in comparison to offense.
Won´t change that whole corps quit eve because "oh okay they have links and we haven´t so guys stay docked, no pvp today".
Won´t change that links are op like hell.


Exactly. The idea was to make link gameplay more interesting, not to eliminate it.

Also, I'm pretty sure a whole corp that would even consider the idea of staying docked, let alone quitting EVE altogether (really???) just because of not having links (that are trainable to a decent level in what, 2-3 months max?) would probably quit EVE for some other reason anyway.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Silverbackyererse
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#99 - 2014-02-25 10:44:25 UTC
My links were not too much - not as much as that bag of Acapulco Gold I acquired back in '89 for example. Good times.






l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#100 - 2014-02-25 11:35:59 UTC
I killed a link loki again yesterday <3
I don't understand how you don't love them. Even the scanning alone releases a decent doses of adrenalin.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos