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Rattlesnake Ideas...
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#61 - 2014-02-24 00:44:11 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Where do you get these numbers?

With Fury Cruises and wardens, the RS would get about 1422DPS, assuming you use 3 CN BCUs. Thats paper DPS btw (with lvl V skills), and also the same amount the Navy Typhoon does with 4 BCU + 3 DDA.

Torps and ogres would give you 1973DPS, with horrible projection AND application.

Fine, if you insist…

4x Torpedo Launcher II, Scourge Rage torpedoes, 3x Ballistic Control System II
• 1115 DPS standard, 1232.3 DPS with two +5 implants; 1449.8 DPS overheated

5x Ogre II or 5x Garde II, 3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
• 751.3 DPS (Garde) or 793.3 DPS (Ogre)

That's 2243.1 DPS combined, and if I ran Faction ballistic controls it actually pushes the missile DPS to 1635.6, or 2428.9 DPS combined. I don't think even the Vindicator can approach that...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#62 - 2014-02-24 00:55:14 UTC
In my opinion the question you all should be asking is this:

"Why would I fly a Rattlesnake if I can fly a Golem?"

Consider that for a moment and then answer the OP again.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#63 - 2014-02-24 00:56:31 UTC
Price? Drones?

I don't know. Why would I fly anything else if I could fly a Golem?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#64 - 2014-02-24 01:01:25 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Price? Drones?
I don't know. Why would I fly anything else if I could fly a Golem?

Golems are overrated...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2014-02-24 01:03:16 UTC
If it had Typhoon style bonus to explosion velocity and the Domi style drone bonuses to optimal and tracking I would definitely fly one :D Potentially that may swing it from underwhelming to OP though.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#66 - 2014-02-24 01:13:51 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Price? Drones?
I don't know. Why would I fly anything else if I could fly a Golem?

Golems are overrated...



I agree. The question rates right up there with why would I fly anything but an Incursus. You fly what you want to fly. A Rattlesnake isn't a Golem, which would be a good enough answer for me.

I'd likely have a Rattlesnake in my hanger right now if I had ever bothered to learn Caldari ships. In 2008 I didn't feel like being from the Space Walmart Empire, I chose Space French instead. My focus has been on Armor and Drones until very recently, but I always liked the idea of Missiles and Drones. The Amarr Dragoon and retooled Prophecy kinda make me feel tingly in the nethers.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#67 - 2014-02-24 01:17:52 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
I agree. The question rates right up there with why would I fly anything but an Incursus. You fly what you want to fly. A Rattlesnake isn't a Golem, which would be a good enough answer for me.

I'd likely have a Rattlesnake in my hanger right now if I had ever bothered to learn Caldari ships. In 2008 I didn't feel like being from the Space Walmart Empire, I chose Space French instead. My focus has been on Armor and Drones until very recently, but I always liked the idea of Missiles and Drones. The Amarr Dragoon and retooled Prophecy kinda make me feel tingly in the nethers.

The real question is: if you could paint/style your ship in a different color/scheme, what would you fly?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2014-02-24 01:18:59 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Price? Drones?
I don't know. Why would I fly anything else if I could fly a Golem?

Golems are overrated...



I agree. The question rates right up there with why would I fly anything but an Incursus. You fly what you want to fly. A Rattlesnake isn't a Golem, which would be a good enough answer for me.

I'd likely have a Rattlesnake in my hanger right now if I had ever bothered to learn Caldari ships. In 2008 I didn't feel like being from the Space Walmart Empire, I chose Space French instead. My focus has been on Armor and Drones until very recently, but I always liked the idea of Missiles and Drones. The Amarr Dragoon and retooled Prophecy kinda make me feel tingly in the nethers.


Prophecy and Drake are probably the two best all round BCs, the Harbinger is a dog in comparison. The only other BC you regularly see is the 'nado and it is limited to use as a suicide gank boat.

Prophecy lacks any missile bonuses so missiles are definitely a secondary weapon ... which actually makes it a good candidate for RLML's.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#69 - 2014-02-24 01:22:49 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Price? Drones?
I don't know. Why would I fly anything else if I could fly a Golem?

Golems are overrated...



I agree. The question rates right up there with why would I fly anything but an Incursus. You fly what you want to fly. A Rattlesnake isn't a Golem, which would be a good enough answer for me.

I'd likely have a Rattlesnake in my hanger right now if I had ever bothered to learn Caldari ships. In 2008 I didn't feel like being from the Space Walmart Empire, I chose Space French instead. My focus has been on Armor and Drones until very recently, but I always liked the idea of Missiles and Drones. The Amarr Dragoon and retooled Prophecy kinda make me feel tingly in the nethers.


Prophecy and Drake are probably the two best all round BCs, the Harbinger is a dog in comparison. The only other BC you regularly see is the 'nado and it is limited to use as a suicide gank boat.

Prophecy lacks any missile bonuses so missiles are definitely a secondary weapon ... which actually makes it a good candidate for RLML's.



To me the Prophecy is now just a sexy beast. I like having options, and that ship is now very flexable. I have run it in many configurations, from 100mn AB kiter to a sluggish space brick with every kind of weapon there is. It looks cool, fits easy, and costs next to nothing.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#70 - 2014-02-24 02:16:02 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
To me the Prophecy is now just a sexy beast. I like having options, and that ship is now very flexable. I have run it in many configurations, from 100mn AB kiter to a sluggish space brick with every kind of weapon there is. It looks cool, fits easy, and costs next to nothing.

The "brick" aspect you got right. Give it 2 more launchers and missile bonuses and I'd be all over it.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#71 - 2014-02-24 05:56:20 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
To me the Prophecy is now just a sexy beast. I like having options, and that ship is now very flexable. I have run it in many configurations, from 100mn AB kiter to a sluggish space brick with every kind of weapon there is. It looks cool, fits easy, and costs next to nothing.

The "brick" aspect you got right. Give it 2 more launchers and missile bonuses and I'd be all over it.


Try the Damnation. Also sexy but in a whole different way.
Voxinian
#72 - 2014-02-24 08:15:51 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Price? Drones?
I don't know. Why would I fly anything else if I could fly a Golem?

Golems are overrated...



I agree. The question rates right up there with why would I fly anything but an Incursus. You fly what you want to fly. A Rattlesnake isn't a Golem, which would be a good enough answer for me.

I'd likely have a Rattlesnake in my hanger right now if I had ever bothered to learn Caldari ships. In 2008 I didn't feel like being from the Space Walmart Empire, I chose Space French instead. My focus has been on Armor and Drones until very recently, but I always liked the idea of Missiles and Drones. The Amarr Dragoon and retooled Prophecy kinda make me feel tingly in the nethers.


And thats why besides the rattlesnake missile boats needs to be buffed. 90% of my SPs are missile boat skills... hoping for CCP to make them viable ships for solo pvp one day.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2014-02-24 08:37:39 UTC
The idea of solo battleship pvp in eve is a convenient myth. Much like the idea of the chivalrous knight.

Even if you engage in a duel, if you don't have logistics backup you should know that the other guy does.

Balancing a ship around solo pvp is balancing it around its least likely use case.

What makes a ship good in reality is the ability to project damage and to move fast, and secondarily it's ability to prevent other ships doing the same thing.

This is why the rattlesnake is less popular than the vindicator (prevents things moving), machariel (projects damage and moves fast) and even less popular than a Dominix (projects damage).

A rattlesnake does none of these desirable things. In order to make use of itself it must commit early, which makes the outcome of the fight a lottery - removing all choice from the pilot.

Making it strong with an ECM bonus would give it the opportunity to disengage from a brawl that was not going well, which is an ability the other pirate ships don't have.

This is why it should have an ECM bonus and have one low replaced by a mid. Then you could brawl with a few of them while reducing incoming dps. Individuals for whom the fight was not going well could through coordination , break enemy scrambler locks, MJD out of the engagement and then away to repair.

This would the make the rattlesnake a viable brawler in many sizes of engagement. Particularly when supported by some basiisks and a few ravens.

Welcome the return of shield brawlers to eve!

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Luscius Uta
#74 - 2014-02-24 12:32:55 UTC
Rattlesnake needs some love. One thing it does not need is more tank, though. So Caldari Battleship skill bonus and shield recharge rate are both fine. Gallente Battleship skill bonus is standard on drone boats, so that's fine as well. But the thing needs more DPS, so I would add one more launcher slot (to increase paper DPS) and replace the not so useful special ability with 25% bonus to explosion velocity (to increase practical DPS).

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
#75 - 2014-02-24 12:37:18 UTC
On a more serious note, we should wait and see what happens to other pirate BS first. Then try to find changes to keep the RS at same power level as the rest
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#76 - 2014-02-24 12:47:51 UTC
Are Pirate ships next for rebalancing?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
#77 - 2014-02-24 12:54:06 UTC
No idea, but we have all heard rumors about nerf to Mach and that web strenght might be up for depate on the Vindi.

This seems to indicate that current power levels may not be the same as after balance, whenever that balance comes
Kane Fenris
NWP
#78 - 2014-02-24 13:27:40 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:


Isn't a gun turret a chance-based weapon?


not after piloting skills are applied..... (i mean actual piloting not the skills)
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
#79 - 2014-02-24 13:35:18 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:


Isn't a gun turret a chance-based weapon?


not after piloting skills are applied..... (i mean actual piloting not the skills)


You can have as much piloting skill as you want, there is still a chance for doing 50%-150% for each shot (and 1% chance for 3x dmg)

There is no random in the form of hitting or not, but there is a random for how much dmg you do
Kane Fenris
NWP
#80 - 2014-02-24 13:47:22 UTC
Itago Gemulus wrote:
Kane Fenris wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:


Isn't a gun turret a chance-based weapon?


not after piloting skills are applied..... (i mean actual piloting not the skills)


You can have as much piloting skill as you want, there is still a chance for doing 50%-150% for each shot (and 1% chance for 3x dmg)

There is no random in the form of hitting or not, but there is a random for how much dmg you do


if i look at the averag damge distribution over shoots fired in a random engagement it wil be normal distributed
considererd a standard fight lengh the average damage should be very lose to the center of the distribution thus dmaga should not be seen as chance based

while ecm hugely depends on when you get the first jam and other factors and cant be seen as a perfectly good normal distribution over a fight

as to the piloting skills i am aware of how they work i was just making a joke when i implied he thinks hitting may be a random thing...