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CSM candidates...Above the Law?

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Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#21 - 2014-02-24 05:56:28 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:


Journalism is about exposing things like this if you want to go in that angle.

Would you be as upset if I exposed a botter or any other EULA breaker? Of course not.


If you used the same method you just did then tried to justify it, yeah I would be.

A journalist is held to a high standard of ethics and accountability.
A paparazzi is not.

And intentional violations of confidence are among the worst breaks from that ethical code that do not result in physical harm (disclosing names, locations, or identifying information that could result in violent retaliation against that person)


But since you seem to think that this is on a different subject altogether, exactly what do you think the issue is?
That someone imitated you? Boo-hoo, this is not the place for it. Take it to a GM, or the C&P section, where they deal with stuff like that. But you brought your accusations to GD, then proceeded to try and play the innocent as to your own role.

I'm confident that the GM's will deal with any issues that arise from the alleged impersonation. All I see here though is a chance to chew someone out for throwing stones in a glass house.


You think i'm here as a journalist? You see me interviewing you or anything?

I'm sure the GMs will do their job well enough. But this thread isn't for them. It's for the every day individual discussing the ethical character of CSM candidates in general. You can continue to white knight the guy all you want, but that's not what the thread is about.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#22 - 2014-02-24 06:01:18 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:

I'm sure the GMs will do their job well enough. But this thread isn't for them. It's for the every day individual discussing the ethical character of CSM candidates in general. You can continue to white knight the guy all you want, but that's not what the thread is about.


This Jayne guy sounds like a total ******* tbh.

But you don't start a reasonable discussion about candidates by calling one out and accusing them of breaking the EULA.

And this thread is far too polluted to even attempt a reasonable discussion.

Go start a new one, start it out as a reasonable discussion thread about CSM candidates, don't call anyone out in the OP, then pretend to be someone else and sneak a discussion about it in after 3-4 posts as a "concerned eve citizen" on an alt. Like any good mudracker who knows how not to get the blowback.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#23 - 2014-02-24 06:03:03 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
I'm sure the GMs will do their job well enough. But this thread isn't for them. It's for the every day individual discussing the ethical character of CSM candidates in general.
Ethical character? Are you serious? Firstly this is Eve, pretty much anything goes as long as it doesn't break the EULA or ToS, which as far as I can see hasn't happened, implicating someone is not the same as impersonation. Secondly the CSM are basically politicians, neither knows the meaning of ethics

Quote:
You can continue to white knight the guy all you want, but that's not what the thread is about.
What is it about then? All I see is some airing of dirty laundry in public and a bucketful of imagined butthut.

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Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#24 - 2014-02-24 06:04:57 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:

I'm sure the GMs will do their job well enough. But this thread isn't for them. It's for the every day individual discussing the ethical character of CSM candidates in general. You can continue to white knight the guy all you want, but that's not what the thread is about.


This Jayne guy sounds like a total ******* tbh.

But you don't start a reasonable discussion about candidates by calling one out and accusing them of breaking the EULA.

And this thread is far too polluted to even attempt a reasonable discussion.

Go start a new one, start it out as a reasonable discussion thread about CSM candidates, don't call anyone out in the OP, then pretend to be someone else and sneak a discussion about it in after 3-4 posts as a "concerned eve citizen" on an alt. Like any good mudracker who knows how not to get the blowback.


If it's polluted it's because you made it so. All I did was point out what a CSM candidate said in their own words, a clear EULA violation with anyone familiar with the rules. Then I asked if CSM candidates were above rules they didn't agree with. I think not and most are likely inclined to agree. Others however don't agree. A current CSM member even told me that the rule was stupid and it wasn't relevant. So that's that.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#25 - 2014-02-24 06:06:06 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
I'm sure the GMs will do their job well enough. But this thread isn't for them. It's for the every day individual discussing the ethical character of CSM candidates in general.
Ethical character? Are you serious? Firstly this is Eve, pretty much anything goes as long as it doesn't break the EULA or ToS, which as far as I can see hasn't happened, implicating someone is not the same as impersonation. Secondly the CSM are basically politicians, neither knows the meaning of ethics

Quote:
You can continue to white knight the guy all you want, but that's not what the thread is about.
What is it about then? All I see is some airing of dirty laundry in public and a bucketful of imagined butthut.


When you state that "I told X person that I was Y" when you aren't, that's a EULA violation. Nothing clean about that.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#26 - 2014-02-24 06:12:59 UTC
I for one think Jayne can manage to sabotage his own campaign with ineptitude without help.

That 8 page article on the TMC pretending to be an authority on carriers and everything wrong with their fleet using in nullsec, while at the same time being ignorant of basic carrier mechanics like refitting drones into drone bays and an admitted lack of experience with capitals basically punched him off my list for any potential vote.

But issues like EULA violations are really not something to be judged by the masses. Especially not when the source is someone with a grudge and potentially dodgy pastebin conversations.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#27 - 2014-02-24 06:15:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph IX Basarab
Anhenka wrote:
I for one think Jayne can manage to sabotage his own campaign with ineptitude without help.

That 8 page article on the TMC pretending to be an authority on carriers and everything wrong with their fleet using in nullsec, while at the same time being ignorant of basic carrier mechanics like refitting drones into drone bays and an admitted lack of experience with capitals basically punched him off my list for any potential vote.

But issues like EULA violations are really not something to be judged by the masses. Especially not when the source is someone with a grudge and potentially dodgy pastebin conversations.


Again I don't want anyone here to judge his EULA violation. Just pointing out an issue. As for the reliability of the logs, ask him yourself. He's pretty honest once you corner him enough.

But back to the topic, on the principle of the matter what do you think? Even if a rule is unpopular to some in theory, should an elected official still uphold said law?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#28 - 2014-02-24 06:38:59 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
What are your thoughts?


There is a politician here in NZ who has been levelling all sorts of accusations against a rather large, multi-national Supermarket chain. What he says may have some truth to it. It may be entirely false - at the moment it's too early in the piece to tell.

But, what makes him interesting is that he is only willing to make these accusations in parliament, where he is protected against any defamation or related claims. He's thus far refused to repeat himself in public outside of parliament. At least, that was the state when I last saw something related to this. Typical Labour candidate, to my mind, playing politics instead of actually focussing on what is important.



Most Commonwealth parliaments have a contempt of Parliament charge, which is a career ender - ie using his 15 minutes of fame to ramble on about a corp is just wasting his own oxygen, and our time and money,, but if he appears to have deliberately placed falsehoods in an actual debate about actual laws, then thats a different matter.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-02-24 06:52:16 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
What are your thoughts?


I dont particularly care about CSM or that whole shabang. its just fluff.

Having said that, I have political experience in real life, I myself ran for a nomination to run in provincial parliament, and i can tell you that, if your goal was to smear the guy, its weak stuff. Not particularly attention-grabbing. Not going to sway the election one way or another.

Better bet is to simply buy yourself a spot rather then go about it by smearing others obliquely. Organize an event before the vote, dramiels giveaway for example, where you would warp in and jettison dramiels from a hauler every 10 minutes as long as your votes kept going up.... Publicize it with alts on forums, in chat channels, in every empire region and local chat channel, etc.,, and win.

I dont even know if youre running tho.

In case you want just answer to your question - CSM or not, EULA violations should be investigated.
Kinis Deren
Mosquito Squadron
D0GS OF WAR
#30 - 2014-02-24 06:59:27 UTC
I do feel that those associated with the CSM do seem to be treated more leniently by CCP.

Do you remember that racist dude from last year's election? It took playerbase action before CCP paid much attention to the matter.

Oh and who can forget that famous case of blatant cyber bullying - calling on players to grief a specific player in the hope that he commited suicide IRL & using a CCP Twitch stream to deliver said message - resulting in essentially a slapped wrist.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#31 - 2014-02-24 07:02:00 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
What are your thoughts?


I dont particularly care about CSM or that whole shabang. its just fluff.

Having said that, I have political experience in real life, I myself ran for a nomination to run in provincial parliament, and i can tell you that, if your goal was to smear the guy, its weak stuff. Not particularly attention-grabbing. Not going to sway the election one way or another.

Better bet is to simply buy yourself a spot rather then go about it by smearing others obliquely. Organize an event before the vote, dramiels giveaway for example, where you would warp in and jettison dramiels from a hauler every 10 minutes as long as your votes kept going up.... Publicize it with alts on forums, in chat channels, in every empire region and local chat channel, etc.,, and win.

I dont even know if youre running tho.

In case you want just answer to your question - CSM or not, EULA violations should be investigated.


Nah I don't think I would ever run but Kinis brings up some good points. There has been a history of this and player exposure and open discussion, I believe is a good way to solve some of these issues.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#32 - 2014-02-24 07:32:37 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
What are your thoughts?

After reading the whole thread up to here?

Internet spaceships ara serious business. Still, this is nothing more than a game. Or should be. Maybe you're taking this just a little too serious? But maybe that's just me.

I personally would wait for the GM's response, before taking any other steps.

Remove standings and insurance.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#33 - 2014-02-24 11:01:25 UTC
One of the best ways is probably to not vote for said candidate. Thinking back to previous elections and candidates using spambots to get their "message" out, hardly a candidate I'd ever consider voting for.

/c

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-02-24 11:32:33 UTC
Hate to break the news to all the "you shouldn't post private convo's" but this is has been going on for years, since not long after EVE came out.

Plenty of cases where even TS of private conversations have been posted on the forums and everyone other than the victim has had a good laugh about it. This despite in most western countries, releasing audio recordings of a private conversation is a serious offence punishable by imprisonment.

The difference here? Well its a favored CSM member rather than some guy that got scammed.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-02-24 11:50:47 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Hate to break the news to all the "you shouldn't post private convo's" but this is has been going on for years, since not long after EVE came out.

Plenty of cases where even TS of private conversations have been posted on the forums and everyone other than the victim has had a good laugh about it. This despite in most western countries, releasing audio recordings of a private conversation is a serious offence punishable by imprisonment.

The difference here? Well its a favored CSM member rather than some guy that got scammed.

Where is it a serious offense? I really want to know. I could see it being that way, if it was without the consent of any party in the private convo, but usually it is just one side of that convo going public with the recording he made and that is all the consent needed. I don't see anything illegal about that and I know it's in fact legal where I live.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2014-02-24 11:53:29 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Hate to break the news to all the "you shouldn't post private convo's" but this is has been going on for years, since not long after EVE came out.

Plenty of cases where even TS of private conversations have been posted on the forums and everyone other than the victim has had a good laugh about it. This despite in most western countries, releasing audio recordings of a private conversation is a serious offence punishable by imprisonment.

The difference here? Well its a favored CSM member rather than some guy that got scammed.

Where is it a serious offense? I really want to know. I could see it being that way, if it was without the consent of any party in the private convo, but usually it is just one side of that convo going public with the recording he made and that is all the consent needed. I don't see anything illegal about that and I know it's in fact legal where I live.

Its a serious offence is most developed western countries to covertly record a private conversation and make the conversation available to others. You in most cases must make the person being recorded aware that you are recording them.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#37 - 2014-02-24 11:55:46 UTC
Confirming VSM candidates are above the law...

....................Vote Azami CSM9!

...

Victor Andall
#38 - 2014-02-24 12:01:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Victor Andall
OP, did you report Jayne?

Did you wait for a CCP or ISD or GM or whatever response?

Or did you take straight to the forums?

ALSO,in regards to your CSM eligibility question, CSM says nothing (nor should it) about player morality. Remember when Mittani Escrow-scammed a guy that trusted him solely because of his position in the CSM? Because that's how assumptions work.

I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?

19.08.2014 - Dinsdale gets slammed by CCP Falcon. Never forget.

Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#39 - 2014-02-24 16:24:09 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
If you look for the logs you'll find them. The OP tells you how to do it. I'll PM you guys the pastebin link directly though.

In any case this thread isn't about Jayne specifically but the principle of the matter. We've seen how it is when people in position get different rules applied to them. Regardless how people feel about the rules the principle remains.


Of course not, it's just you targeting that person specifically with baseless accusations without any evidence to support your claims other than "if you look for the logs on a site that you can submit any text on."

Sounds very unbiased.
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-02-24 16:47:20 UTC
Quit tattle telling. A game is meant to be enjoyed. If this character nonsense is what your concerned about, then you obviously need something to do. There are more pressing matters such as the "Plex for Good" corruption that needs addressed.
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