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Does Eve need new players?

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Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#221 - 2014-02-24 03:33:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
New people still have to actually pay for this game.

Being new, it's very unlikely I'm going to be doing anything that can net me an excess of 650m+ isk in a month, especially taking into consideration all of the inevitable losses.

So since having completely inferior skills for everything puts me in a position to constantly lose, anything I can potentially do will have next to no pay out. Essentially, pay $180 over a yearfor a game everyone else plays for free, making less, with no ability to invest time to increase the development of my own character.

There's no incentive to play the game. No matter what I do I know chances are I'll be the one getting taken advantage of in any encounter, and anything I can do, will be making so little progress financially in comparison to everyone else.

Why can't I at least get some sort of skill gain multiplier increase for logging in and doing something? Run a set of 5 missions, get 3x skill point generation for the next 24 hours.

As a new, non-alt, there's no real reason for me to log in. Run level 1 missions in a frigate for 4 hours and gain 5 million isk. Or, watch cartoons in my underpants eating icecream screaming at the coyote to catch the bird, for 12 months becoming severely obese, then logging in with a character who can properly fly a battle cruiser and make 5 million isk in 5 minutes.

Knowing the potential, knowing that everything you do is peanuts compared to the mountains of isk others are receiving is a huge deterrent to consider investing time.

The game is not set up for new people to actually play.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#222 - 2014-02-24 03:34:32 UTC
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#223 - 2014-02-24 03:38:53 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
New people still have to actually pay for this game.

Being new, it's very unlikely you're going to be doing anything that can net you an excess of 650m+ isk in a month, especially taking into consideration all of the inevitable losses.

So since having completely inferior skills for everything puts me in a position to constantly lose, anything I can potentially do will have next to no pay out. Essentially, pay $180 for a game everyone else plays for free, making less, with no ability to invest time to increase the development of your own character.

There's no incentive to play the game. No matter what I do I know chances are I'll be the one getting taken advantage of in any encounter, and anything I can do, will be making so little progress financially in comparison to everyone else.

Why can't I at least get some sort of skill gain multiplier increase for logging in and doing something? Run a set of 5 missions, get 3x skill point generation for the next 24 hours.

As a new, non-alt, there's no real reason for me to log in. Run level 1 missions in a frigate for 4 hours and gain 5 million isk. Or, watch cartoons in my underpants eating icecream screaming at the coyote to catch the bird, for 12 months becoming severely obese, then logging in with a character who can properly fly a battle cruiser and make 5 million isk in 5 minutes.

Knowing the potential, knowing that everything you do is peanuts compared to the mountains of isk others are receiving is a huge deterrent to consider investing time.

The game is not set up for new people to actually play.


This game is not about ISK or Skillpoints.

Friends, knowledge, and experience account for a lot more.

If you, a newbie, were to buy a fully trained account youd be just as bad at the game then, as you are now...Only youd lose things worth billions instead of millions and wouldve wasted a ton of RL money to play. Play the game and build your way up, learning as you go.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#224 - 2014-02-24 03:40:57 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
So basically, do nothing for a year and then you can start thinking about playing the game.

Literally the only option is to wait.

Go do missions with only 1 million skill points in high sec?

Nope, can't do that. Some griefer will come along, notice you've only been playing for 3 weeks, kill you, and post a thread on the eve forums reaping accolades and applause.

Go mine? Some griefer will come along, notice you've only been playing for 3 weeks, kill you, and post a thread on the eve forums reaping accolades and applause.

Try trading? Nope, some griefer will scan you at a jump gate and suicide gank you for everything you own.

"Why don't you team up with other new players and defend yourselves?!"

Because then all that happens is 20 of us lose ships while a guy in a battleship LoL posts a thread on the eve forums receiving applause and accolades from you.

Being a new player in this game really, really sucks. The only chance I have to stand on my own is to buy an account, or wait 1-2 years for skills to train.


Every single thing you post is just a tantrum. You're wrong and you've been told why you're wrong, enough that you can do something about your 'problems', but maybe this game just isn't for you.


Yea well maybe if you were more concerned with fostering a positive attitude, negativity wouldn't arise.

You're a reason this thread needed to exist.


Last I checked, you don't know anything about me, or my attitude. Which means you're doing nothing but jumping to conclusions based on assumptions, and given the flavour of your vitriol, probably emotional ones at that. Your problem is that you don't understand EVE, or what it's about, or that it's a game. As a result, you think someone does something bad to you in game, that makes them bad in real life. This is offensive, and as a result of being offensive, that makes you a ****, which ironically, makes you a **** in real life. However, my behaviour on a video game just makes me a gamer playing a game. If you can't handle that, then once again, the game is probably not for you.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#225 - 2014-02-24 03:41:57 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Essentially, pay $180 over a yearfor a game everyone else plays for free, making less, with no ability to invest time to increase the development of my own character.


Sorry who plays for free? Certainly not anyone who hasn't already paid a lot in the past.

Expecting to be able to play a game for free from day 1 is a bit unrealistic and CCP earn a lot of money off EvE, so evidence would suggest most people who play, pay for the privilege.

The cheapest way to play is to take a long term (12 month) subscription and then re-evaluate later on whether you can PLEX it through in game activity, or continue to pay.

Sony, Microsoft, Rovio, etc. they all expect people to pay them to use the products they create. CCP is no different in that respect.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#226 - 2014-02-24 03:43:41 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
New people still have to actually pay for this game.

Being new, it's very unlikely you're going to be doing anything that can net you an excess of 650m+ isk in a month, especially taking into consideration all of the inevitable losses.

So since having completely inferior skills for everything puts me in a position to constantly lose, anything I can potentially do will have next to no pay out. Essentially, pay $180 for a game everyone else plays for free, making less, with no ability to invest time to increase the development of your own character.

There's no incentive to play the game. No matter what I do I know chances are I'll be the one getting taken advantage of in any encounter, and anything I can do, will be making so little progress financially in comparison to everyone else.

Why can't I at least get some sort of skill gain multiplier increase for logging in and doing something? Run a set of 5 missions, get 3x skill point generation for the next 24 hours.

As a new, non-alt, there's no real reason for me to log in. Run level 1 missions in a frigate for 4 hours and gain 5 million isk. Or, watch cartoons in my underpants eating icecream screaming at the coyote to catch the bird, for 12 months becoming severely obese, then logging in with a character who can properly fly a battle cruiser and make 5 million isk in 5 minutes.

Knowing the potential, knowing that everything you do is peanuts compared to the mountains of isk others are receiving is a huge deterrent to consider investing time.

The game is not set up for new people to actually play.


This game is not about ISK or Skillpoints.

Friends, knowledge, and experience account for a lot more.

If you, a newbie, were to buy a fully trained account youd be just as bad at the game then, as you are now...Only youd lose things worth billions instead of millions and wouldve wasted a ton of RL money to play. Play the game and build your way up, learning as you go.


Well then if the game isn't about ISK or skill points, you'll have no trouble supporting a suggestion that EVE makes it so level 1 missions for characters under 15million skill points are given 10x more isk, and all accounts under 15mil SP are given 10x more SP generation.

The game isn't about ISK or SP, so lets get people like me outfitted in ships I want to fly faster, with more isk of my own for you to potentially take.

According to you, I'll lose it anyways. So giving new players like myself quicker training times and faster isk generation is mutually beneficial.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#227 - 2014-02-24 03:45:30 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Eran Mintor wrote:
In response to the OP, cuz I'm not going to read 12 pages of this:

Yes the game needs new players. No there is nothing wrong with the situation you described. It is very common for people to wardec PVE corps in hisec because they are easy targets. The problem is with the training corp not offering the proper training.

It may sound like I'm just saying HTFU, and to a degree I am, but think about it. EVE is brutal and if you can't handle that or don't like it then this game is probably not for you.

There will always be some people who just want to mission run by themselves all day and chat to a few buddies. To them I suggest staying in a NPC corp that cannot be wardecc'd and create a chat room with friends. It's simple, safe, and allows you to PVE your heart out. To strictly PVE in a player owned corp only gives one advantage and that is avoiding the NPC tax, but when compared to the risks and time lost of being in a constantly wardecc'd corporation, it's a small price to pay.

"Now wait a minute," you say, "I want to lead a training corp and teach people about EVE." To that I reply, "Great!"

Teach them everything about EVE. Teach them how to scout and avoid PVP they don't want to engage in. Teach them about how these griefers devote their time and ISK/money to trolling people and the best way to put them off is to deny them their excitement. No, this does not mean to stay docked when they camp you. Kill them when you can, be clever with your strategies, and don't throw yourselves into the fire. Don't want to fight them, or can't because you're solo? Fine, jumpclone somewhere else and do what you want, just be smart and keep an eye on local.

Even if you lose some ships should you decide to PVP, it's not the end of the world. It's part of learning, just don't be foolish enough to smacktalk the griefers (unless you kick their ass) because half the reason they grief is to hear people smacktalk. Ignore them or be cool. Should you develop a positive image of yourself, they may even drop the war and help you against future wardecs. Don't let yourself look like an ass.

If all of this still sounds like too much, consider doing operations in low-sec. Most highsec griefers are scared to go to lowsec themselves because the reality is they suck at PVP and need the safety of hisec to help them. If youre camped in station, jumpclone to lowsec and give those newbies new learning experiences. They will have to learn about PVP eventually, whether they learn willingly or unwillingly.

Training corps should never limit themselves to PVE and claim to be helpless when they're forced into PVP. Be creative, use your head, and you'll be fine.

Edit: there are plenty of systems in lowsec that are unpopulated. Don't look at systems like Old Man Star or Amamake and think they're all like that. Look off the beaten path if you're aiming for less PVP in your lowsec experience.


My understanding is that jumpclones require stupid high standing with an npc corp that owns a cloning vat. Also, regarding wardecs, I haven't seen any actual war. More like neutral scouted gank ops in shiny ships against new players in t1s. If that is your approach to pvp, you clearly suck at the game.

I'm a firm believer in off the beaten path lowsec systems, think I actually hopped past you down near goinard/lermivere earlier today.


Was the "you clearly suck at the game" directed at me? I'm going to assume the answer is "no" since that comment wouldn't make any sense in regards to my post. Regarding suicide gankers, they dont suck; they pick their targets based on how profitable it is. If a frigate is on Autopilot with a dozen PLEX in the hold with some rare loot, youre gonna get ganked.

Jumpclones are easy to get as someone pointed out there are corps that offer services for that. JCs arent limited to the station you originally got them in, either. When you JC, the target JC becomes active and your previous clone is left behind for future use. Using this, you can have JCs where you dont have great standings.

Also, if youre getting ganked by suicide fleets then youre likely in highly trafficked area, like Jita. My suggestion is not to autopilot when your cargo/fittings are worth more than your ship. Also dont fly what you cant afford to lose. Dont mission in the big hubs because youre more likely to get harrassed by canflippers and gankers. Faction/Officer fit ships are overkill for PVE and regardless aren't something newbies will have access to...unless they waste money buying PLEX so they can officer fit an Omen....in which case they need to die anyways.

And yes, I'm often around Goinard.


Was directed not at you but at those who get their kicks running wardecs vs new player corps in high financed by nullsec isk printers. When they probe you down with a neutral scanner and drop a collection of t2/3/faction cruisers on your t1 then promptly fly home and dock the term gank seems appropriate. Anyone who plays this way is bad.

I neither autopilot, haul plex into jita nor officer fit my ships. Spending 5x your ship value for an extra 5% to one stat does not appeal to me.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2014-02-24 03:45:51 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:

There's no incentive to play the game.


None that you've found, you mean.

But, this is a good thing. See, new players who become old players, they come into the game willing to learn. We were all new once, you seem to be not understanding this. And as you get older, you learn. And the more you learn, the more you realise you were always capable of competing.

The new players that don't become old players, though, there's a reason for that. It's not because they get ganked or can't compete, those are just the triggers for the mindset that already exists - you think EVE is, or expect it to be, like every other game and it's going to spoon-feed you your 'destiny'. Well, it's not like that at all, and the players who think that way, those are the kinds of players that don't become old players.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2014-02-24 03:48:18 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:


Well then if the game isn't about ISK or skill points, you'll have no trouble supporting a suggestion that EVE makes it so level 1 missions for characters under 15million skill points are given 10x more isk, and all accounts under 15mil SP are given 10x more SP generation.

The game isn't about ISK or SP, so lets get people like me outfitted in ships I want to fly faster, with more isk of my own for you to potentially take.

According to you, I'll lose it anyways. So giving new players like myself quicker training times and faster isk generation is mutually beneficial.


Sure, because no one will ever use the two character slots available on their account to abuse that.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#230 - 2014-02-24 03:50:45 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:

There's no incentive to play the game.


None that you've found, you mean.

But, this is a good thing. See, new players who become old players, they come into the game willing to learn. We were all new once, you seem to be not understanding this. And as you get older, you learn. And the more you learn, the more you realise you were always capable of competing.

The new players that don't become old players, though, there's a reason for that. It's not because they get ganked or can't compete, those are just the triggers for the mindset that already exists - you think EVE is, or expect it to be, like every other game and it's going to spoon-feed you your 'destiny'. Well, it's not like that at all, and the players who think that way, those are the kinds of players that don't become old players.


Think about how much isk you can make in an hour.

Think about all the potential match ups you can win.

Now realize me being new, I have none of that. The only thing you want me to do is repeatedly die so you can feel good about your selves for being the ones who caused it.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#231 - 2014-02-24 03:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Was directed not at you but at those who get their kicks running wardecs vs new player corps in high financed by nullsec isk printers. When they probe you down with a neutral scanner and drop a collection of t2/3/faction cruisers on your t1 then promptly fly home and dock the term gank seems appropriate. Anyone who plays this way is bad.


Who is playing this way though?

Highsec wardecs, sure. Every player run Corp and Alliance is subject to a wardec by one of the well known wardec Corps; and the way it works, it usually happens every few months. The goons get wardecced just the same as anyone else.

That's just part of the game and despite the carnage that my own Alliance has bought upon itself at the hands of the Marmites in our current war, generally it is easy enough to avoid war targets and go about regular play with just a little bit of effort before or early in a war.

It's really not that hard to avoid them and end with a clean war report at the end of the week, with the wardeccer having spent the 50 million+ to initiate the war to begin with.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#232 - 2014-02-24 03:55:19 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Eran Mintor wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
New people still have to actually pay for this game.

Being new, it's very unlikely you're going to be doing anything that can net you an excess of 650m+ isk in a month, especially taking into consideration all of the inevitable losses.

So since having completely inferior skills for everything puts me in a position to constantly lose, anything I can potentially do will have next to no pay out. Essentially, pay $180 for a game everyone else plays for free, making less, with no ability to invest time to increase the development of your own character.

There's no incentive to play the game. No matter what I do I know chances are I'll be the one getting taken advantage of in any encounter, and anything I can do, will be making so little progress financially in comparison to everyone else.

Why can't I at least get some sort of skill gain multiplier increase for logging in and doing something? Run a set of 5 missions, get 3x skill point generation for the next 24 hours.

As a new, non-alt, there's no real reason for me to log in. Run level 1 missions in a frigate for 4 hours and gain 5 million isk. Or, watch cartoons in my underpants eating icecream screaming at the coyote to catch the bird, for 12 months becoming severely obese, then logging in with a character who can properly fly a battle cruiser and make 5 million isk in 5 minutes.

Knowing the potential, knowing that everything you do is peanuts compared to the mountains of isk others are receiving is a huge deterrent to consider investing time.

The game is not set up for new people to actually play.


This game is not about ISK or Skillpoints.

Friends, knowledge, and experience account for a lot more.

If you, a newbie, were to buy a fully trained account youd be just as bad at the game then, as you are now...Only youd lose things worth billions instead of millions and wouldve wasted a ton of RL money to play. Play the game and build your way up, learning as you go.


Well then if the game isn't about ISK or skill points, you'll have no trouble supporting a suggestion that EVE makes it so level 1 missions for characters under 15million skill points are given 10x more isk, and all accounts under 15mil SP are given 10x more SP generation.

The game isn't about ISK or SP, so lets get people like me outfitted in ships I want to fly faster, with more isk of my own for you to potentially take.

According to you, I'll lose it anyways. So giving new players like myself quicker training times and faster isk generation is mutually beneficial.


I said the game isnt about ISK or SP, I did not say ISK and SP dont hold some sort of value. You seem to be choosing not to take the advice offered and instead whine, like someone will eventually take pity on someone who refuses to help themself. If you dont want to take the time to train up like everyone else, you can buy a character or play a game that fits your playstyle. I suggest games with cheatcodes as that seems to be your style.

What you are suggesting is that slowly working your way up is unrealistic and nobody pays for thia game. You are incorrect. Are you going to tell me that thousands of older players didnt start out as newbies and work their way to where they are today?

Stop being lazy. Approach this game with a different attitude or you wont last. While I think the game needs more players, it doesnt need people who believe they're entitled to an easy button. EVE is not that game.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2014-02-24 03:55:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Divine Entervention wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:

There's no incentive to play the game.


None that you've found, you mean.

But, this is a good thing. See, new players who become old players, they come into the game willing to learn. We were all new once, you seem to be not understanding this. And as you get older, you learn. And the more you learn, the more you realise you were always capable of competing.

The new players that don't become old players, though, there's a reason for that. It's not because they get ganked or can't compete, those are just the triggers for the mindset that already exists - you think EVE is, or expect it to be, like every other game and it's going to spoon-feed you your 'destiny'. Well, it's not like that at all, and the players who think that way, those are the kinds of players that don't become old players.


Think about how much isk you can make in an hour.

Think about all the potential match ups you can win.

Now realize me being new, I have none of that. The only thing you want me to do is repeatedly die so you can feel good about your selves for being the ones who caused it.


Bit of a contradiction there. Based on your opinion, if I'm so thrilled about all the potential match ups I can win, why would small fry like you even interest me?

On the point at hand, though, we've all been there mate. You don't get special consideration for whining that "it's too hard for me!!" We all had to go through it to get to where we are, and if you want to get to where we are, you'll go through it to. If you can't handle it, then you'll quit. That's the way it is, and has always been. It's actually much easier than it was just two years ago when I started out, let alone how it was the seven before that.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#234 - 2014-02-24 03:59:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Divine Entervention wrote:


Well then if the game isn't about ISK or skill points, you'll have no trouble supporting a suggestion that EVE makes it so level 1 missions for characters under 15million skill points are given 10x more isk, and all accounts under 15mil SP are given 10x more SP generation.

The game isn't about ISK or SP, so lets get people like me outfitted in ships I want to fly faster, with more isk of my own for you to potentially take.

According to you, I'll lose it anyways. So giving new players like myself quicker training times and faster isk generation is mutually beneficial.


Malcanis wrote:
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
and
Malcanis, in another post also wrote:
The secondary corollary is that when new players propose a change, they invariably lack the experience and insight to see how the change would again be exploited by older players far more efficiently than themselves.
Both apply here.

Every man and his dog would abuse the hell out of it, and CCP know it. You grossly underestimate the deviousness of Eve players, even CCP with all their years of experience of dealing with us and despite employing former players, underestimate us sometimes.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#235 - 2014-02-24 04:06:08 UTC
So now the two of you are devolving your arguments into "go play another game" statements because I fail to buy into your "drink this" without you answering what you put in the cup.

What it appears to be, is you're elitists. You feel that every new person must pretend EVE is a "Escaping Shawshank" simulator, and I should have to crawl through a year's worth of your excrement to make it to a point where I can begin feeling like I'm not a doormat.

This game is like an inverted pyramid of opportunity. All of those great reasons you have to play over shadow anything I could possibly do. Any missions I run in an hour couldn't pay for one gun on your ships, while 1 mission you would run would pay for 100 ships for me.

It's not fun knowing that I have to pay for a year just to wait and see if I might potentially enjoy what this game may some day present to me of it's being capable of.

How about we come up with some ideas to offer an incentive to new people to actually want to do something other than periodically check their skill points? Like, I dunno, log in, fly their ship around and shoot things. Because as is, knowing the disparity between potential, it's rather deterring.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#236 - 2014-02-24 04:11:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Divine Entervention wrote:
What it appears to be, is you're elitists. You feel that every new person must pretend EVE is a "Escaping Shawshank" simulator, and I should have to crawl through a year's worth of your excrement to make it to a point where I can begin feeling like I'm not a doormat.


No, not at all. I don't get that same interpretation from their posts.

It seems to be more a case of, all players go through the same thing and for those that adapt to it, they emerge at some point to be able to branch out into a whole range of different activities.

Since everyone else has done it, there really is a light at the end of the tunnel and it's not all doom and gloom. It just takes an open mind and willingness to adapt, both of which are qualities that will make you even better once you are experienced.

There is not a lot to be gained by being given a huge SP increase or faster ISK flow at the start; as what is really needed is time to develop as a player. Developing your character faster than you develop as a player is likely to lead to more trouble than anything else.

Driving a Formula 1 car is not something many people are ever prepared for, but what is known is that new drivers definitely aren't. New drivers are best off in lower powered cars that they can control.

Of course, the thing with EvE is that the small cars are all on the same track as the Formula 1 cars, but it is possible to avoid them and enjoy your development until you are ready to get into something bigger.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#237 - 2014-02-24 04:20:26 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
How about we come up with some ideas to offer an incentive to new people to actually want to do something other than periodically check their skill points? Like, I dunno, log in, fly their ship around and shoot things. Because as is, knowing the disparity between potential, it's rather deterring.
The only thing preventing you from doing so is you.

We've been where you are, we know that there are avenues open to you to avoid the things you find distasteful, you just don't want to travel them.

Eve is not about instant gratification, if you play Eve you have to be prepared for the long game.

Newbies have it far easier now than they did when I started, they have a halfway decent NPE, a much larger range of useful ships and modules. They don't have to spend months doing the learning skills, highsec PvP mechanics are much more in their favour because there's much less chance of accidentally starting a fight, if wardecced they can recruit allies. Prior to my starting Eve I know that several changes were made to Concord, including the halving of response times and making it a bannable offence to evade them. There's videos on youtube of a group called m0o tanking them from the early days.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#238 - 2014-02-24 04:21:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Divine Entervention wrote:
So now the two of you are devolving your arguments into "go play another game" statements because I fail to buy into your "drink this" without you answering what you put in the cup.


No. If that's all you're getting from what's been said, then you can only be wilfully ignoring what's been said. Because we've made it quite clear for you.

Quote:
What it appears to be, is you're elitists. You feel that every new person must pretend EVE is a "Escaping Shawshank" simulator, and I should have to crawl through a year's worth of your excrement to make it to a point where I can begin feeling like I'm not a doormat.


Elitists are defined as people who think they're better than other people, therefore they know better. Examples of elitism can be found occurring frequently in FPS's, with players who think their higher K/D ratios make them more knowledgeable about the game, or in sport, or even that to which so much of society panders to and perpetuates as a result, film celebrities. This is not the case here. We know better because of experience, and that's called actual authority. For example, if you move to Detroit and someone who's been living there for a few years tells you not to walk down a certain street, are you going to call them elitist and throw a tantrum about it? It's only a year's worth if you make it a year. This is a game where you decide your own fate.

Quote:
This game is like an inverted pyramid of opportunity. All of those great reasons you have to play over shadow anything I could possibly do. Any missions I run in an hour couldn't pay for one gun on your ships, while 1 mission you would run would pay for 100 ships for me.

It's not fun knowing that I have to pay for a year just to wait and see if I might potentially enjoy what this game may some day present to me of it's being capable of.


Ohnoes!!! We have to PAY for our service!! How unfair that CCP should make us pay for the right to use their IP!!!

For the record kiddo, I'm still subbed, I have been for two years, and pay monthly. I did since I was a little newb getting blown up repeatedly myself, until I found someone who could help me learn PVP, and a place to practice.

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How about we come up with some ideas to offer an incentive to new people to actually want to do something other than periodically check their skill points? Like, I dunno, log in, fly their ship around and shoot things. Because as is, knowing the disparity between potential, it's rather deterring.


The incentives are already there, that's why players like myself have been playing the game to its fullest, even when I had low SP. I have never logged on to EVE just to update my skill-queue. The incentive is the single-shard environment, the uniqueness, the promise of incentives to come if you work for them. But that's the crux of the matter, isn't it. You want free stuff without having to work for it. That's what this really comes down to. That's why you're ignoring the important points, like the fact that....

Everyone that is old in the game was new once, and in exactly the same boat as you are now. So, in the words of CCP, HTFU or GTFO.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#239 - 2014-02-24 04:33:04 UTC
Shame there's no way to give first time subscribers 2m isk to allocate. I know this would be abused relentlessly to create easy bake specialist alts. I guess it's impossible to effectively restrict this to first account/characters only.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#240 - 2014-02-24 04:37:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
So now the two of you are devolving your arguments into "go play another game" statements because I fail to buy into your "drink this" without you answering what you put in the cup.


No. If that's all you're getting from what's been said, then you can only be wilfully ignoring what's been said. Because we've made it quite clear for you.

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What it appears to be, is you're elitists. You feel that every new person must pretend EVE is a "Escaping Shawshank" simulator, and I should have to crawl through a year's worth of your excrement to make it to a point where I can begin feeling like I'm not a doormat.


Elitists are defined as people who think they're better than other people, therefore they know better. Examples of elitism can be found occurring frequently in FPS's, with players who think their higher K/D ratios make them more knowledgeable about the game, or in sport, or even that to which so much of society panders to and perpetuates as a result, film celebrities. This is not the case here. We know better because of experience, and that's called actual authority. For example, if you move to Detroit and someone who's been living there for a few years tells you not to walk down a certain street, are you going to call them elitist and throw a tantrum about it? It's only a year's worth if you make it a year. This is a game where you decide your own fate.

Quote:
This game is like an inverted pyramid of opportunity. All of those great reasons you have to play over shadow anything I could possibly do. Any missions I run in an hour couldn't pay for one gun on your ships, while 1 mission you would run would pay for 100 ships for me.

It's not fun knowing that I have to pay for a year just to wait and see if I might potentially enjoy what this game may some day present to me of it's being capable of.


Ohnoes!!! We have to PAY for our service!! How unfair that CCP should make us pay for the right to use their IP!!!

For the record kiddo, I'm still subbed, I have been for two years, and pay monthly. I did since I was a little newb getting blown up repeatedly myself, until I found someone who could help me learn PVP, and a place to practice.

Quote:
How about we come up with some ideas to offer an incentive to new people to actually want to do something other than periodically check their skill points? Like, I dunno, log in, fly their ship around and shoot things. Because as is, knowing the disparity between potential, it's rather deterring.


The incentives are already there, that's why players like myself have been playing the game to its fullest, even when I had low SP. I have never logged on to EVE just to update my skill-queue. The incentive is the single-shard environment, the uniqueness, the promise of incentives to come if you work for them. But that's the crux of the matter, isn't it. You want free stuff without having to work for it. That's what this really comes down to. That's why you're ignoring the important points, like the fact that....

Everyone that is old in the game was new once, and in exactly the same boat as you are now. So, in the words of CCP, HTFU or GTFO.



That's actually not true at all.

Every day it becomes harder for a new person to start. Every day, everyone who's played has another day's worth of advantage.

Also, the people who all started at the same time? Yea, no one was leagues beyond them. They all went through it together. They were not limited by their time invested, because they were all investing the same time. Their only limitations were their choices.

People like me? We have literally zero opportunity to be where those who've been playing for 11 years are. 11 years of you creating routines to systematically subjugate and exploit new people for your own personal benefit and enjoyment.

So I'm suppose to be motivated to do what, right now? with just barely over 1 million in skill points. Should I outfit my frigate with low DPS rail guns since I don't have the power grid management to be able to have higher dps guns, while having an afterburner instead of a micro warp drive or a small shield extender instead of a medium because of the severe disadvantage I'm at because of skill point disparity?

How about I just fly around in a shuttle, open up conversations with everyone in local and send them 1million isk? That's essentially what you're asking me to do. For no real reason, to put myself into vulernable positions with zero real possibility to stand on an equal footing.

"get more people" OK cool so now 4 of us can run a level 1 mission together and get even less.

There's no incentive for new people to play. The uniqueness of a single shard? LOL. Unique to you maybe, seeing all these possibilities you have, while all I see is the possibility of loss because it's the only thing showing up withing 2,147,483,647 km on the directional scanner.