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Skill Discussions

 
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My fear of the skill system...
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Cadus Anzomi
Guns of Binary Stars
#1 - 2014-02-12 15:10:12 UTC
I know I´ve posted a fear of the skill system in the future before, and don´t get me wrong. I really love the system.
I think it always will function for new players and that they always will be able to specialize rather fast. And that´s just the thing...
I love the fact the people specializes in different areas, not that people learn everything eventually.

And when I´m expressing critisism, I always back it up with solutions.
I know CCP have their gamestyle and so on, but I would recommend to borrow something a game called Hearts of Iron.
The skill system works quite similar there, but they have one thing that is a perfect add.

When you skill in a certain area, let´s say Navigation in EVE, you prevent a sort of decay in that subject. You may skill the same speed in all skills within Navigation as long as you don´t leave them alone for a certain time.
If you leave a group of skills (trade etc) untouched for a period of time, they get harder to skill in. They have "decayed" so to speak.
But if you start to train tradeskills again, you lower the decay as long as you stay in the group of skills, but increase decay in the other areas. Some areas more than others depending how relative similar they are to eachother.

I also think the races and schools should affect a ground stat for this as well. That caldari should have a slower decay effect on missiles and shields for example etc.

This would get the skillsystem more cool than it already is, and make proffesions in the game more unique. It ain´t fun when evetually everybody will know all skills.
Please save the skillsystem before it´s too late.

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-02-12 15:47:08 UTC
This is an interesting idea but I don't see what it really offers over the current system.

I guess it allows people to "remap" more frequently but also makes remapping a slow process rather than an instant action. An awful lot would depend on how fast categories decay and how fast that decay can be reversed.

Would it be possible to switch between science and spaceship command every 24 hours and thus train both at a non decayed rate forever?
Cadus Anzomi
Guns of Binary Stars
#3 - 2014-02-12 16:08:17 UTC
How much and how long between in the decay process could be discussed. It´s just a theory there without the exact amount.
It offers the current skills to last even longer, but offers no penalty for new players to specialize.

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#4 - 2014-02-12 19:12:50 UTC

Maybe, it looks like more work. This system alrady rewards people that remap and focus on a specific skillset (1 year) and penalizes skills outside of those. I don't see this adding anything. You could pitch it in features and ideas.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#5 - 2014-02-12 19:28:11 UTC
It takes 6ish years to hit 100 million SP. I have heard 20+ years, to train all skills to V.

At some point, you reach a stage where most everything you train is a level V skill.
Many of those are 20 days and up.
I personally would not want these V's to become 'longer', for any reason.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#6 - 2014-02-12 21:45:54 UTC
lolno

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-02-12 22:06:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Frank Millar
Interesting concept, but I don't see any use for it, tbh.

Also, one could debate the need to train all skills to V. Personally, I don't see the point.

This character looks set to max out roughly at the 150 mil sp mark, flying most of the subcap ships, excluding T2 destroyers, HICs and T2 battleships (I am strange like that).

When that happens, I will likely start training another character with other goals, maybe with a carrier and/or dreadnought in mind. Or maybe one with only the above mentioned T2 destroyers and HICs.
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#8 - 2014-02-13 16:23:38 UTC
Don't see how this would help a new player. It sounds like taking 2 steps forward 1 step back all the time. 1 of the great things in EVE is that you can take a break from it and keep training or even stop training and come back where you left off. This would break all that. I haven't trained anything for 2 months so all my skills are decaying? Hell no.. It takes time to learn these things and time put in should be valued up not down.

Lots of us, including me, started EVE at a much later time then the first generation. In my case the first gen had 6 years of training on me. What you do is, you start training yourself, you catch up as much as you can and eventually you can do the same things as they can. Don't forget, as you age, people quit around you or stop training cause clone cost get to high. Eventually you find yourself in top SP ranks whatever corp you go to and you realize that those few diehards on top of EVE-board are the exception, not the rule.

In conclusion, the system you are suggestion is unneeded. It wouldn't add anything.

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-02-16 15:31:59 UTC
This sh*t again??
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-02-17 17:48:24 UTC
"this change will greatly benefit new players." you know, the ones who are still trying different career paths and have to train across the board anyway to get a bare minimum in core skills.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Cadus Anzomi
Guns of Binary Stars
#11 - 2014-02-17 18:09:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Cadus Anzomi
Then have less decay in the beginning. Problem solved.
This works very well in Hearts of Iron and makes every individual more unique.
Later this skillsystem (that is good today), will faulter. Everybody will know everything.
The system I suggest makes this future more far away. And professions more unique, because specialization require more hard work.
And I want more skills in total in the game as well. PI is too easy to master etc.

And as I said, this is just a theory I mainly want CCP to think about.
Think I care about the game more than to get all skills to brag about earlier.

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
Erik Sokarad
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2014-02-17 18:17:19 UTC
way too many unintended consequences to the idea. for example, what about alts? does skill decay have a negative impact on an alt who is not actively training (because that takes plex)? to be fair you would need to limit 'decay' to active subscriptions, so as to prevent old players from simply not coming back.

in order for the 'decay' idea to work, you would need skills to decay to the current training times, thus allowing your chosen area to train faster. so nobody slows down, instead we speed up. faster training would benefit new players certainly, but it would mainly help alts over-specialize into their chosen roles. the real 'new' players would be as lost as always, and not know how to take advantage of the system.

i doubt CCP would ever use an idea like this, as it would screw up game balance of training in a lot of ways. if you want to help new players, then simply give a skill bonus for those with low SP totals. a training boost to everyone with 5 million SP or less would specifically help new players, and could have an impact similar to those boosters that only new accounts can use.
Cadus Anzomi
Guns of Binary Stars
#13 - 2014-02-17 18:25:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Cadus Anzomi
Erik Sokarad wrote:
way too many unintended consequences to the idea. for example, what about alts? does skill decay have a negative impact on an alt who is not actively training (because that takes plex)? to be fair you would need to limit 'decay' to active subscriptions, so as to prevent old players from simply not coming back.

in order for the 'decay' idea to work, you would need skills to decay to the current training times, thus allowing your chosen area to train faster. so nobody slows down, instead we speed up. faster training would benefit new players certainly, but it would mainly help alts over-specialize into their chosen roles. the real 'new' players would be as lost as always, and not know how to take advantage of the system.

i doubt CCP would ever use an idea like this, as it would screw up game balance of training in a lot of ways. if you want to help new players, then simply give a skill bonus for those with low SP totals. a training boost to everyone with 5 million SP or less would specifically help new players, and could have an impact similar to those boosters that only new accounts can use.


The decay idea doens´t have to be super high either. It sounds on people that it would take 10 times longer than the other skills.
And yes, a faster training in the specializations (why not), though more skills. Make the professions a lot deeper.
The problem with new players today is that they quit playing on the superboring tutorials/careers. Seen it so many times. They should be more fun to play and hook the player from the beginning, like the cool intro movies.
I agree on your training boost idea for new players.

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-02-17 23:42:10 UTC
This just seems like an irrelevant, overly complicated change to a system that doesnt need changing for zero reason or benefit.
But sure, seems legit...

There is no Bob.

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Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#15 - 2014-02-20 01:01:50 UTC
Anything that discourages one race of characters from cross training multiple races is a terrible idea.

End of story.
Eccon Dustwaver
Excalibur Industries
#16 - 2014-02-24 01:46:23 UTC
Personally as someone who has been playing this game for a decade I can say the skill system sucks. No skill should take a week or even a month to train. Also each character should be able to be trained on its own timer without having to pay a months subscription for PLEX each to do so. In the end when Star Citizen releases this will hurt EVE in the long run because people want to jump right into the action and not spending months at a time paying to basically just train skills.
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2014-02-25 17:18:12 UTC
I hate it that I am a pvper on this character & I will not get any of the 4 BS skills to lvl 5 before I hit the 200 mil skill point .

But on the other hand I will have all the mastery certs for all sub BS combat ships in the game. :)

R.I.P. Vile Rat
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#18 - 2014-02-25 23:58:50 UTC

This is a bad idea. Maybe one of the worst I have seen in a long time.

Anything that slows skill training will effect new players the most long term.

It will also force people with only one toon to not specialize as they will have to keep changing to currently unwanted/unneeded skills to reduce the 'decay' for the future.




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Cadus Anzomi
Guns of Binary Stars
#19 - 2014-02-26 00:29:28 UTC
Then naturally my next question will be: What is your solution for the skillsystem when everybody owns most of all skills?
For me, the skills is a big part of the game.

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
OnlyFleets.
#20 - 2014-02-26 07:21:05 UTC
Cadus Anzomi wrote:
Then naturally my next question will be: What is your solution for the skillsystem when everybody owns most of all skills?
For me, the skills is a big part of the game.

It will be 10 years until Dr Caymus runs out of skills assuming no more are added which we know it will be.

How to win EVE
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