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Does Eve need new players?

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BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#181 - 2014-02-23 11:13:29 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
Heh, well, it was the immediate response I expected having read many other posts. You start to see a pattern, and I have seen many of the type. Looks like a struck a nerve ;) Regardless, it was a commentary on those who resort to flaming rather than a reasoned argument. Many of those have been made here, even if I don't agree with many of them.

One thing I noticed is that much of the discussion seems to focus on this idea of skill points. My earlier mention of them, or of being forever behind the players who started earlier, are way off the point. I don't think you should change the skillpoint system, it should take time to get up in level, and choosing and learning the skills is part of the process as you learn the game. And low or null sec is not the issue on this thread, either.

My point is that it is too easy for a few players with advanced ships and modules to prey on carefully chosen small corps of players who haven't developed the skills or ships to be able to effectively defend themselves. In low and null sec, this is not the problem. You go there when you are ready. In high sec it should not be so easy for multiple war decs causing these newer players to have to spend a week or more docked up rather than playing the game. And you can throw all the "they shoulds" around that you want, but the only real option for those players is to dock up because most haven't learned enough about the game to understand or have worked towards the skills and equipment to do anything else.

But reading through these, it is obvious that so many people on here look for any justification to support their attacks on people who can't defend themselves because they can't risk going after people in their own league.

Now that was a good reply....
Sastiquanto
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#182 - 2014-02-23 11:22:05 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
Ok, so I will get ready for the flames...
But I've read some news articles about how CCP is not attracting the new players needed to keep the game going and is trying to raise revenues through gimmicks like the noble exchange. Personally, I don't care what my toon is wearing. I'm more interested in what is going on outside the station.


At some point, in some distant future, what goes on inside the station, will have an impact on what goes on outside the station ;)

Quote:
I've tried to get new guys involved in the game, and it always comes down to the same problem. There is a massive advantage for people who have been playing for a long time, and also for those who can devote a lot of time to the game. Casual players are going to be at a huge disadvantage. Not a big deal in itself, but the problem is that many players get their jollies by preying on the new players. And fuel their sense of keyboard based superiority by calling them carebears, telling them that Eve is brutal, get over it, etc.

Now if these players roam into lowsec where there is an expectation of being attacked, then sure, that's their fault. But when new players are being bombarded by suicide gankers and war decs in high sec, then they feel like they don't have a place to go where they can learn and build up to the point that they can join in the pvp stuff.


If new players go beyond the borders of empire, they get a punch in the face, true.
Suicide gankers, having a go on new players in empire, might just be players having a load of isk they need off their hands, as the profit vs loss in ganking a player under 4 months of SP, will NEVER replenish the ship(s) lost in the ganking.
Wardecs... read on ;)

Quote:
I have friends with a high sec corp. They like to do pve and they don't bother other players. Their corp is specifically listed as a training corp for new players. Someone who is logged into the game 20 hours a day war decced the training corp so he could attack them in high sec. Funny thing is, this person only comes out of station in the nice tech 3 ships he has to attack the players when they are alone. When approached by several of the corps ships, he stays right next to station and docks up as soon as he drops to hull. Won't come out if there are more than 3 or 4 of the corps members online. So while this person overwhelms this corps players when they are alone, the kills get the attention of other corps that act the same way, so a training corp ends up getting multiple war decs in high sec. So their only option is to stay docked up. So they end up paying for a game they can't play because a lot of other players can't get their jollies by "picking on someone their own size" essentially.


Having a corporation, is, and will always be, an open door with a golden invitation, to be wardecced. Especially if its widely known that the people in the corp are newbs. ANY experienced player knows this, and the CEO should, to some extend, be held responsible for the losses suffered thanks for a wardec.
Want to help new players in PVE: Make a channel.

As for the Tier3 pilot... As in RL, theres also major loosers in EvE ;)

Quote:
And so they are going to get frustrated and leave the game. And it's going to deter new players from ever getting into the game. Is the ease of attacking newer players in high sec worth the game not getting new players? Not every player who could be paying for the game and promoting the development is going to be able to devote the time needed to become a null sec pirate. But these players benefit the game in many ways. Can the game survive if the majority of players are able to play for free by selling plex? Someone without the time to farm isk is going to have to pay actual money for time, and that money is what keeps CCP developing. Is it going to be much fun when driving away new and potential players results in the game dying off?


PLEX... some see it as CCP loosing money, some see it as CCP MAKING money.
Consider this:
PLEX can only exist in-game, if bought in RL.
This means, that nobody are playing for free, since every PLEX in the game, is bought and payed in RL for RL money.
Because you can pay for PLEX for in-game money, the need for PLEX is higher than the need for subscriptions, thanks to people needing / wanting more ISK for they gameplay.

So in essence: PLEX is making CCP more money, than pure subscriptions will ever do.


Quote:
Ok, let the flaming begin.

No need for flaming on a perfectly fine ranter :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#183 - 2014-02-23 11:32:40 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
My point is that it is too easy for a few players with advanced ships and modules to prey on carefully chosen small corps of players who haven't developed the skills or ships to be able to effectively defend themselves. In low and null sec, this is not the problem. You go there when you are ready. In high sec it should not be so easy for multiple war decs causing these newer players to have to spend a week or more docked up rather than playing the game.
Why not? What's causing these newer players to “have to” spend weeks docked up is poor leadership, nothing else. Highsec is really no different from low or null: you get into a corp when you're ready. If you're not ready, you shouldn't be in a corp. If the only response to a wardec you can think of is to stay docked up, you're not ready. This has nothing to do with new players.

Quote:
And you can throw all the "they shoulds" around that you want, but the only real option for those players is to dock up because most haven't learned enough about the game to understand or have worked towards the skills and equipment to do anything else.
No, that's not the only option. They also have the option to fight, to relocate, to gang together, to drop corp, to find allies, to hire mercenaries, etc. etc etc. Their lack of understanding of the game is something that the corp leadership should be able to compensate for, or they have no place leading a corp and taking new players on board. The skills and equipment are non-factors because you can always work around those.

All you're really saying is that most corps are highly unsuited for newbies. That is not a problem with the newbies or with the wardec rules or with anything other than the unfit leaders who have started those corps.
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#184 - 2014-02-23 12:58:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Sebastian N Cain
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
As the Milgram-experiment has shown, humans are mostly quite terrible creatures. One can be happy if he can claim that he doesn't give a damn about the suffering of other people, because at least he doesn't enjoy it.


That's not a valid conclusion from the Milgram experiment, which has been discredited in it's basic findings because the data was manipulated.

The Milgram experiment has been repeated several times without data manipulation and the findings have been very different on several occasions, with several also finding similar results to the original (I'll edit later with some references to support that statement).

I think it's kind of sad that you have such a pessimistic view of human nature, which I'm sure you apply equally to yourself as you do to others.

Some setups of Milgrams experiment were discredited due to manipulation, yes. But not all, and as you said, the results has been reproduced by others. It depends how the people are told to do it, not every setup will work.

Also that experiment had a variant that was quite a bit more disturbing. Instead of using actors the scientists used cute little puppies. And because the scientists are human and therefore a-holes, nothing was staged in that experiment. The puppies were tortured to death by electric shocks for real. Twenty out of twenty-six test persons went all the way.

Aside from this experiment there are of course others like the prisoner/guardian simulation and of course the news to show how humans really are. My view is rather realistic than pessimistic.

And yes, i absolutely include myself in that assessment. I am an a-hole just like everyone else.

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2014-02-23 13:57:47 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Basically the community is comprised of people you would not want to associate with people offline.

The internet does not seperate you from yourself. Your actions are representative of yourself. You are you, regardless of the imagined wall you've put up between yourself and your computer.


I'm not sure you understand the difference between being a **** on the internet, and playing a video game. I gank someone in EVE, I'm playing a video game. I then tell them they're a failure in life, I'm being a ****, whether it's on the internet or otherwise. That's when what you said matters, when you're being a ****, but when you're just playing a game, it's irrelevant. It's like saying people who shoot you in an FPS are bad people because 'shooting someone on the internet is no different from shooting them in real life'. Because it's very different - one is a game, the other is real life.

The only problem here is people who are unable to separate reality from fantasy, not people who think they can disassociate from themselves when they're participating in that fantasy.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#186 - 2014-02-23 15:36:31 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

The only problem here is people who are unable to separate reality from fantasy, not people who think they can disassociate from themselves when they're participating in that fantasy.


That, and those people want to enforce their disability on everyone else. I call it The Tyranny of the Thin-Skinned.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Oblivion King
Doomheim
#187 - 2014-02-23 15:41:17 UTC
The thing that I love about EvE is that it provides both for newbies AND for long-LOOOONG time veterans, there is not 1 single game out there that you can differentiate a 1 year player from a 2 month old player and I absolutely hated that, the only difference in other games is "gold/money". "Veterans" are barely acknowledged in other games, and you want to take that away from EvE?

GTFO
Mag's
Azn Empire
#188 - 2014-02-23 15:54:26 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:


Your corporation appears to be one that does not engage in nefarious acts.

Your website says you do not recruit hi-sec killers and pirates.

People who engage in such activities are morally bankrupt, and more likely to be similar offline.

Make a thread commenting on removing player killing all together in hi-sec.

Make a thread suggesting to make concord response times faster, or Low-sec harder to kill defensive targets.

Watch your reponses, and tell me then more people are aligned with your mentality.
So by your logic, those that engage in chess are most likely murderers in RL? Do they all run amok through Europe, killing kings and queens?

Also, why shouldn't people be against changing the very nature of the game? Why is that so hard to understand? Rather like arguing against removing hotels in Monopoly, because someone doesn't like that aspect of the game and wants them gone.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#189 - 2014-02-23 16:22:50 UTC
When I started playing 6 years ago, I was led away from PvP.

The CEO in the corp I was in would tell us all to stay docked up during a wardec. I was told to never, under any circumstances, go to low sec. I was told to mission for standings. I was one of those people that was told that I need this, that, and the other thing to be viable in PvP.

The result, I am a 50m SP character who sucks at PvP and has missed out on a lot of what this game has to offer. I have really good corp and faction standings which in the grand scheme of things is worth **** all.

I will confirm that IRL I ******* hate people. Not any person in particular. Just all of them. I blame it on tending bar for 4 1/2 years. ******* drunks make humanity look ******* ********.

I hate people in game too! They whine and cry and complain every day about how they want the game changed to meet their desires instead of just playing the god damn game the way it is. Bunch of whining assholes.

I did see a corp advertisement for Red Federation and am considering joining to have some fun in the other parts of this game that I was cheated out of when I first started playing.

And I really don't give a **** if people call me a carebear. Bears are ******* awesome.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#190 - 2014-02-23 17:23:29 UTC
Eve is like reading the original text of Sir Gwaine and the Green Knight,. Long, hard, complicated, delicate. Then you throw humans into the equasion, complicating it further. All that mixed together results in a very limited audience. They can advertise this puppy all they want but until they simplify some things, they will have a very limited increase in clientele. Now the better question is weather or not eve needs to be this complicated? On a side note I find that upcomming space games may redirect advertising attempts and possibly pull some players away from eve.
For example Star citizen looks fantastic as does space engineer. The ability to pick out each piece of my ship, then interact within the stations and ships, makes for a far more personal experience. Therefore drawing me in more. But I retire by saying that this has all been said before however ccp does not listen.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2014-02-24 00:24:43 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
So it looks like the elitists vs. rational people divide has erupted into open war here. What fun

First of all, saying that SP is irrelevant amounts to nothing short of inexcusable stupidity, or simple denial. When I started this game, any pvp encounter (players shooting at each other's spaceships; the idea of market pvp is utter nonsense) I engaged in was going to pit me against someone with access to better ships and better mods whose ship and often times drones performed vastly better than mine by simple virtue of the fact that their skill queue has been running far longer. In order to change this, I have to change the terms of the engagement away from a simple 1v1 which is unwinnable for me. And since part of being an elite pvp player is avoiding any fight you aren't 100% guaranteed to win, this means that my time in lowsec is spent avoiding all combat whilst hunting furiously for month old toons in npc corps. We could spend a lot of time on the details and semantics; but expecting new players to gleefully sacrifice their ship to someone whose own ship is better at everything because they've been playing longer, and then express their undying gratitude for the lesson; you're truly dense if you repeat this idiocy.

What did I learn? Don't fight people older than me flying assault frigates, also known as 90% of solo roamers.

As far as hisec wardecs are concerned, I don't quite see the point other than providing targets for spacerich merc alts supplemented by neutral combat scanners. I can't fight your t2/faction cruisers with inties in the lead and when you see faction drones on a killmail, you KNOW someone has too much money. My options are 1) hide in lowsec, which can be fun but doesn't make **** for money (exploration is tedious and unrewarding especially if you don't want to waste a month training the applicable skills.) Or 2) I can just dock whenever WT are online, which would be 24/7. Local tank isn't much good when they don't have to use a hostile toon to stalk you.

You know what? I agree that a lot of this **** makes to game interesting. I'm not necessarily in favor of removing the mechanics for hisec ganking/griefing.

What I dislike are the elitist scum who claim that we're on an equal footing when they have 100m sp and I have 2m. It's a game, don't take yourself so seriously. If your idea of fun is denying it to other people, at least don't insult their intelligence by pretending it's a fair fight. The comparisons to chess or CS are terrible, I don't start a chess match with an extra pawn instead of a queen and Counterstrike doesn't require me to spend a month dodging AWPs with a glock before I have the skills to use an mp5.

There should be a place in EVE where people can generate income while skilling up in relative safety; that place is hisec. I you can't find a good fight anywhere else and your sole joy in playing eve is trying to make people ragequit who you have a default advantage over - if this is true then I think this game has bigger problems than the increasing difficulty of picking up cheap killmails in hisec.

If you enjoy being an elitist *******, don't insult me by trying to rationalize it. Hell, you could even stop.



Hey there kiddo, sorry to interrupt, but how about you scroll back to the kill I have against an '06 toon with what I would imagine would be over 100mil SP. I'm a 2012 toon, with 30mil SP. Then, if you're still confused, I can go dig up example after example for you of new players beating older ones with more SP than them. If you still haven't figured it out by then, give it a few years and you will when YOU start getting beat by players with less SP because you basically haven't learned anything about EVE.


Oh hi "kiddo," I'm glad to hear about your ability to get a kill with 30m sp. I have 3m, and some of that had to go towards isk generating skills; I couldn't dump it all in frigates since I don't have a nullsec alt funneling me money. Wanna trade accounts? I'm down. Feel free to check my killboard in a year; in the meantime consider telling me how many months before I can play the game.

I've actually been roaming lowsec since the day I could fully fit my atron. Most of my pvp losses have been against skilled up droneboats or assault frigates; I've yet to die to a non t2 finishing blow. Your ship doing everything better than mine matters. I don't see how anyone can deny that.
Yosef Brinalle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2014-02-24 00:39:01 UTC
EVE does not need new players bacause it does not deserve new players. 10 years on and this unpolished mind numbingly illogical sci-fantasy blather is all they have to show for it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#193 - 2014-02-24 00:39:42 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Your ship doing everything better than mine matters. I don't see how anyone can deny that.

If you look closer, you'll see that no-one is denying it. What people are denying is the claim that newbies don't stand a chance against older players and can't catch up, or that SP is a factor that determines the outcome of fights.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#194 - 2014-02-24 00:51:21 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I've actually been roaming lowsec since the day I could fully fit my atron. Most of my pvp losses have been against skilled up droneboats or assault frigates; I've yet to die to a non t2 finishing blow. Your ship doing everything better than mine matters. I don't see how anyone can deny that.


We might have similar paths, though I'm just a few months earlier. I've been just about constantly pvping since day 4 in the game, initially in highsec duels and then after moving to lowsec. Stupidly (or very educationally) my first move was to Ammamake and after getting my butt handed to me regularly I moved to Old Man Star, which looking back on now is very lol worthy.

I still maintain that SP are secondary to pilot skills and aside from racial frigate and the primary gun type/missiles you want to use, you can get away with training other skills to level 4 early (racial frigate and guns/missiles going to level 5, but they are level 1 or 2 skills only).

I don't have any problem agreeing that SP milestones are great when you hit them (that first time I was able to fit T2 blasters was great, same when I could run 5 drones, or when I reached Drone Interfacing 5 just recently). Each of those milestones helps, but SP don't matter as much as regular pvp, winning or losing. The knowledge gained about how other ships fight, how they are regularly fit, how your own fighting style develops, your organisation skills in a fight and the little things you try to do differently next time all pay off later on.

They don't depend on SP, only on the player - and they do pay off (check my eve-kill and you can see the progression each month just in the basic stats, but also in the different kills each month - and that's not me trying to have a big head, it's just the only evidence I have immediately at hand to demonstrate what I've written).
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2014-02-24 01:01:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Your ship doing everything better than mine matters. I don't see how anyone can deny that.

If you look closer, you'll see that no-one is denying it. What people are denying is the claim that newbies don't stand a chance against older players and can't catch up, or that SP is a factor that determines the outcome of fights.


Sp determines which ships you can fly, how well you can fit them, and how quickly you can generate isk to purchase/fit/replace them. At least a month for a frigate, if you focus solely on that which I've already explained is unrealistic for a first time player, and longer for dessies/cruisers/t2 frigs etc. I can catch up, and intend to, but sp determines to a large extent which fights I have a chance of winning, and which I must avoid. Add to that the fact that solo fights are often traps and most players avoid fights they're not guaranteed to win, and you see the limits of pvp for new players. So I wonder it's so much to ask that we not get carried away with ways for bored alts to **** new players in hisec.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#196 - 2014-02-24 01:15:21 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I've actually been roaming lowsec since the day I could fully fit my atron. Most of my pvp losses have been against skilled up droneboats or assault frigates; I've yet to die to a non t2 finishing blow. Your ship doing everything better than mine matters. I don't see how anyone can deny that.


We might have similar paths, though I'm just a few months earlier. I've been just about constantly pvping since day 4 in the game, initially in highsec duels and then after moving to lowsec. Stupidly (or very educationally) my first move was to Ammamake and after getting my butt handed to me regularly I moved to Old Man Star, which looking back on now is very lol worthy.

I still maintain that SP are secondary to pilot skills and aside from racial frigate and the primary gun type/missiles you want to use, you can get away with training other skills to level 4 early (racial frigate and guns/missiles going to level 5, but they are level 1 or 2 skills only).

I don't have any problem agreeing that SP milestones are great when you hit them (that first time I was able to fit T2 blasters was great, same when I could run 5 drones, or when I reached Drone Interfacing 5 just recently). Each of those milestones helps, but SP don't matter as much as regular pvp, winning or losing. The knowledge gained about how other ships fight, how they are regularly fit, how your own fighting style develops, your organisation skills in a fight and the little things you try to do differently next time all pay off later on.

They don't depend on SP, only on the player - and they do pay off (check my eve-kill and you can see the progression each month just in the basic stats, but also in the different kills each month - and that's not me trying to have a big head, it's just the only evidence I have immediately at hand to demonstrate what I've written).


I'm currently training drone interfacing v, my experience thus far has led me to believe that drone skills are a must since so many ships can use them and they're a huge factor in small fights. Nearly 1/3 of my total sp are in drones and I just got t2 small hybrids recently. I make my isk missioning so it was necessary to train up through battleships. Sp is a really big issue until you can t2 your entire fit (other than the few mods where meta 4 is better). And having maximum drone dps (or close) seems also pretty common. Every time I go to the OMS area I encounter either blobs, solo pvp stars in AFs, or newbie lp farmers who are warping out as I'm landing in their room.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#197 - 2014-02-24 01:15:23 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Sp determines which ships you can fly, how well you can fit them, and how quickly you can generate isk to purchase/fit/replace them.
That's just it: SP doesn't do any of that. Skill choices do. SP is only very loosely connected to what you end up with. The same amount of SP could yield nothing at all, or a 25% bonus from a lvl V skill or 150% worth of bonuses from lvl IV skills. Moreover, the amount of SP you can bring to bear is capped and highly dependent on the situation.

Quote:
Add to that the fact that solo fights are often traps and most players avoid fights they're not guaranteed to win, and you see the limits of pvp for new players.
But that has even less to do with SP or with being new, and more to do with game knowledge and situational awareness and strategising — all of which are player attributes rather than character ones. It also highlight one of the best ways for you to win fights, no matter where you are in your character progression.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#198 - 2014-02-24 01:30:24 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Sp determines which ships you can fly, how well you can fit them, and how quickly you can generate isk to purchase/fit/replace them.
That's just it: SP doesn't do any of that. Skill choices do. SP is only very loosely connected to what you end up with. The same amount of SP could yield nothing at all, or a 25% bonus from a lvl V skill or 150% worth of bonuses from lvl IV skills. Moreover, the amount of SP you can bring to bear is capped and highly dependent on the situation.

Quote:
Add to that the fact that solo fights are often traps and most players avoid fights they're not guaranteed to win, and you see the limits of pvp for new players.
But that has even less to do with SP or with being new, and more to do with game knowledge and situational awareness and strategising — all of which are player attributes rather than character ones. It also highlight one of the best ways for you to win fights, no matter where you are in your character progression.



You misunderstood everything I wrote. Facepalm.

Gonna try and make this simple.

Ship/fit relevant sp matters, and training it all to v takes a good bit of time even for frigates. How well you can fit a ship and which ships you can fly determines the range of your tactical options. A Hawk with all relevant skills at v has more options than someone who only has gunnery, pg, and drones at v and can't fly assault frigates.

I understand the differences between eve and wow, which I played only briefly before quitting out of boredom.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#199 - 2014-02-24 01:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Every time I go to the OMS area I encounter either blobs, solo pvp stars in AFs, or newbie lp farmers who are warping out as I'm landing in their room.


OMS is not the best choice if you want to be winning frequently early on. It is however great to learn survival skills.

Both Nasranite Watch and Soul Takers have very experienced and successful pilots in OMS and surrounding systems (Ladistier, Heydieles and recently quite a lot of fighting in Fliet) with Tipiaks there as well and visits from Tuskers and Stay Frosty as well as other Corps because it is a well known spot for fighting. A new pilot solo is like a child at a paedophile convention. Everyone is eyeing you off with a grin on their face.

Get into some of the other systems in GalCal FW space and you'll find it a bit different. Even Indregulle a couple of jumps away provides more breathing room for a new pilot, but it lacks a station and is sandwiched between Heydieles and Murethand (so on the whole, not the best choice)

For example, base out of Stacmon and fight in Dastryns. You have Eve-Uni next door in Uphallant, several opportunities to fight other new pilots plexing, the occasional larger fleet moving through to survive from, 2 good stations with good logistics in Stacmon; and that is one example of many lowsec FW systems that are better for new pilots and which have other good systems close by.

On the SP thing, I think myself and Remiel are probably just 1 brick wall talking to another brick wall. No-one is going to move; so I'm not going to harp on about that anymore. But I would suggest you move away from OMS for a while until you build up both the piloting skill and fitting/support skills to be comfortable there.

An Atron is definitely not the ship to be flying in OMS. While it can speed tank ok, it's a bit thin on tank and not overly survivable against the kiting ships that Old Man Gang often fly.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2014-02-24 01:48:50 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Every time I go to the OMS area I encounter either blobs, solo pvp stars in AFs, or newbie lp farmers who are warping out as I'm landing in their room.


OMS is not the best choice if you want to be winning frequently early on. It is however great to learn survival skills.

Both Nasranite Watch and Soul Takers have very experienced and successful pilots in OMS and surrounding systems (Ladistier, Heydieles and recently quite a lot of fighting in Fliet) with Tipiaks there as well and visits from Tuskers and Stay Frosty as well as other Corps because it is a well known spot for fighting. A new pilot solo is like a child at a paedophile convention. Everyone is eyeing you off with a grin on their face.

Get into some of the other systems in GalCal FW space and you'll find it a bit different. Even Indregulle a couple of jumps away provides more breathing room for a new pilot, but it lacks a station and is sandwiched between Heydieles and Murethand (so on the whole, not the best choice)

For example, base out of Stacmon and fight in Dastryns. You have Eve-Uni next door in Uphallant, several opportunities to fight other new pilots plexing, the occasional larger fleet moving through to survive from, 2 good stations with good logistics in Stacmon; and that is one example of many better lowsec FW systems that are better for new pilots.

On the SP thing, I think myself and Remiel are probably just 1 brick wall talking to another brick wall. No-one is going to move; so I'm not going to harp on about that anymore. But I would suggest you move away from OMS for a while until you build up both the piloting skill and fitting/support skills to be comfortable there.



Yea I don't usually fly around the oms area. And SURVIVING in lowsec is not hard (dscan/safes/don't warp to 0); I just find it boring to spend an hour dodging af's and gangs to no result. I'd almost rather lose a ship and at least have a fight. Most of my pvp losses are due to fighting something I shouldnt out of boredom. It's pretty hard to get into a fight by accident in a small ship.

Ship relevant sp limits your options. Lowsec is fine, I go in paying attention and expecting action. I'm more concerned with people that want to grief in hisec in fits that I'd need 3-4 months or more of training to emulate and then act like it's an even playing field.