These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Getting ganked on a closed Jita gate

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#81 - 2014-02-23 20:06:46 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Should we have this for every system or just Jita?

every system, obviously. the thing we're fixing isn't "the jita gate" it's "the solution we apply to full systems".


So, you're suggesting that, before anyone, anywhere, warps to any gate, that the client pings the server to see if the gate is locked or not? And that this information be available on demand, yes?

If so, why not just put the entire game into 10% TiDi and call it a day, because that would triple the server load instantly. You are literally asking CCP to DDOS themselves.

This is why people with "suggestions" need to shut the **** up. Because they can't see past their own nose, see past their cute little problem into how the game really works, and why.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#82 - 2014-02-23 20:07:31 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Should we have this for every system or just Jita?

every system, obviously. the thing we're fixing isn't "the jita gate" it's "the solution we apply to full systems".


Do you have any idea how much additional processing on single cores a query like that would take?

You're asking CCP to move mountains with a spoon.

And the reason you're asking them to do so is because you CBA to go somewhere else.

I've never seen anything so ill conceived and dumb.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Dave Stark
#83 - 2014-02-23 20:09:19 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Should we have this for every system or just Jita?

every system, obviously. the thing we're fixing isn't "the jita gate" it's "the solution we apply to full systems".


So, you're suggesting that, before anyone, anywhere, warps to any gate, that the client pings the server to see if the gate is locked or not? And that this information be available on demand, yes?

If so, why not just put the entire game into 10% TiDi and call it a day, because that would triple the server load instantly. You are literally asking CCP to DDOS themselves.

This is why people with "suggestions" need to shut the **** up. Because they can't see past their own nose, see past their cute little problem into how the game really works, and why.


no, i've just suggested that you should be able to tell if the gate you're trying to go through is closed or not. i haven't made a single comment on how that should take place.

if that's the terrible design you'd give it, then yeah please shut up with your terrible ideas.
Dave Stark
#84 - 2014-02-23 20:10:29 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Should we have this for every system or just Jita?

every system, obviously. the thing we're fixing isn't "the jita gate" it's "the solution we apply to full systems".


Do you have any idea how much additional processing on single cores a query like that would take?

You're asking CCP to move mountains with a spoon.

And the reason you're asking them to do so is because you CBA to go somewhere else.

I've never seen anything so ill conceived and dumb.


i'm not asking ccp to do a damn thing, i'm just pointing out that the way it works now is less than ideal.
also it has nothing to do with "you cba to go somewhere else" it's got **** all to do with that.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#85 - 2014-02-23 20:10:36 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
i haven't claimed once that the system isn't working as intended.
Quote:
clicked jump on the jita gate.
didn't jump me in to jita.

pretty sure that's the very definition of "not working".

Yes you have. Multiple times.

Quote:
no, i've just suggested that you should be able to tell if the gate you're trying to go through is closed or not.
You pretty much already can.
Marsha Mallow
#86 - 2014-02-23 20:10:39 UTC
Dying because of lag in any form is annoying though - even if you should know better.

I wouldn't advocate a protection zone around Jita, but it could be modified to encourage the use of adjacent systems.

Weekends are a joke atm, and given the % of players online and shopping at the weekend, it's only hurting the wider game that they experience this level of frustration getting in/out.

Maybe it's worth putting the constellation into a wider supernode and encouraging tertiary hubs around it to distribute the load? The adjacent systems could be moved into new regions, or treated as identical to Jita now. It'd widen the market and allow competition, and it wouldn't hurt pvpers to be able to fight across various systems and wider choke points.

At the moment Jita seems to be the server testing area, but it's clealy broken to the frustration of a lot of people. What's wrong with considering new ways to fix it as opposed to hardware upgrades?

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#87 - 2014-02-23 20:12:11 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


no, i've just suggested that you should be able to tell if the gate you're trying to go through is closed or not. i haven't made a single comment on how that should take place.

if that's the terrible design you'd give it, then yeah please shut up with your terrible ideas.


You've specifically said that you want this information before you get on the same grid as the gate.

Or are you just suggesting they wave their magic wands and make it so that isn't a massive drag on the server? I mean, if your suggestion has merit and you aren't just stomping your foot with your lower lip sticking out, then you have a concrete idea, right?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dave Stark
#88 - 2014-02-23 20:12:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i haven't claimed once that the system isn't working as intended.
Quote:
clicked jump on the jita gate.
didn't jump me in to jita.

pretty sure that's the very definition of "not working".

Yes you have. Multiple times.

Quote:
no, i've just suggested that you should be able to tell if the gate you're trying to go through is closed or not.
You pretty much already can.


the jump button not working. and jita not letting you in because it's full and that's an intended effect are two different things. so no, i didn't say that at all.
Ai Shun
#89 - 2014-02-23 20:12:48 UTC
EVE Online is not a twitch based game. It's slower, more thoughtful and requires players to plan ahead. You need knowledge based intelligence to survive and prosper in this game. This means scouting via the starmap, checking intel channels and knowing what your choke points are when hauling.

Why is "Knowing that Jita is a heavily travelled, reinforced node with problems during US peak times over the 4 day weekend period" any different to using the starmap, checking intel channels and generally knowing what is going on in the game?
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#90 - 2014-02-23 20:12:53 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
no, i've just suggested that you should be able to tell if the gate you're trying to go through is closed or not.


This mechanic already exists. If you warp to the Jita gate in Perimeter and the Jita system is full, you get a popup that says, "Jump Prohibited" because the system is full.

Working as intended. I'm so glad we got that sorted.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#91 - 2014-02-23 20:13:50 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
What's wrong with considering new ways to fix it as opposed to hardware upgrades?


And a bunch of people are saying that, rather than invent nanomachines or quantum computing or whatever to fix this "problem", what's wrong with considering shopping somewhere else?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dave Stark
#92 - 2014-02-23 20:14:57 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


no, i've just suggested that you should be able to tell if the gate you're trying to go through is closed or not. i haven't made a single comment on how that should take place.

if that's the terrible design you'd give it, then yeah please shut up with your terrible ideas.


You've specifically said that you want this information before you get on the same grid as the gate.

Or are you just suggesting they wave their magic wands and make it so that isn't a massive drag on the server? I mean, if your suggestion has merit and you aren't just stomping your foot with your lower lip sticking out, then you have a concrete idea, right?



i'm not suggesting they do anything. i'm suggesting knowing if a gate is open or not, is a better system than "warp to the gate and flip a coin" at current.
Dave Stark
#93 - 2014-02-23 20:16:01 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
no, i've just suggested that you should be able to tell if the gate you're trying to go through is closed or not.


This mechanic already exists. If you warp to the Jita gate in Perimeter and the Jita system is full, you get a popup that says, "Jump Prohibited" because the system is full.

Working as intended. I'm so glad we got that sorted.


considering your fix of the problem, is the problem, i see you've read and understood the thread.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#94 - 2014-02-23 20:16:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Dave Stark wrote:
the jump button not working. and jita not letting you in because it's full and that's an intended effect are two different things.
So claiming that the system that lets you jump in isn't working as intended isn't the same as claiming that the system isn't working as intended? Claiming that something needs to be fixed isn't the same as claiming that it isn't working?

Yes you have. Multiple times. Stop lying. You can also stop lying about the need for your supposed solution — it's already in the game.
Marsha Mallow
#95 - 2014-02-23 20:18:02 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
EVE Online is not a twitch based game. It's slower, more thoughtful and requires players to plan ahead. You need knowledge based intelligence to survive and prosper in this game. This means scouting via the starmap, checking intel channels and knowing what your choke points are when hauling.

Why is "Knowing that Jita is a heavily travelled, reinforced node with problems during US peak times over the 4 day weekend period" any different to using the starmap, checking intel channels and generally knowing what is going on in the game?


That doesn't justify dying on gates due to lag.

Even if you know it's there, traders, haulers and manufacturers in particular NEED to get in and out.

Bearing in mind GMs treat empire lag losses that are server based differently to combat losses, I'm pretty sure people are petitioning and probably getting a few reimbursed. It's not an invalid argument.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#96 - 2014-02-23 20:18:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Dave Stark wrote:


i'm not suggesting they do anything. i'm suggesting knowing if a gate is open or not, is a better system than "warp to the gate and flip a coin" at current.


You're wrong, because any feasible way for such a thing to exist, would cause more problems than it solves.

And since it would be trying to solve something that isn't actually a problem (autopiloting afk morons getting ganked on a locked gate), then it's not even worth consideration.

I honestly consider it insulting that Jita is wasting one of the cores that could be used for fleet fights. One of those is a big new player and recruitment draw. One of them is utterly boring.

So here's my solution to your "problem". Take Jita off the supernode entirely, FORCE people to shop elsewhere, and spread things around highsec.

Best part is, it's more technologically feasible than anything you're saying in this thread.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#97 - 2014-02-23 20:19:15 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


no, i've just suggested that you should be able to tell if the gate you're trying to go through is closed or not. i haven't made a single comment on how that should take place.

if that's the terrible design you'd give it, then yeah please shut up with your terrible ideas.


You've specifically said that you want this information before you get on the same grid as the gate.

Or are you just suggesting they wave their magic wands and make it so that isn't a massive drag on the server? I mean, if your suggestion has merit and you aren't just stomping your foot with your lower lip sticking out, then you have a concrete idea, right?



i'm not suggesting they do anything. i'm suggesting knowing if a gate is open or not, is a better system than "warp to the gate and flip a coin" at current.



Then always assume the gate is always shut down - always assume that Jita is full on the weekends. And then, with that incredible knowledge in tow, go somewhere else. How is this difficult?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Dave Stark
#98 - 2014-02-23 20:19:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
the jump button not working. and jita not letting you in because it's full and that's an intended effect are two different things.
So claiming that the system that lets you jump in isn't working as intended isn't the same as claiming that the system isn't working as intended?

Yes you have. Multiple times. Stop lying. You can also stop lying about the need for your supposed solution — it's already in the game.


i haven't, saying i did doesn't change that fact.

then again actually discussing the topic would be great too but if you want to spend all day **** posting, carry on.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#99 - 2014-02-23 20:20:16 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
no, i've just suggested that you should be able to tell if the gate you're trying to go through is closed or not.


This mechanic already exists. If you warp to the Jita gate in Perimeter and the Jita system is full, you get a popup that says, "Jump Prohibited" because the system is full.

Working as intended. I'm so glad we got that sorted.


considering your fix of the problem, is the problem, i see you've read and understood the thread.


My fix for the problem is going somewhere else. The people in Jita are the problem, not the gates. We've been over this.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#100 - 2014-02-23 20:20:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Marsha Mallow wrote:
That doesn't justify dying on gates due to lag.
…but that's not what we're discussing either.

Quote:
Even if you know it's there, traders, haulers and manufacturers in particular NEED to get in and out.
Not really, but if they feel they do, they can get in and out very easily.

Dave Stark wrote:
i haven't, saying i did doesn't change that fact.
…but your posts saying that very thing do. So stop lying.