EVE General Discussion

Good lord I'm agreeing with Grath again.

Except that wouldn't a good representation at all of who killed it.

This definition of kill you're no doubt using only for purposes of argumentation is unnecessarily narrow.

Oh, well from a certain point of view, this:



Would fit you as well. You're not an active participant in the fight, you're just facilitating it

You can't really be properly engaged, and as far as a handful of situations, it works in all situations (including low sec, regardless of complaints I know 100% that it works, just like all drone code its sometimes buggy) except yours.

Maybe you should, idk, nut up and actually get in the fight if you want to be on a killmail, neutral repping people get literally zero sympathy from anybody in EvE about anything.

This stuff is the only interesting counterargument I can see so far. If and when cyno alts and bridging titans demand killboard acknowledgement, we can deal with it at the time amid plenty of guffawing.

This issue wouldn't be at no. 10 on a CSM list if it didn't have some support - it's really difficult to see why anyone would argue against a review? Whilst it's nice to see Mike post to acknowledge it was discussed by CCP & the CSM, where's the plan to resolve it? It looks like it was discussed then discarded. What was the point of the list then?

All of the solutions and counterarguments so far suggest is that there are hidden benefits or out of game solutions to this, but that doesn't mean it isn't a flawed mechanic.

I'd agree with earlier posters that perhaps killboards and killmails need a more comprehensive review and overhaul. If a flag can be put in for "assist" mechanics, it could affect dedicated EWAR ships and caps on field in a support rather than DPS role - it'd make battlereports more interesting and useful.

Someone earlier mentioned LoL - it might be worth considering how other games deal with this and whether it's satisfactory. I played SWTOR warzones for a while, and they implemented a system (as per player requests) in which healers got tagged on every kill people they healed made. It did massively inflate healer killstats, but as far as I know the mechanic didn't break warzones. Scout tanks in WoT receive acknowledgement for lighting up the map. These tools other games use work, so why can't they be implemented here in some form or another?

ps. Warrior IIs are fine, except when fights exceed their range. Logis are frequently at range from DPS ships as well, which makes combat drones useless. It's nice to see some groups reward and aknowledge Logi, but the majority simply can't due to time or ISK constraints. Small groups in particular struggle to get people to continually fly logi, because of a lack of perceived reward/acknowledgement/they see it as a girly role - plus in sub BS fleets it's often an expensive ship to field. Solutions should be considered for the majority of players, not for those who play as a second job.

I'd like that, too. having to use that garpa thing is nice but meh, it really should be part of the game.

had to actually scroll down on google (i know, right?) to find a working mirror, though.

what you're looking for is "GarpaUI"

QUOTE:
"""#10 on the list is to put Logistics pilots onto killmails. Mike Azariah pointed out that
Logistics pilots get part of the bounty, so it’s clearly tracked. Soundwave wondered
aloud if it’s the right solution. “Logistics pilots want recognition, but is the killmail the
right place? Is shoehorning the information into the right place?” Ripard Teg brought up
an idea from elsewhere –“ if you’re present for a kill, you get kill credit, but likewise if
you are repping someone who dies, you get points against you.” Mynnna agreed that
whatever solution is settled on here, acknowledging failure should happen as well.
Korvin argued that logistics are “just another thing” involved in a kill, like ammo,
modules, etc. and they should be recorded. Ripard Teg pointed out we’re all gamers
and are driven by achievement, and that it also is an intelligence source. “It sizes up the
sides in a fight.” Veritas pointed out that battle reports like that, such as dog .net, do not
actually exist in EVE, but if they did, that may be a more appropriate way to display
logistics participation. Soundwave concluded that he thinks they should solve it, and
he’s just not sure if killmails are the right place for it"""

---

So you want to punish logi's for "failing" to save the friendly? And where is the punishment of the 1000's DPS ships who "failed" to kill the enemies?

This is kinda BS imo.

And yes, KM *is* the kind of recognition logi pilot want because it's the only recognition that everyone accepts and it's the only recognition every single pvp corp / alliance / coalition judges players with and that's their killboard. And if your killboard is crap cuz you're a logi, good luck trying to prove you are not an elephant. (and I don't say that because I'm full time logi and I have crappy KB, my KB is fine, thx).

And no, Iogi's don't want to curry warrior IIs, 1 smartbomb and they're gone. And no they don't want to curry 1 sentry, one warp out and it's gone. It's not that logi ships have the drone bay of drone boats. And not much you can do when all the fight takes place outside of your drone control range cuz hey, you won't be fitting those logi high slots with drone link augmentors now, would you?

So give the logi's the recognition they deserve and give them in the KMs, imo.

Logi pilots in B-R or HED or w/e have no proof they ever existed.
They can't say "I was there".
There's no recognition of their pvp activity besides the paplink that some FCs don't even give and frankly noone cares about.

Also, there''s no "you are a logi, you care about rep-ing yoru teammates, why do you wanna KM whore"? This is invalid. Logi pilots, the second they enter the logi ship they have nothing to prove about caring for their teammates. Entering the logi ship is proof enough. So, it's not about KM whore-ing, it's about the recognition everyone else gets but the logi pilots.

And further to the above, I could say, you are in a DPS ship cuz you care about defending your space and defeating your enemies. Fine! Why do *you* care about the KM anyway? Eliminate the KMs/KBs all together!

My 2 cents.

I think this is necessary, not because I think Logi deserve credit for kills, but because I think a killmail should not make it look like it was a solo kill when there were 6 people repping the killer.

Part of me sooooooo wants my Logi to be on kill mails and get the glory.

But my shady self realizes...

Flying Logi, my kill log seems like I am crappy. So, my enemies underestimate me. They see my loss vs kill numbers and think I don't know what I am doing.

So, I am 50-50 towards the idea of Logi on KMs.