EVE General Discussion

No what I'm saying is there is a perfectly functional mechanic currently working in game and you are asking CCP to devote programing time to something that doesn't actually need a fix because, as I said, a method thats really easy to use already exists.

Why should other things that need fixing in game wait when what you're collectively asking for is a simple move of "Right Click Assign Drone Do Logi's Normal Job"? Hardly climbing through a window to get into a car at all, but thanks for exaggerating.

EDIT: Oh and you should get together on this, because one guy in this thread was told to just attack other ships and said that was too much effort and took away from his ability to properly care for his wards. So here's you saying you wouldn't mind using your warriors to do exactly that. So either he's bad at multi tasking or you're a poor logistics pilot, regardless, currently if you're in a logi the means exists for you to show that you were in a fight and productive in applying damage to a victim. Calling that a 'crutch' doesn't negate the fact that we have a game where tons of stuff needs attention and you want them to devote time to coding you a way to do less in a fight and get more.

Theres no difference between my example and your claim. Both are about doing something in a none optimal way. Why should something else be more important? Poses, only a small amount of people from the whole population manages those. Titans/sc's , only a small fraction flies those, no point in fixing it... could go on with this, fixing something thats not working in an optimal way is always useful for the game. Just because you are not interested in logistics pilots getting on killmails doesn't mean someone else wouldn't be interested in it, and those other people would be more than glad to have this fix.

So, I see no reason why a games small problems aren't as meaningful for the game as whole as big problems. But thats clearly something you do not understand. You sound like an ea marketer who sees all these problems/bugs in a game and goes on saying "yeah we can sell this, it doesn't matter if it's full of small fuckups, players can just go around those".

Hi Mike

Can you get my cloaky combat prober/warp in on the mail as well m8

Here's the thing with getting non offensive (not just logi, but recon as well) ships on mails. The flying of these ships is recognised as the moment as sacrificing your own kill mails in order to put in work for the team. It's a nice little effect that has arisen because of the current mechanics. If you make them just another ship you do away with this bit of eve culture just to get on some meaningless stats which can be juked by killing your own alt over and over again anyway.

A few notes:

Drones are not immediate damage. They have a flight time and this means you can miss many kills by the target being killed before the drones get their first shot.

Drones have a limited range of engagement, so for sniping fleets they are usually not effective from non dedicated droneboats.

Drones will not aggress non criminal targets in lowsec, so drone assist does nothing for most of us evil piwates that need to have our PvP deterred at every turn because we are so evil

i like the way you casually ignore the fact that your suggestion doesn't work in all situations, especially mine. there are no tools to get me on a killmail.

people do love me for being logi, however i've got nothing to show for it other than a few people going "dave's a cool guy" which is nice, but every one else has killmails to link and say "hey look at this" i've just got "yeah i was there too.." but nobody would know.

and there's a difference between "being near by" and "participating" afk cloaking in a system isn't participating. being involved in an actual fight is participating. so no, cyno alts and irrelevant **** that weren't involved in the fight don't need to be on killmails. just because a fight happened because some one lit a cyno doesn't mean they participated in a fight. facilitating =/= participating.

currently the situation is that kill mails simply do not actually resemble what took place in that fight, it just shows a list of people with offensive modules and very little else. currently they're pretty half arsed in that respect.

generally if i'm flying logi, it's for a bit of corp on corp violence, usually in high sec.. i can carry all the damage drones i want; they're not going to do me any good.

that cov ops is just a means of bypassing this game's horrible piloting mechanics. i appreciate that statement is entirely up for debate however if the mechanics of moving your ship in space weren't so restricted and quite frankly bad you wouldn't need to bounce to and from a cov ops ship. but no, he wasn't involved in the fight at all. he didn't get involved in the slightest, he was just a mobile bookmark to get around a (debatably) bad system.

again, that titan bridge isn't part of the fight. he's a few jumps out, he's certainly now here near the goddamn fight and should appear as close to the kill mail as he was to the fight; obviously nowhere bloody near it. moving ships around has nothing to do with having a fight in regards to "i should be on a kill mail cos actually moving ships in eve sucks".

if offensive ewar gets players put on the killmail, then so should the non-offensive stuff. eccm, reps, sebos, cap transfers etc. i'd probably draw the line at links though, and justify it by saying it's not a module you activate on a targeted ship. pretty weak justification but the line has to be somewhere, but "only ships doing offensive things" shouldn't be where the line is.

correct, neutral repping.

I've never minded that Logistics ships don't show up on killmails. I understand that a logistics pilot wants to be remembered as an important (perhaps, indeed, the most important) part of the fight. However, the mechanic as it is creates a number of important consequences:

1) It makes it harder for massive groups to track logistic participation, since they can't simply use killmail stats. This, in turn, leads to sub-optimal fleet compositions which allows smaller groups, on occasion, to defeat them against the odds.

2) The need for good statistics on participation in large alliances leads to custom solutions like the creation of 'PAP' stats, which assign points to different vessels and track participation in enormous detail using OOG tools. Essentially, this thus generates 'jobs' in the Eve metagame.

3) The more complex the meta, the more room for creativity and manipulation.

4) The absence of logistics on killmails rewards those alliances and groups who can motivate players to fulfill key roles on the basis of narrative causes. Narrative arcs are better motivations than Battleclinic scores in terms of generating Eve's great stories.

5) As Grath mentioned, means do exist to get your logistics ship onto a killmail, if you so choose.

I'm not massively against logistics being on killmails but equally I see no desperate need to change the status quo on this. RnK is a group that has traditionally relied extremely on its logistic ship support. If we would have been unable to motivate our logi pilots to make that their calling in life beyond a KB score, then in the end we would have rightly failed.

I doubt Agent Xer0 knows what his Battleclinic score is, or has ever even looked at it. It is simply not a measure of his reputation and worth: he counts only in fleets routed versus fleets lost. In a way, the mechanic, as it is, favours those who can play for the bigger picture. The same is true for scouts, cynos, etc. - and the groups that can find narrative means to reward those pursuits are rightly rewarded in turn by results.

It's a I want kill mails as logi because if I get shot at die as logi my kb looks bad type

I still maintain that having logi on killmails would make things ridiculously convoluted.