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Who lives in a C5 Wolf Rayet
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dan skirata
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-02-23 00:28:22 UTC
Which big corps/alliances live in Wolf Rayets? Or which of you guys fly armor dreads?

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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#2 - 2014-02-23 00:46:11 UTC
Even in a c5 wolf-rayet, you're still better off with a shielddread.

Also: Hi!
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#3 - 2014-02-23 02:00:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Aquila Sagitta
dan skirata wrote:
Which big corps/alliances live in Wolf Rayets? Or which of you guys fly armor dreads?


1. Were not a big corp but were semi competent at pvp

2. If your looking for an armor pvp dread I'd recommend a shield nag like my corp mate said Lol
Reasons:
Dual rep armor moros can tank ~38k dps (would not recommend this fit not a fan)

where as the nag tanks slightly less(in the wolf-rayet) @36k dps but is much less susceptible to neuts and much more versatile in other wh's!

Blue-Fire Best Fire
dan skirata
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-02-23 04:49:07 UTC
So no one uses armor dreads??

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Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#5 - 2014-02-23 05:15:50 UTC
I doSad But to be fair I am cross training to shield ones now. Shields just give such a bigger burst tank than armor allowing you to actually maybe live through your siege cycle. Plus generally higher DPS. Armor gets more mid slots for cap and tracking so more durarion based and better for blaping (again tho to be fair.. stick enough webs and target painters on something it doesn't matter if you have 0 tracking speed... you will hit it).
Arkon Cat
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-02-23 06:43:02 UTC
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
dan skirata wrote:
Which big corps/alliances live in Wolf Rayets? Or which of you guys fly armor dreads?


1. Were not a big corp but were semi competent at pvp

2. If your looking for an armor pvp dread I'd recommend a shield nag like my corp mate said Lol
Reasons:
Dual rep armor moros can tank ~38k dps (would not recommend this fit not a fan)

where as the nag tanks slightly less(in the wolf-rayet) @36k dps but is much less susceptible to neuts and much more versatile in other wh's!



This is only true if you are a complete noob. A competent dread pilot will have mods to refit, and would refit for the specific damage types. That being said, I have not ran the numbers, but with my armor moros I have tanked upwards of 4 dreads by simply refitting, at least long enough to get out of siege and get reps (provided they are available in your scenario) if they were not dead by that point. Oh, and this was in a system with no effects.

Although I am sure the nag comes close, in a wolf-rayet ill dunk your nag 10/10 times =)

o/
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#7 - 2014-02-23 11:09:38 UTC
Arkon Cat wrote:
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
dan skirata wrote:
Which big corps/alliances live in Wolf Rayets? Or which of you guys fly armor dreads?


1. Were not a big corp but were semi competent at pvp

2. If your looking for an armor pvp dread I'd recommend a shield nag like my corp mate said Lol
Reasons:
Dual rep armor moros can tank ~38k dps (would not recommend this fit not a fan)

where as the nag tanks slightly less(in the wolf-rayet) @36k dps but is much less susceptible to neuts and much more versatile in other wh's!



This is only true if you are a complete noob. A competent dread pilot will have mods to refit, and would refit for the specific damage types. That being said, I have not ran the numbers, but with my armor moros I have tanked upwards of 4 dreads by simply refitting, at least long enough to get out of siege and get reps (provided they are available in your scenario) if they were not dead by that point. Oh, and this was in a system with no effects.

Although I am sure the nag comes close, in a wolf-rayet ill dunk your nag 10/10 times =)

o/


Ya, we're talking competent pilots. Refitting is also possible in a shielddread Roll It's fine that you tanked those dreads for a cycle, nothing special there. A shieldnag though tanks 6 dreads for 2 siegecycles and then just leaves siege for a minute to get capped up again. That's the kind of performance aquila is talking about.

Bottom line is that shields are tanked via their midrack, leaving room for damage-amps in the lows, or even better: PDS for more maxcap (modern dreads run on capbuffer). While it is possible for a dualrepmoros to get to ~70% of a nags local tank, you are also left with 7000dps (guristas AM) against a nag's 10500dps (angel Fusion).
Not worth it.
Random Woman
Very Professional Corporation
#8 - 2014-02-23 11:23:25 UTC
I also tank 4 dreads as long as those dont go into siege.

No refitting will save an armor dread in a wh vs such numbers, even if you survive the siege cycle (and thats highly unlikeble if your not fighting team trisomie 21) There wont be enough support to rep/cap you up after that.

Like the bluefire guys said, go for shield naglfars, they are the better dreads, even in a W-R.

Naglafars aint invicible, but you last longer before dying :)

Also they are lighter so you can bring more friends.
Arkon Cat
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-02-24 06:01:44 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Refitting is also possible in a shielddread

&
Random Woman wrote:
I also tank 4 dreads as long as those dont go into siege.

This just makes me sad.


Now back to the topic,
Im not saying the nag isnt good, dont get me wrong...
But if you are running a nag in a wolf rayet and I roll into you, you sure as hell are dead =)

Oh, and for Lloyd Roses and Random Woman, by "running a nag in a wolf rayet" I meant a scenario where I can lock you (a.k.a not POS'ed up.)
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#10 - 2014-02-24 07:20:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Aquila Sagitta
Umm... I'll take that fight. Where you at?

Or if you don't live in a w-r you can come into my home Blink


Also for curiosity what damage type do you refit to when you have 2 moros, nag and rev shooting at you?

Blue-Fire Best Fire
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#11 - 2014-02-24 12:52:04 UTC
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
Also for curiosity what damage type do you refit to when you have 2 moros, nag and rev shooting at you?


"If in doubt shoot thermal" is something I've heard for a long time in EVE. Obviously the reverse is also true.

Moros: Kin/Therm
Moros: Kin/Therm
Rev: EM/Therm
Nag: EM/Kin or Therm/Kin or Expl/Kin

3 Guaranteed thermals, 3 guaranteed kinetics. The kinetic portion of the Nag's ammo is very minor though.

Tank for thermal and then kinetic.
Random Woman
Very Professional Corporation
#12 - 2014-02-24 13:31:15 UTC
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
Umm... I'll take that fight. Where you at?

Or if you don't live in a w-r you can come into my home Blink




Same here.


Aquila Sagitta wrote:

Also for curiosity what damage type do you refit to when you have 2 moros, nag and rev shooting at you?


Does it matter?

All Bulkhead and a Damagecontrol will be the last thing he has fitted (hopefully).

There is no way you can tank that many dmg types coming from dreads. Thermal/kin is as said already always a good call, but if that nag uses exp or em your going down. There is just no way to tank that kind of damage in a dread, an archon possible, but not a dread.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#13 - 2014-02-24 14:59:22 UTC
Cute, Random Woman seems to have grasped the basics of capital ship piloting theory.

Now fly both, armor and shield, then come back for statements. You'll be facepalming a lot.
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#14 - 2014-02-24 16:50:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Aquila Sagitta
Random Woman wrote:


There is no way you can tank that many dmg types coming from dreads. Thermal/kin is as said already always a good call, but if that nag uses exp or em your going down. There is just no way to tank that kind of damage in a dread, an archon possible, but not a dread.


http://eol.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=21949756
vidya

I tanked 7 dreads for a siege cycle. Came out of siege to get capped up then died in second siege cycle. A nag can tank upwards to 100k dps overheated if fit right Roll

Blue-Fire Best Fire
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#15 - 2014-02-24 19:53:31 UTC
(J-Number Withheld) is the Wolf-Rayet home of Atztech Inc. A few months ago, they were PvE-rolling holes prior to escalations, and I managed to get rolled into their hole by them for about a week, observing their daily capital escalation approach. They take the "Warp a blob of dreads, carriers, & Lokis" approach toward escalations, jamming with a Falcon or two while their Noctis picks up the loot afterward. Being in a Wolf-Rayet helps them with this approach a good deal, and once they are done with their escalations and rage-rolling for PvP for a few hours centered around their home Germany time zones, they zip up the hole and have their industrialists mine, rolling holes opportunistically as they occur.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-02-24 21:52:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Paikis wrote:
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
Also for curiosity what damage type do you refit to when you have 2 moros, nag and rev shooting at you?

"If in doubt shoot thermal" is something I've heard for a long time in EVE. Obviously the reverse is also true.
Moros: Kin/Therm
Moros: Kin/Therm
Rev: EM/Therm
Nag: EM/Kin or Therm/Kin or Expl/Kin
3 Guaranteed thermals, 3 guaranteed kinetics. The kinetic portion of the Nag's ammo is very minor though.
Tank for thermal and then kinetic.

Pro Tip: if you do this and youre armour tanked you die to the Nag's exp damage before your first siege cycle is up.
The fact that it shoots explosive ammo is the only good thing about the nag and it only matters if it's shooting armour ships.

Aquila Sagitta wrote:
Random Woman wrote:
There is no way you can tank that many dmg types coming from dreads. Thermal/kin is as said already always a good call, but if that nag uses exp or em your going down. There is just no way to tank that kind of damage in a dread, an archon possible, but not a dread.

http://eol.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=21949756
vidya
I tanked 7 dreads for a siege cycle. Came out of siege to get capped up then died in second siege cycle. A nag can tank upwards to 100k dps overheated if fit right Roll

cant help but notice that there were 6 dreads on your kill mail, not 7, and that you died anyway.

Nags are everyone's wet dreams apparently but theyre heavily overrated. shield moros is better is every conceivable way.

PS: your fit also doesnt get anywhere near 100k tank. it gets 47.4k overloaded with strong blue pill and max fleet boosts. also, because youre fitting 3 amps (lol btw) it only heats for 1min. 33.7k tank unheated.
cap life on this is less than 3min without implants, slightly more with implants. 2m20s with heat.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#17 - 2014-02-24 22:32:00 UTC
No one cares
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#18 - 2014-02-25 01:11:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Aquila Sagitta
Jack Miton wrote:


Aquila Sagitta wrote:

I tanked 7 dreads for a siege cycle. Came out of siege to get capped up then died in second siege cycle. A nag can tank upwards to 100k dps overheatedif fit rightRoll

cant help but notice that there were 6 dreads on your kill mail, not 7, and that you died anyway.

Nags are everyone's wet dreams apparently but theyre heavily overrated. shield moros is better is every conceivable way.

PS: your fit also doesnt get anywhere near 100k tank. it gets 47.4k overloaded with strong blue pill and max fleet boosts. also, because youre fitting 3 amps (lol btw) it only heats for 1min. 33.7k tank unheated.
cap life on this is less than 3min without implants, slightly more with implants. 2m20s with heat.


Ok. I'm just gonna start from the top.
1. The 7th dread is on the wrong side cause :evekill:
2. I underlined and highlighted some things you might of missed in my quote. I said a properly fit nag can tank upwards to 100k dps. My nag was improperly fit! I unfortunately ran out of isk and couldn't afford fitting a proper nag.
3. Shield moros is worse to shield nag in every way EXCEPT that it does more dps. Which is great until you get neuted. Nag tanks more dps, has better cap life, and even if its cap dry it still puts out 10k dps while you chew threw its armor/hull.
4. If you watch the video you'll notice that a nag out lasts the moros with a shinier tank. Pleasetellmeagainhowthenagisbetterthenthemoros.jpg
5. I didn't have blue pill cause I totally forgot to grab some. I honestly think that if I had strong blue pill and put a couple more bill into my tank we would have held the field in that battle.
6. Stole the fit from Blood Union. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say they've killed more wh caps then both of our corps/alliances combined. That and after considerable pyfa'ing I'm certain 3 amps is better then 3 or more resist mods.
7. I guarantee the Nag has better cap life then a moros.
8. Come at me bro

Blue-Fire Best Fire
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-02-25 02:53:15 UTC
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
7. I guarantee the Nag has better cap life then a moros

ok, youre technically correct. with T2 memcells, PDSs in the spare lows, nag gets 7 seconds more cap time. *shrug* sure, ok.
it also has 13% worse regen and 20% less actual cap (which makes a huge difference regarding getting neuted).

as for tank, if the difference for you is fitting 2 amps vs 3, the tank difference is less than the difference in DPS.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#20 - 2014-02-25 03:10:55 UTC
link me a fit then

Blue-Fire Best Fire