EVE General Discussion

Says the person who wants all timers removed, and that people should have to have a 24 hour guard on all their systems?

You are the biggest hypocrite I have ever encountered.

Thanks for the clarification.

Because players going to and from Jita for courier contracts contributes to the load in Jita! What is needed is a way to get stuff into and out of Jita without players loading the node.

mmmmmm, hardware pron.

Because Jita is the only place, anywhere, that sells T2 frigates, right?

The solution is simple. Go elsewhere. When you go to Jita, you are trading convenience and time for price.

10 day alt of a 2006 player. What about your main or are you a 7 month pewb ?

Anyway why make this personal when many people have the same issue with the current state of Jita and it most certainly is not just me.

Buy low in Jita, sell normal or high elsewhere. I would guess it's easier than trading NPC items in any game from a bunch of different locations.

You do realise that with large freight, there can be a smaller than 1:1 relationship between people getting stuff out of Jita and people going into Jita?

So? Are you so skimped that you can't do one without doing the other? If not, you can still do both but they'll be decoupled and asynchronous.

A Cheetah is, what, one 300:th of the cargo space of a freighter. So you should be looking at one 300:th of the jump cost, or at most 15k ISK. Again, the solution is there and if people start using it because the problem becomes so large that there is any actual need for it, it will be industrialised to the point where you are not doing single contracts for a single person.

Uh-huh.

If it was very difficult to sell and buy from the market, that would be a pretty huge incentive. So it's strange that people keep going to the same place, isn't it? It's as if it wasn't problematic to do so…

How is it broken? You can get in and get out without much issue. If you can't be bothered, you can get your goods in and out without any issue. You don't even have to be in the system to do your trades. If you absolutely refuse to go any of those routes, then going elsewhere is very much an option. If you dislike that option as well, then the problem starts to be with you.

They did fix it. That's what the whole 10% of normal speed comes from, you know.

All commerce invariably flows to Jita.
All hubs and stations are more or less just relay points towards this superheavy commerce blackhole of the universe.

Its the Rome of EVE and its only a matter of time before a Carthage arises to challenge its ponderous monolithic monopoly.
Though having such a huge trade hub has its benefits, it actually limits the potential of free enterprise and enterpreneurship throughout the universe as well as making the market vulnerable to manipulation.

I am all for as player driven an economy as possible, but this is an artificial system that has hardcoded limitations.

Imo, the crux of this artificial system, is the relative ease of transport of materials. (With lack of incentivising local trade as a secondary and somewhat indirect factor)
Consider comparison to IRL movement of materials around the world, today and historically:

-Risk. Is somewhat present, yes. Piracy/ganking takes its small part. As was the case along the Silk Road, its a long and dangerous transit from the edge of space to the cradle of wealth. But the sheer volume of material moving there provides safety in numbers against the proportiinately small amount of predators on the road. Furthermore, security along those routes, specifically between the nominal empire trade hubs, is very efficient as provided (free of charge) by CONCORD on high sec routes. (Even thoug this is punitive in direct effect, it also provides an indirect preventative deterrant to piracy).

-Time. Time is valuable in EVE, primarily as a limited player resource. IRL it takes sometimes weeks or months to move shipments across oceans between trade hubs, or at greater cost by air freight. If there was no penalty on auto-pilot the provlem of centralisation of commerce would be even worse. Time is a key consideration in whether you take your stuff to Jita, or instead do business at a local hub. However, it rrally doesnt take that long to take your goods to Jita, for millions more profit from the greater pool of players there, than saving some minutes or hours by doing it locally. This is a tenuous balance, and a very direct investment/profit equation. Can you make more ISK by trading/acting locally, in the time it would take to go to Jita instead? I thinnk unfortunately, all too often, due to the nature of the games current artificial system, the answer is its more profitable to schlep to Jita.

-Cost. One of the core differences between IRL hauling and movement of commodities and EVE, is fuel and other associated costs.Im sure its far too late to implement either a gate use cost, or make gating require a special fuel unit, but it bears mentioning as an example of how EVEs economy is an artifical model with its own intrinsic limitations when comparing to IRL models.

-Geographic availability of resources. Many items in EVE are only generated in specific regions of space. This is good, but becomes largely irrelevant if all those items, no matter where they come from, are more cheaply aquired from Jita, rather than in their source regions (again, due to the relative ease/profitability of simply taking what you generate locally,to Jita, rather than trading it locally)

Overall, what Im talking about, is I wish there was more incentive for trading locally, and more indirect detractants to the time/risk of simply moving everything directly to Jita. Currently there is too little of both, respectively, to the result that even the artificial systems of the game (namely the servers and region handling of Jita itself) cant "sustain" the economy.

I think its a warning bell that the economy is suffering, and that local trading is not incentivised enough.

Sure, CCP can just make Jita able to handle more and more players, but that is treating a symptom, not the cause.
Some will argue that Jita queues will incentivise trade locally elsewhere, but really that is not a valid argument unless the queues start extending into 10s of minutes of waiting. Furthermore, this argument is invalidated internally, because it is NOT player behavior that is causing the Jita queues, it is the artificial environment of the game, namely, the server and code capacity. This is an indication that the games internal balances are being exceeded. That the artificial world of EVE cannot handle what is happeneing in Jita, means the games internal reality is not balanced ELSEWHERE, which is resulting in this behavior.

Local trading needs incentivising. The current artificial systrms of the game are not sufficiently nd conducive to this, resulting in simply taking everything to Jita, which is creating a systemic "problem" in that not even Jita can handle it all.