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Loot Spew 4 Months Later

First post
Author
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#241 - 2014-02-21 19:31:58 UTC
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.



Best early christmas present ever.


I know quite a few pilots who will be doing backflips over this news.
Atticus Aurilen
Doomheim
#242 - 2014-02-21 19:37:12 UTC
Hooray for the end of the worst game mechanic in the history of game design!
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#243 - 2014-02-21 19:45:06 UTC
I love the mini-game, it's awesome (loot-spew not).

Anyone that hates on the mini-games is either a botter, AFKer, or a nutcase who "plays" EvE for work, rather than fun
Cultural Enrichment
Jenkem Puffing Association
#244 - 2014-02-21 19:48:13 UTC
Loot spew was nothing near a good game mechanism, but caving in to the retards who couldnt find the focus of clicking a few cans is ridiculous.
Orlacc
#245 - 2014-02-21 20:14:12 UTC
Great news about the spew!

I too love the mini-game as the pilots playing don't see me creeping up.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#246 - 2014-02-21 21:01:15 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


Can't wait for summer Smile
Dani Aider
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#247 - 2014-02-21 21:50:27 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Ivory Kantenu wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


Curious, what exactly is prompting this? It seems like moving it to the past of 'Open to loot' will hurt the economy even more than the current system in place, even if just a little.

They will most likely reduce the amount of loot as well, for balance.
Although I still say sites could be improved by adding more loot types. Increase the breadth of the loot table to prevent the market from being saturated with any given type. For example, skill books already show up. How about putting ALL skill books in the loot table, and setting the drop rate at something below typical player demand? That way the price will not crash. BPO's are another possibility. (Yes, originals). Again just make sure the drop rate is low, so there will still be buys from the NPCs.



yes, we will balance the loot tables accordingly and will take another look at the loot in general :)


LOL statement of the month. The loot was already a joke since this new hacking / loot feature was implemented. So you are going to make them eve more worthless ? awesome.

What about all the sites lefted spawned in space where someone has gone in with cargo scanner, emptied the only can worth looting, leaving a worthless site in space ?

I think you need to revise the despawning of these sites too and revert to the old mechanic where if you hack a can and warp out, the site despawns.
M1k3y Koontz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#248 - 2014-02-21 22:04:12 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


Yay \o/

Hiton Kado wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.

Why? I actually liked the idea of having to work for your loot. Dumbing it down will bring it closer to mind numbing gameplay like mining.


Work for you loot... as in master a hacking game that, in nullsec, can be next to impossible?

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Thanks whiners.

Probably loot will be nerfed now, so that you microless fat fingers can finally handle a simple mini-game.


Oh noes, the value of loot will now rise to compensate for the decreased supply! Whatever will we do!!!

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#249 - 2014-02-21 22:18:36 UTC
In the thread of crazy one-lined ideas it was my suggestion that the entire ship-wreck mechanic be also replaced by loot spew.

So sad. So sad. Ugh
Salvos Rhoska
#250 - 2014-02-21 22:26:59 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Oh noes, the value of loot will now rise to compensate for the decreased supply! Whatever will we do!!!


Value wont rise. Quality of loot from the nodes will decrease.
Youll earn less for the few pieces your fat fingers couldnt even get before.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#251 - 2014-02-21 22:37:34 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


Christ. Credit where credit's due, Affinity, and this is the right move. But seriously, why has it taken so long? And what about the stuff that's been broken in the meantime? What exactly is the overall path you guys envision for PvE in general and how does this -- or anything else, really -- fit in?
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#252 - 2014-02-21 23:02:52 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.



Thank goodness... Capsuleers finally learned how to throw a net over the thing and operate docking collars correctly.
Big smile

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#253 - 2014-02-21 23:13:49 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


Thank God.

Ps if you wonder, or if you are not sure, that you have gauged the player reaction correctly, the clue is in it's name.

(Vomit or spew is generally not desired or appreciated)


.......though i'm pretty sure there's people out there who are wierd enough to enjoy it.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Speedkermit Damo
Invicta.
Muffins of Mayhem
#254 - 2014-02-21 23:23:07 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
The micro and challenge in loot spew is minimal. Like others in this thread, Im finding it difficult to understand that some people seem to lack the manual dexterity and short term memorisation and data processing capacity to click a moving object about once every 5s (and then blame the game for that). Its something any able bodied individual without a personal medical condition should be capable of. Perhaps my perspeftive on this is skewed and I have an unrealistic expectation of peoples micro skills from my years as an RTS player. Thats entirely possible.


Okay, now step back a little from your ad hominem against the entire community and think about this: what are people complaining about? Is it that none of us can click the little targets? Or is it simply that having just played the 3D mini game of "move the blue ball over the red ball then click and wait" then the mini game of "click these buttons until something happens", we are now faced with yet another mini game of "chase the bloody cans"?

For most people, the dislike for the loot spew is simply that it is inconvenient. It is an artificial inconvenience in much the same way that multi-mega-hitpoint structures are an annoying inconvenience in the null sec sov wars. The experience is incongruent with the rest of the game. It's like you're in the middle of a Counterstrike match and in order to shoot the target with the sniper rifle, you need to point the sniper rifle at the target, then play a quick game of checkers, then play jumping jacks. Some people will enjoy the experience because they're happy to vacuum up any swill that gets dumped in their trough.

For me, the fun in exploration used to be that it was actually difficult to find the sites in the first place. These days you just open the probing interface and dump the probes on top of the places where the game has already told you the sites are located. 2AU spread, scan. Most sites are now 100%, some sites you'll need to tighten the spread to 1AU or 0.5AU. There's no challenge to it any more. CCP took away DSPs because having a list of what sites were in systems was trivialising the content; then CCP gave us the system scanner because having the game hold your hand and direct you to place your probes on the little X is (apparently) not trivialising the content.

I don't care for the hacking mini game, and I find the loot spew an annoying diversion. From the perspective of the PvPer, the aim of an exploration site is to keep the explorer visible in space long enough to probe down and scram. The old system of cycling a module was much better at achieving this than the modern system: I can hack the can and just click the parts and data containers, then disappear. There's no finesse to hacking: just keep clicking hacking nodes until you defeat the system core.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Furthermore, there is an inherent and blatant irony in your post that its amazing you seem to be unable to introspect upon. Namely that Im not the one who whined about loot spew. Im fine with how loot spew is. Direct your comments about "whining" to those who are, infact, "whining" that it is not ok.


You complained that loot spew was being removed and that this would trivialise the content. I did not misrepresent your opinion, you are simply putting words in my mouth because you took offence at being labelled a bandwagon rider.

You run combat sites: is that because the NPCs were removed from mag & radar sites, or because you never ran mag and radar sites?


So loot spew is slightly inconvenient. How terrible for you.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

Skalle Pande
Teknisk Forlag
#255 - 2014-02-22 00:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Skalle Pande
My 2 cents: If there are too many minigames, then let the hacking game go rather than the loot spew. The hacking game at present is mainly luck, the loot spew actually needs you to make quick choices and be deft, real time. The hacking game is a bit out of style with the rest of the game and a bit silly-clickery - at least it is quick, though, but it is just another mindless grind. If that would be the only thing left in exploration, it would become as boring as mining, and as easy to do semi-AFK.

But I realize I'm probably in the minority here. So this would be the next best solution, in my opinion:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Honestly, CCP could keep the loot spew mechanic, so as to not waste those work hours creating it, but just have it trigger on an unsuccessful hack. So, you can hack the container successfully and you get a loot window. Unsuccessfully and you get to scramble getting some loot. Maybe you'll get nothing, maybe you'll get something. It's a small consolation prize to not having your skills up high enough. Plus, it lessens the skill cliff for new pilots, since even if they are unsuccessful, they can still loot something until they get better skilled.

This, this. Eminent idea, best so far, completely meaningful lore-wise. Add perhaps an AOE explosion effect with damage depandent on distance from can, and/or the arrival of an NPC patrol, within, say, 40 seconds, just to emphasize that you blew it (literally!).

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Since it seems CCP will be making a change to the hack/spew mechanics, but are seemingly still undecided on some of the specifics, now is the time to make suggestions/proposals to help inform those from a community perspective.

+1.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Personally, I dont think "remove the minigame" attitudes are constructive or conducive to a better game or mechanics

The anti-spew camp has three main argument positions:
1) The sites involve too many minigames. First probing, then hacking, and finally spew. Fair enough argument, but to me atleast, its clear that if those factors are reduced, it will directly translate to lower rewards. Because less effort/risk is always equal to less reward. Frankly, data/relic sites are already quite low reward. ...

2) ...many people seem to have real dexterity issues with actually completing the spew mechanic....

3) Hardware and connection related concerns, such as the small and stacked nature of rhe spew (which do however disperse geometrically as the spew spreads out). Also the fact that the spew is not indicated in overview but instead requires attention on the actual star field (which is unusual for EVE in many ways, which I personally like, but I understand others have limitations regarding small screen size etc). An indirect but workable solution would be making the spew cans detectable and selectable through the Overview so that people can accurately identify the cans and their distance for better retrieval.

I agree with the first, but not with the third. I too prefer focusing on space rather than on the Overview, and actually it is quite challenging to have to do both - since you have to watch out for gankers (or rat patrols, at least in ghost sites) still. So, you have to make room (I play on a small screen), you have to prepare, you can't just mindlessly continue. I like that. It's a space game, you should relate to space.

The second point ... I find that hard to believe, but even if that is actually the case, I would consider it an argument for KEEPING the challenge. Really, guys, then you need to train. But maybe the real reason is that it takes people out of spreadsheet mode, you may actually miss some interesting pieces of loot - but hey, there should be no such thing as certain success, imho.

As for those who ask for more variety in the loot tables, less NPC junk and more distinction between data and relic sites I am in complete agreement, no matter if loot comes from normal or spewed cans. Low-value player-demanded stuff would be ever so much better than stuff that can only be sold to an NPC 10 jumps away, so do away with the Carbon, the Data Sheets and the rest of the useless "trade" goods. OR better still - make them useful to players. But that is for another thread.
Blood Viper Johnson
Gallente Federation
#256 - 2014-02-22 00:39:33 UTC
ccp why you cant just return npc back on relics and datas?just now hackin is too easy)
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
#257 - 2014-02-22 00:40:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kylar Renpurs
So I came back to EVE recently purely because I heard about the new hacking minigame, and the lack of "requirement" (will come back to that) for a combat-fit ship for it. I don't know much about hacking in high/low sec, because I've been exclusively sneaking in to nullsec alone to do my hacking, with the rewards being pretty decent so far. I definitely don't disagree the system could do with a few changes, but there's a few things that work, and are good.

1. Keep it soloable in a covops ship.
Again, main reason I came on was to do just this,, sneak into other people's nullsec where the rewards are (hopefully) the best, get that stuff back in to hisec. If it feels like a chore probably if you're a resident or surrounded by blues, in which case it feels just like doing it in hisec, only more profitable. If anti-social whelps like myself can get out and do it, it offers a fat target to pirates trying to get back and forth from nullsec to highsec, and that's a good thing to me. Yeah, having teammates helps a lot here, but hey, if there's reward to be had, a lot will take the risk I reckon.
PS W-Space hacking is an exception here, but I guess that's fair? I don't know, I don't do w-space.

2. But just coz it is soloable, doesn't mean it has to stay soloable
One of the biggest problems is that there's no real consequence of failure, and no cumulative risk vs reward. Your hack is either successful or not. Two strikes and a pretty boom. Meh. A couple things could help here.

- If you *fail* a hack i.e you run out of coherence, it spawns NPCs, making the whole site now unusable to a solo covops frig. That may also encourage people to use bigger ships (Tech 2/3 cruisers) so they actually stand a chance of fighting off some NPC pirates.

- This means the idea of clicking and "maybe" winning needs to be a thing. So instead of the static amounts of damage hack defences do, make it variable, so if you're feeling lucky, you click through, and you might win, or you might lose. But now you need a reason for people to want to keep clicking despite the risk.

- Make the longer you play the hacking game relate directly to the loot you get out. Rather than just "Find the core", have the loot be stored in data-cache-like objects, or even *in* defences. The more of the puzzle board you clear out, the more loot you get out. Then this introduces 'aborting' the hack, and 'jetting' the hack.

- Without a core, the hack has "no end" except player-initiated termination. If the player *aborts* the hack, then it'll simply reset just like now. Do it twice and it blows up as usual. If you "jet" the hack, it spits out a *normal* (not a loot spew) can with whatever you successfully hacked in it, but that's it for that node.

3. Keep the loot known, but randomish.
Although it's pretty implicit, I do like that you can cargo scan to see what loot there is, but there is still a chance you might not get it. Loot spew mechanic *is* a bit naff, but it does achieve this randomisation of the known, possible loot a little. But as mentioned, tying it back to the minigame may help. And yes, keep the goddamn minigame. Mining needs something like this too, because AFK gaming is balls.

Oh, and I read this somewhere else, but totally agree the interfaces for invention should blow up, since these are primarily sourced via hacking.

EDIT: Oh, I just realised, the only ships with hacking/arch bonuses are the frigs+covops variant, and T3 w the right subsystem. Would've thought a cruiser type would've had that too...
OldWolf69
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
#258 - 2014-02-22 01:51:08 UTC  |  Edited by: OldWolf69
I just love the introducing of "uber-easy" ways to do things as a escuse to nerf income.Lol Fozzie did grow up. Good "work" CCP.
Still i must ask. "WHY"?Cool
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#259 - 2014-02-22 03:30:34 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Ivory Kantenu wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


Curious, what exactly is prompting this? It seems like moving it to the past of 'Open to loot' will hurt the economy even more than the current system in place, even if just a little.

They will most likely reduce the amount of loot as well, for balance.
Although I still say sites could be improved by adding more loot types. Increase the breadth of the loot table to prevent the market from being saturated with any given type. For example, skill books already show up. How about putting ALL skill books in the loot table, and setting the drop rate at something below typical player demand? That way the price will not crash. BPO's are another possibility. (Yes, originals). Again just make sure the drop rate is low, so there will still be buys from the NPCs.



yes, we will balance the loot tables accordingly and will take another look at the loot in general :)



When looking at loot tables, any chance some BPCs could have Productivity Level and Material level other than 0? That could be a way to improve the value of the haul without simply flooding the market with more items. It could also add a bit of complexity to determining how much a BPC is worth.
DarthRazr
Doomheim
#260 - 2014-02-22 04:34:45 UTC
I see nothing wrong with the current relic / data setup.. No need to adjust something that isn't broken. Exploring is very easy, I do just as well with a cargo scanner so I know what to grab, not hard to learn at all..

* I must protest this potential change*

* Do not nerf loot as well*

Off my soap box.