Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It's not getting a covops cloak. Calm down already, jeez.

Nestor in its current form will still be quite crap even if it received a cov-ops cloak bonus because I really don't see any scenario where I would decloak it in a PvP situation because the the Dominix is simply better.

The laser bonus is also a joke. I mean really. Give it a laser damage bonus AND perhaps more importantly the powergrid to actually fit lasers and you might actually see non-baddies fit lasers on it. Also increase the rep range by triple. If you are committed to the design philosophy you currently have for the Nestor these are the buffs that I think are necessary. You won't even have to worry about the price.

If the current Nestor was 500m, I might buy it as a collectible but I would still continue to fly Domis or dedicated logistics ships over the Nestor. It's not popular because it's just not that good. The price is just a further insult but isn't actually a core problem. People would continue to fly the Asteros and Stratios even if their LP price doubled and their drop rates halved because they're actually good and have a viable purpose in PvP that's competitive to the performance of comparable ships.

you want to make it a covert ops BS? very well, reduce its overall HP, and add covert ops bonuses. and reduce its turrets to 4, change the 50% bonus to optimal for a 50% capacitor use of lasers, or being crazy, change it for a 50% reduction in alignt time or 50% increase in warp speed, so it can have better scape chances while playing as exploration ship.

but if the ship is gonna be able to use a covert ops cloak then it needs to have a tradeoff....

i iterate again, the ship is intented for WH stuff, so it needs to be able to GTFO fast, or undercovered, you dont jump in a WH, so the jump drive stuff or jump bridge stuff is out of the equation, you have to think in ways to increase its survival chances, and this means better agility than most battleships. but sacrificing DPS for it......

Covert Ops cloaks already have penalties built into the cloak itself.
In addition, this ship is already terrible with far too low PG, and useless bonuses that don't actually work.

So, you could slap a covert ops cloak onto it and you wouldn't see any OP.

The ship is kind of weak as is- very low PG and capacitor, and the lowest velocity of any BS yet- the covert ops cloak wouldn't need any tradeoffs...

On another note, I like your drone incursion idea.

I would be amiable to this idea if they allowed blops to field covops cloaks along with it. But this presents a larger issue that keeps getting raised every time something like this comes up: The need for a cloak rebalance.

The mechanic for cloaking is fairly gimped at the moment; they're only really good for hiding and avoiding scans. I believe that local modules, (AB, tank, etc) should be available to be activated, and have no mobility penalties.
I do think something like weakening the ship's sensor strength would be a good compensation idea, but the cloak mechanics as they stand are fairly stale and restrictive; part of the reason why we feel there is a NEED for covops cloaks on battleships is because the non-covops are basically utter crap for anything except hiding in space.

Now, if you opened them up a bit for the classical sci-fi uses of cloaking devices, the devs would in fact recognize that such severe penalties are unnecessary, and that it would open up pvp in the game quite a bit. A lot of frigates and cruisers, especially if they're fit for solo, would benefit from this mechanic immensely.

Side note: I think the distinction should remain with covops ships and the cloaks they use being the only ships that can warped cloak; things like mwd or mjd would be inoperable in normal cloak because they follow the same laws of physics. MJD especially, even on covops battleships if they end up making them, since it disturbs space far too greatly for the delicate electronics of the cloaking device to compensate.

Covops cloaks have no penalties

I am not sure I can see a way in which cloaking is underpowered, but I am interested to understand why you think it might be.

I agree that there is a loose comparison to be drawn between the Nestor and the Sin. I have never used a blops, so can't comment on how useful that is as a strategy. in other respects the sin has always struck me as somewhat lacklustre when compared to say, the widow.

am I wrong?

I dont think it is underpowered either. In fact, I consider it broken the other way. Regardless, if the current setup sets the bar for balance, then anything more is overpowered.

I suggest finding an argument that cloaking is in some way underpowered as a means of arguing the Nestor will not be objectively OP with a cov-ops cloak when the other ships in its class make do with bonuses for regular cloaks.

I dont fly a Sin either. I know that by the numbers it is pityful in comparison to a T1 Dominix, but has the jump drive and cloak bonuses of the BLOPS to make up for it. I suppose there could be an argument that lacking the jump capability a cov-ops cloak would be appropriate, but I dont believe so. Cov-ops cloaks make a ship immune to being hunted in any practical way. Jumping is useful, but it just bypasses gates while being huntable for a short time. With a cov-ops cloak you can scoot past gate camps a bit easier, and then remain immune to being hunted for as long as you choose.

I agree, BS lack the agility to pull off the sort of dashing escape that smaller cov-ops ships do. On the other hand they dont get microjump capability either. I dont pretend to be an expert on gate crashing.

However, The current BLOPS cant use the cov-ops cloaks. Why should the Nestor be able to do more with cloaking than them? If the idea that losing jump capability would make up for gaining a cov-ops, what is the basis for that? Currently the Nestor can use the same cloak the BLOPS do, but without bonus and without jumping. I dont personally see the Nestor as a bad ship, and if it didnt cost an entire maternity wing of first borns I would likely fly it with some of my corp mates on occasion. However, it does not fit well with the other Sisters ships, and I am willing to aid in discussing the issues surrounding getting it that cloak.

I will have to take some time this weekend and compare the Nestor to a Sin, and maybe the Amarr BLOPS while I am at it to see how its other attributes compare. I suspect its tank will be significantly better than the BLOPS, and likely its a bit faster.