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What's the latest on "Logistics getting on killmails"?

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Chimay
Doomheim
#41 - 2014-02-21 15:51:14 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Chimay wrote:
The value is so good however a great deal have logi alts and it's a conflict to interest to them. The powers to be that currently have them will fight tooth and nail to protect it.


The value is great if you're a good one.

I'd personally like to see a different kind of 'logimail' (really just a killmail but focusing only on logi results). If you rep someone (would have to actually add shield, armour, cap, hull and not be 0 like you can with damage) then that counts as a save and if the ship goes down, it counts as a loss.

You could have separate logistics boards then that track good logistics pilots.

But this is all just wild dream stuff. We don't really need it, just a nice thing to have if it was ever possible.


That would be awesome. Showing how much they repaired, Cap transfer, etc. Love it.
Thead Enco
HR..
#42 - 2014-02-21 16:21:58 UTC
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
Garnoo wrote:
this will never happen...
deal with it

or we will get soon requests about getting on kn for beign close to dying target requests


I believe it will happen, as I've heard CCP talking about it as something they intend to do in the future. I just don't know any specifics, which is why I was asking.


They also said the same thing about "atmosphereic flight" CCP says a lot of things that get tossed around but only to end up in the "Soon(TM)" bin.

TLDR; Stop your whine HTFU fit a civ gun or dual box with logi/DPS dealers,
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-02-21 17:36:55 UTC
Thead Enco wrote:
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
Garnoo wrote:
this will never happen...
deal with it

or we will get soon requests about getting on kn for beign close to dying target requests


I believe it will happen, as I've heard CCP talking about it as something they intend to do in the future. I just don't know any specifics, which is why I was asking.


They also said the same thing about "atmosphereic flight" CCP says a lot of things that get tossed around but only to end up in the "Soon(TM)" bin.

TLDR; Stop your whine HTFU fit a civ gun or dual box with logi/DPS dealers,


Or just stop caring about useless KM...
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-02-21 18:14:24 UTC
It's not a hard concept

to get on the KM you need to do some damage or use hostile e-war

sorry, but remote repairers fulfil neither of those roles
Sointu Luonnotar
Doomheim
#45 - 2014-02-21 18:19:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Sointu Luonnotar
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:

1) There's some kind of technical hurdle making this difficult to implement
2) There's no technical hurdle but it's still a large piece of work and you don't have time
3) You don't want to do this because you are all incredibly evil people who hate logistics pilots and secretly plot to thwart us at every turn.

Anybody in the know care to enlighten me?


I'm technically not in the know, but I could make a few educated guesses.

There probably isn't a technical hurdle to overcome - altough I could see in large fleet fights this making parsing killmails even more taxing, but that's about the only true technical hurlde I can think of.

What is probably the issue is to how to handle the flagging of killmail participation, which, I would think isn't technically that difficult (not having firsthand experience with EVE source code I cannot say either way for sure). So, how I envision it is that any ships that receives logistics gets flagged with an "assisted" flag, so any kills these pilots make show the logistics pilot as an assisting pilot. Maybe this would become a whole new column in the killmail system, I don't really know. This assistance flag would remain as long as the pilots remains in the same grid as the logistics pilot.

Now here's obviously one problem - should the logistics pilot get killmails from a pilot they are not actively assisting anymore? Primaries change often, and again talking about big fleet fights people might remain on the same grid for hours. This could make logistics pilots killmail kingpins, and as evidently so, so, so many pilots love to whore for killmails, in an extreme case the field could be full of logistiscs and little DPS. So I would think, the largest hurdle to overcome is to invent a way to make the system fair for everyone involved and not to break the balance of shiptypes on an average battlefield.


Edit:
Reading some of the posts in this thread I would suggest logi pilots going on strike, seeing how lowly people tend to value our contributions.
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#46 - 2014-02-21 18:20:32 UTC
Shadowschild wrote:
If one day you apply for a corp, they may randomly check your killboard & you don't want to show up in a logi ship doing zero damage, they will think your a self serving douche.


That's not my experience at all. But we've already established we don't speak to the same people.
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2014-02-21 19:55:36 UTC
OK let's see...

- For all the people saying "why do you care about KMs so much"?
- Think of it this way. How about if CCP had coded it so that only the killing blow shows on a KM? Or only the top damage? Or only those two but nobody else? You would be crying your little eyes out and ranting on the forums about how you totally jammed out that guy in your falcon who was already being murdered by 20 other people. This is a game about spaceships fighting other spaceships. If you're on that grid, risking your ship, then it's reasonable to have an acknowledgement in the battle report that you were actually present. Simple as that.
You CANNOT seriously argue that somebody who puts their ship on the line and risks losing it to help their fleet deserves no recognition. Not only do you not deserve the help of people who have trained months to be effective logi pilots, but you're just a flat-out selfish douche.

- For all the people saying "Nooo this would ruin neutral alts"
- Oh noes, your super sekrit logi alt that mysteriously appears on grid to rep you when you are "soloing" will now be obvious. This is not a good reason why genuine logi pilots shouldn't get recognition. I honestly couldn't care less that your attempts to look like you're some l33t solo pvper are shown up for what they really are.

-
Quote:
TLDR; Stop your whine HTFU fit a civ gun or dual box with logi/DPS dealers

- This is super adorable. You're just desperate to find somebody to say 'HTFU' to, huh? What I actually said was "Hey, there's a planned feature, does anybody know the timescale?". Yeah that's some serious whining right there. 0/10 wouldn't be trolled by again.


The bottom line is this:
CCP have already acknowledged this is a sensible thing to do and have said they plan to do it. It's just a case of wondering if there is an approximate timescale laid out for it.
Tesco Ergo Sum
#48 - 2014-02-21 20:01:08 UTC
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:

[snipped]

The bottom line is this:
CCP have already acknowledged this is a sensible thing to do and have said they plan to do it. It's just a case of wondering if there is an approximate timescale laid out for it.


Dear CCP

Please allow others to gauge whether I should be primaried first...

Like I don't have enough problems already!

No thanks, I prefer to fly below the radar.
Orlacc
#49 - 2014-02-21 20:13:02 UTC
My Armor Repairer wants to be on Killmails.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-02-21 20:36:04 UTC
From the Winter summit minutes

Quote:
#10 on the list is to put Logistics pilots onto killmails. Mike Azariah pointed out that
Logistics pilots get part of the bounty, so it’s clearly tracked. Soundwave wondered
aloud if it’s the right solution. “Logistics pilots want recognition, but is the killmail the
right place? Is shoehorning the information into the right place?” Ripard Teg brought up
an idea from elsewhere –“ if you’re present for a kill, you get kill credit, but likewise if
you are repping someone who dies, you get points against you.” Mynnna agreed that
whatever solution is settled on here, acknowledging failure should happen as well.
Korvin argued that logistics are “just another thing” involved in a kill, like ammo,
modules, etc. and they should be recorded. Ripard Teg pointed out we’re all gamers
and are driven by achievement, and that it also is an intelligence source. “It sizes up the
sides in a fight.” Veritas pointed out that battle reports like that, such as dog .net, do not
actually exist in EVE, but if they did, that may be a more appropriate way to display
logistics participation. Soundwave concluded that he thinks they should solve it, and
he’s just not sure if killmails are the right place for it


If the logi wasn't a part of the kill why does he get a share of the bounty

If the logi isn't doing damage what does he get aggro/timers when he reps the offensive ships

Either you are a part of the fight or you are not and logis ARE

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#51 - 2014-02-21 20:51:51 UTC
Maybe the code can't differentiate between self reps, passive reps, and RR? They could always just make it that each member of a fleet gets in on a KM. When I ran as a healing class in DAoC, I'd get realm points for group kills as long as I healed someone that actually did some DPS on the kill.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#52 - 2014-02-22 05:45:54 UTC
Easy answer - it's something that the majority of players want, CCP trolls hard, there you have it.
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2014-02-22 05:49:05 UTC
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
Maybe the code can't differentiate between self reps, passive reps, and RR?


If this was true, then ships with an active tanking bonus would get massively increased reps from logi. I'm pretty sure the code can tell.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2014-02-22 07:33:16 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Easy answer - it's something that the majority of players want

I seriously doubt that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2014-02-22 07:34:20 UTC
Logi should not get on killmails because there's no good, consistent way of making it make sense.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dave Stark
#56 - 2014-02-22 07:35:02 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Easy answer - it's something that the majority of players want

I seriously doubt that.


more than those who don't want it, at the very least.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2014-02-22 07:38:13 UTC
If you want to be on killmails, stop flying logi.
If you want the best of both worlds, carry Warrior IIs and assist them to someone.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dave Stark
#58 - 2014-02-22 07:40:06 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
If you want to be on killmails, stop flying logi.
If you want the best of both worlds, carry Warrior IIs and assist them to someone.


alternatively, kill mails could just show all the participants in a fight?

not to mention, neither of those 'solutions' work in the conditions that i fly logi in.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2014-02-22 07:47:55 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
If you want to be on killmails, stop flying logi.
If you want the best of both worlds, carry Warrior IIs and assist them to someone.


alternatively, kill mails could just show all the participants in a fight?

Define participants.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dave Stark
#60 - 2014-02-22 07:50:37 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
If you want to be on killmails, stop flying logi.
If you want the best of both worlds, carry Warrior IIs and assist them to someone.


alternatively, kill mails could just show all the participants in a fight?

Define participants.


Here.