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Crime & Punishment

 
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The greatest scam of EVE online

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Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#201 - 2014-02-21 06:58:26 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Louis Robichaud wrote:
I don't think Gevlon has given serious thought to what RvB got out of this on top of fights. We got POCOs, lots of POCOs, and their associated income. During the great POCO rush of November 2013, only 2 groups were ready for a big grab - RvB, and the Goons. Cooperation made a lot of sense for both RvB and the CFC.

Of course, this income would be insignificant for the Goons, but for us it's quite nice. We have no moons, our members do little ratting/missioning so tax income is low, we don't rent space... but POCO cash we have!


Ever heard of BoTLORD treaty? Goons and PL agreed not to directly attack the structures of each other in their respective regions they "own". You could have the same. Split the systems, you don't attack POCOs in Goon systems, they don't attack yours.

But instead you choose to go full ally, actively defending Goon assets. Since your POCOs were never in danger from anyone but Goons, you are bullied servants at best. Since my tiny alliance can contest Goon POCOs, it's clear that you were not forced to kiss the ring (and even then you could just have no POCOs). Above all, you could just give them the finger and "have fun fights". You choose to defend them. Just like you choose to defend Goons earlier this year. Which means you are their sockpuppet since years.

By the way I know that the reason Goons own POCOs is mostly "lol we have POCOs".
Considering the fact that you are in RvB, you greatly undervalue "lol".


Begs the question then why go after RvB like this? You want the goon pocos, RvB is stopping you getting the pocos, so why not try to talk to them and get them to sign a non-aggression pact instead of mutual defense pact with goons and then get the hell out of yr way? You know its a bad idea to fight a 2 front war right? Didn't work for napoleon, didnt end well for Adolf. One fight at a time if you want to win!

Will gank for food
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#202 - 2014-02-21 07:50:40 UTC
Who cares what the situation was five years ago? The situation now is more relevant. RvB is clearly aligned with a bloc. I think that is unfortunate given their strong history of just not caring. That's what made them so unique and useful.

I have consistently recommended that new PVPers join RvB until they find their feet. Now I hesitate. Perception matters even if the issue is actually irrelevant.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#203 - 2014-02-21 08:04:59 UTC
Tarojan wrote:
Begs the question then why go after RvB like this? You want the goon pocos, RvB is stopping you getting the pocos, so why not try to talk to them and get them to sign a non-aggression pact instead of mutual defense pact with goons and then get the hell out of yr way? You know its a bad idea to fight a 2 front war right? Didn't work for napoleon, didnt end well for Adolf. One fight at a time if you want to win!

Given the amount of sewage he spilled on them, that would be quite an achievement.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#204 - 2014-02-21 08:13:23 UTC
Tarojan wrote:

Begs the question then why go after RvB like this? You want the goon pocos, RvB is stopping you getting the pocos, so why not try to talk to them and get them to sign a non-aggression pact instead of mutual defense pact with goons and then get the hell out of yr way? You know its a bad idea to fight a 2 front war right? Didn't work for napoleon, didnt end well for Adolf. One fight at a time if you want to win!

I have better idea. I'll warp to a belt during incursion and when the rats arrive, I just be diplomatic and nice and convince them to leave me alone. After all they aren't mining, we don't have conflicting interests.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
Bumsicle Wedgie
Doomheim
#205 - 2014-02-21 08:13:32 UTC
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#206 - 2014-02-21 08:18:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Zappity wrote:
Who cares what the situation was five years ago? The situation now is more relevant. RvB is clearly aligned with a bloc. I think that is unfortunate given their strong history of just not caring. That's what made them so unique and useful.

I have consistently recommended that new PVPers join RvB until they find their feet. Now I hesitate. Perception matters even if the issue is actually irrelevant.
Surely that should encourage you to recommend new players join them more, you know, them showing that not only do they PvP a lot, but they are willing to work diplomatically to generate content, while still letting them fly into goons space and pew pew some people.

If they refused to be diplomatic with any group that's ever ganked some noobs and upset people, they'd pretty much have to roll out alone.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2014-02-21 08:32:04 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Tarojan wrote:

Begs the question then why go after RvB like this? You want the goon pocos, RvB is stopping you getting the pocos, so why not try to talk to them and get them to sign a non-aggression pact instead of mutual defense pact with goons and then get the hell out of yr way? You know its a bad idea to fight a 2 front war right? Didn't work for napoleon, didnt end well for Adolf. One fight at a time if you want to win!

I have better idea. I'll warp to a belt during incursion and when the rats arrive, I just be diplomatic and nice and convince them to leave me alone. After all they aren't mining, we don't have conflicting interests.

And because of this you are universally regarded as an idiot.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool
Danalee
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#208 - 2014-02-21 08:35:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
THIS:
Zappity wrote:
Who cares what the situation was five years ago? The situation now is more relevant. RvB is clearly aligned with a bloc. I think that is unfortunate given their strong history of just not caring. That's what made them so unique and useful.

I have consistently recommended that new PVPers join RvB until they find their feet. Now I hesitate. Perception matters even if the issue is actually irrelevant.


And this:
Mangala Solaris wrote:

Dear fellow RvB-ers. We have lot of fun in both Red versus Blue and purple wars.

But we unfortunately live in a *metagame* universe, where shooting the wrong Falcon can literally break coalitions. In a universe where spies, space-politicians, propagandist do their "serious" stuff, instead of just undocking and having fun.

We cannot allow even the appearance of being political, because we cannot allow a newbie think that if he joins us, he'll be banned from half of Nullsec by declared to be the spy of the other half. No matter how accurately we try to balance our actions, by luck or by others doing *metagame* we can end up fighting a war for someone else.

So, from now on, we will not initiate wars. We just fight Red versus Blue and of course we fight anyone who attacks us. We will also organize mutual wars with willing entities. While it takes some of the fun, it saves more.


And also, I'd like this cleared up aswel;
Mangala Solaris wrote:
Mangala Solaris : (26 January 2014 - 07:15 PM) Im repricing on our kbs so may fix it may not be honestly idgaf

26th January? I was on my way back from the Winter Summit in Iceland at that stage. Stuck on a rail replacement bus till gone 8pm.


So there is someone on the RVB shoutbox using your name? Or are you saying you didn't post that ever?
Oh and, suddenly the shoutbox is restricted, coincidence, I'm sure.

Sorry to be so hard on you, its a consequence of you being in the pants on fire hypocrit camp, I tend to paint those with the same brush. idgaf Smile

D.

Bear

↓↓ Might want to look up the meaning of the word contest Roll You say they aren't contested and than describe at lenght that they are. It's also comedy to see you lot trying to drown a discussion in stuck up faux rebuttals and FYAD type nonsense

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Domino Artan
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#209 - 2014-02-21 08:46:20 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:

Since my tiny alliance can contest Goon POCOs[..]


It's a fantasy that lemmings or marmite have ever contested a POCO. They haven't taken a single one, when they reffed a bunch of them during the 0-W deployment, 50 Goons fleeted up to to rep them and neither lemming or marmite came to fight for them. You all seem scared of Mitten's emissary in High Sec; Powers.

The numbers turning up for these ops are going up because the rage after you fail to take one is so delicious. If you shut up and poked away you'd probably get somewhere - but you can't shut up.

It's comedy to see you trying to meta RvB with a tactic one level below 'look behind you' - by calling them pets.
gnshadowninja
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#210 - 2014-02-21 10:49:15 UTC
Domino Artan wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:

Since my tiny alliance can contest Goon POCOs[..]


It's a fantasy that lemmings or marmite have ever contested a POCO. They haven't taken a single one, when they reffed a bunch of them during the 0-W deployment, 50 Goons fleeted up to to rep them and neither lemming or marmite came to fight for them. You all seem scared of Mitten's emissary in High Sec; Powers.

The numbers turning up for these ops are going up because the rage after you fail to take one is so delicious. If you shut up and poked away you'd probably get somewhere - but you can't shut up.

It's comedy to see you trying to meta RvB with a tactic one level below 'look behind you' - by calling them pets.







Understand, marmite has no use for POCOs and your blind to this.
General Lemming
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#211 - 2014-02-21 11:18:55 UTC
Anyone seen my purple pony ?Cool
Xaerael Endiel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#212 - 2014-02-21 13:15:16 UTC
gnshadowninja wrote:
Domino Artan wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:

Since my tiny alliance can contest Goon POCOs[..]


It's a fantasy that lemmings or marmite have ever contested a POCO. They haven't taken a single one, when they reffed a bunch of them during the 0-W deployment, 50 Goons fleeted up to to rep them and neither lemming or marmite came to fight for them. You all seem scared of Mitten's emissary in High Sec; Powers.

The numbers turning up for these ops are going up because the rage after you fail to take one is so delicious. If you shut up and poked away you'd probably get somewhere - but you can't shut up.

It's comedy to see you trying to meta RvB with a tactic one level below 'look behind you' - by calling them pets.







Understand, marmite has no use for POCOs and your blind to this.


Can I take this as admission that marmite has no interest in shooting POCOs, and you're just taking advantage of someone who's clearly mentally ill?

Also, it's "you're", short for "you are".
Louis Robichaud
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2014-02-21 13:36:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Louis Robichaud
Zappity wrote:
Who cares what the situation was five years ago? The situation now is more relevant. RvB is clearly aligned with a bloc. I think that is unfortunate given their strong history of just not caring. That's what made them so unique and useful.

I have consistently recommended that new PVPers join RvB until they find their feet. Now I hesitate. Perception matters even if the issue is actually irrelevant.


Hello there. While the roots of the presents are found in the past, etc etc, you have a point. But gevlon has claimed, amongst other things, that RvB was created by the goons. This claim doesn't bear any sort of scrutiny.

RvB is working with the goons *for POCOs only*. That is it. I agree with you that this limited cooperation may "look a bit odd" to some.

The problem we have here is that Gevlon is on a one man propaganda war. Most of what he's stating is nonsense, and we have soundly refuted it. But Gevlon isn't interested in facts. This is a problem because although what he says isn't founded in reality, it could sway someone who's new to the game and doesn't understand the intricacies of politics, wardecs etc

I blog a bit http://hspew.blogspot.ca
General Lemming
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#214 - 2014-02-21 13:42:02 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lemming
We will take over every single poco in Eve. I will let loose my burning passion on you, breathing out on you the fire of my wrath and I will give you up into the hands of men like Lemmings, trained to destruction!

Lemmings 21:31
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#215 - 2014-02-21 14:05:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Since my tiny alliance can contest Goon POCOs,


how many have you taken from us

my records show zero, but surely you can't be chestbeating about taking zero, that would be very odd behaviour
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
By the way I know that the reason Goons own POCOs is mostly "lol we have POCOs"


RvBee POCOs make more than your entire net worth in a surprisingly small amount of time, and there is nothing you can do about it goober.

oh no wait

maybe you can use excel charts to take them down?

have you tried running the numbers on how many graphs-per-second it would take to reinforce a POCO, it would be a number you can achieve with some hard work I am sure

Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Just like you choose to defend Goons earlier this year


When you're saying things that even you know aren't true, in order to keep going with your argument, surely this must feel terrible? Can you point out some battle-reports where RvB have assisted us in suicide ganking? Presumably they would be taking out ECM, logi, and anything actually trying to stop us doing it.

How angry are you on a scale of 1 to 10 that you will never have the ability to harm us in any way?

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#216 - 2014-02-21 14:07:55 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Tarojan wrote:

Begs the question then why go after RvB like this? You want the goon pocos, RvB is stopping you getting the pocos, so why not try to talk to them and get them to sign a non-aggression pact instead of mutual defense pact with goons and then get the hell out of yr way? You know its a bad idea to fight a 2 front war right? Didn't work for napoleon, didnt end well for Adolf. One fight at a time if you want to win!

I have better idea. I'll warp to a belt during incursion and when the rats arrive, I just be diplomatic and nice and convince them to leave me alone. After all they aren't mining, we don't have conflicting interests.


Herein lies the problem you face in EvE, Gevlon. On a very basic level, you can't even see the difference between the actions of an NPC and a person.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#217 - 2014-02-21 14:11:22 UTC
Danalee wrote:
↓↓ Might want to look up the meaning of the word contest Roll You say they aren't contested and than describe at lenght that they are. It's also comedy to see you lot trying to drown a discussion in stuck up faux rebuttals and FYAD type nonsense


You've never been on Grid with another fleet to compete/contest for the objective. You've done lots of setting yourself up for the contest (the RFing part) but the actual contest has been something that you're not quite up to yet.

Gevlon pays you either way though, so in the current setup I can't imagine why you would contest them.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#218 - 2014-02-21 14:19:10 UTC
Louis Robichaud wrote:

RvB is working with the goons *for POCOs only*. That is it. I agree with you that this limited cooperation may "look a bit odd" to some.

Oh, and Burn Jita. That's even Mangala admitted. I'm afraid you didn't get the latest damage control memo. Please check alliance MOTD more often.

The current official story is "RvB worked with Goons for POCOs and burn Jita for fun". By the way, this covers 2/3 of the highsec war activity of Goons and 2/3 of the non-consensual war activity of RvB too. That 1/3 when Goons fought alone totally proves that RvB isn't cooperating.

Khanh'rhh wrote:

Herein lies the problem you face in EvE, Gevlon. On a very basic level, you can't even see the difference between the actions of an NPC and a person.

The difference exists if the person has a choice. I mean if RvB directors would be able to make decisions, I could try to influence it. However the decision making of RvB leadership is identical to the belt rat:
1: object sighted
2: compare object with the list of hostiles provided by the programmer (Dev for belt rat, Goons for RvB)
3: if comparison is positive, attack, if not, ignore

There is absolutely nothing I (or anyone) can do to change the decisions of RvB or the belt rat. They were made long before I started playing EVE. Trying to engage diplomacy with either one would only provide a hilarious chatlog. The only rational response is destroying it.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
Xaerael Endiel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#219 - 2014-02-21 14:23:05 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:

words


Friendly advice: Quit flapping your gums before you make yourself look even more demented. I'd take a good 6 months away from posting anything if I was in your shoes.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#220 - 2014-02-21 14:38:01 UTC
If I were RVB, I would join goonswarm. Just because. Maybe then Goblin would STFU.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment