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Loot Spew 4 Months Later

First post
Author
Valencia Mariana
Perkone
#221 - 2014-02-21 09:23:48 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of.


Your joking right? The mini-game was the worst thing to happen to PvE since launch. I have nightmares and serious RSI in my right arm and a nervous twitch...

Please remove the minigame too!
Salvos Rhoska
#222 - 2014-02-21 09:38:20 UTC
Valencia Mariana wrote:


Your joking right? The mini-game was the worst thing to happen to PvE since launch. I have nightmares and serious RSI in my right arm and a nervous twitch..!


Your joking right?

If not, you should probably go see a doctor and discontinue playing EVE for the time being to deal with the psychological trauma causing you nighmares, and stop making your RSI worse by playing a game that aggravates it.

Just saying.
Valencia Mariana
Perkone
#223 - 2014-02-21 09:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Valencia Mariana
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Valencia Mariana wrote:


Your joking right? The mini-game was the worst thing to happen to PvE since launch. I have nightmares and serious RSI in my right arm and a nervous twitch..!


Your joking right?

If not, you should probably go see a doctor and discontinue playing EVE for the time being to deal with the psychological trauma causing you nighmares, and stop making your RSI worse by playing a game that aggravates it.

Just saying.


The mini-game is ridiculous. Why would anyone implement a click fest of repetitiveness into a common wormhole chore? It was obvious it was going to become unbearable after a day. I mean if you had to do it like once in a blue moon then yeah it would be cool and stuff but if you pve several times a week or more it is just mind numbingly boring.

And stop trolling threads on your alt :P
Salvos Rhoska
#224 - 2014-02-21 09:48:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Valencia Mariana wrote:


And stop trolling threads on your alt :P


Please review my suggestion here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4263311#post4263311

Since it seems CCP will be making a change to the hack/spew mechanics, but are seemingly still undecided on some of the specifics, now is the time to make suggestions/proposals to help inform those from a community perspective.

Personally, I dont think "remove the minigame" attitudes are constuctive or conducive to a better game or mechanics.

The anti-spew camp has three main argument positions:
1) The sites involve too many minigames. First probing, then hacking, and finally spew. Fair enough argument, but to me atleast, its clear that if those factors are reduced, it will directly translate to lower rewards. Because less effort/risk is always equal to less reward. Frankly, data/relic sites are already quite low reward. Im wary of the commensurate consequences of making the sites easier by removing spew, which to me, would directly translate to lower rewards as well.

2) Im genuinely (no troll intended) surprised by how many people seem to have real dexterity issues with actually completing the spew mechanic. I dont think these people are lying or exaggerating, I take them at their word that it really is apparently hard for them. Coming from an RTS background, the manual dexterity required is trivial to me, but I am perhaps setting the nominal standard too high. My suggestion aims to mitigate that for those people, while still rewarding appropriately those who do take the rime and effort to do the spew game as well.

3) Hardware and connection related concerns, such as the small and stacked nature of rhe spew (which do however disperse geometrically as the spew spreads out). Also the fact that the spew is not indicated in overview but instead requires attention on the actual star field (which is unusual for EVE in many ways, which I personally like, but I understand others have limitations regarding small screen size etc). An indirect but workable solution would be making the spew cans detectable and selectable through the Overview so that people can accurately identify the cans and their distance for better retrieval.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#225 - 2014-02-21 09:52:12 UTC
Quote:
If not, you should probably go see a doctor and discontinue playing EVE for the time being to deal with the psychological trauma causing you nighmares, and stop making your RSI worse by playing a game that aggravates it.


I have same thing when can starts hissing. Those green crosses...

Quote:
-Button 1: Access Node:
---You can directly loot from the nodes cargo hold a smaller percentage of randomly determined cans from the site (from the selection that otherwise would have spewed). You have no control over what cans are randomly selected.

Button 2: Eject Node:
---Cans spew as now, and player can play the spew minigame for a better controlled chance at desired cans from the normal spew mechanic.


How about 3rd option? Call for rats. We can use Nestor finally.

Play Dust if you want reflex based activity. Loot spew don't fit in EvE.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#226 - 2014-02-21 10:13:21 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Chan'aar wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


Praise be to Bob.

Make sure you wear a big ID badge at fanfest, I want to buy you lots of beer.

not just you m8



I am now quite excited for fanfest!

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle

CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#227 - 2014-02-21 10:13:38 UTC
Kel hound wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.




I love you Affinity



<3

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle

Salvos Rhoska
#228 - 2014-02-21 10:15:30 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
[Play Dust if you want reflex based activity. Loot spew don't fit in EvE.


With all due respect, the micro required for spew retrieval is nothing like an FPS. It is however quite similar to RTS.

Primary is camera positioning so you can observe the cans without them being cluttered so you can distinguish which are of interest to you. As the cans spread you progresively zoom out using mousewheel or r/l button panning. Also positoning camera sothere are no light sources or light colored objects behind the spew that make reading the can identifiers difficult.

Once you have identified and selected the first can, you have about 5s to hover over the rest to find the next can of interest and to click it, once. While the previous and the qued selection are enacted, you again have about 5s to peruse the remaining cans dor the next simple single click selection. And so forth until the cans despawn.

I understand that this may be difficult for some, though I cant relate to it. But Ill take these people at their word that it is indeed hard for them and try to suggest solutions in light of that.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#229 - 2014-02-21 10:18:22 UTC
Salvos Rhoska
#230 - 2014-02-21 10:24:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Mara Rinn wrote:


I dont see the relevance. Could you explain please?

All I see is a a huge number of elements which defy relevance, such as it being a separate game, separate client/server interaction system, having PvP implications whereas spew looting has absolutely none, as well as the author himself recommending that it is the onus of the player to ensure they have a connection capable of playing an online game with.

AUS connections are famously poor due to their geographic isolation and lack of data pipelines off the island to the rest of the world. Same is true of South Africa. Also true that internet service providers in both these countries are gouging the hell out of their clients with bandwidth/up-download quotas. But that is neither EVE nor the rest of the worlds concern, nor should it be more than a marginal consideration in terms of game mechanics.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#231 - 2014-02-21 10:31:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremiah Saken
Quote:
I understand that this may be difficult for some, though I cant relate to it. But Ill take these people at their word that it is indeed hard for them and try to suggest solutions in light of that.

Originally this mechanism was for group exploration, not the risk-reward. After some training i can get all loot i want so what's the purpose of it?I had some ideas few pages in this thread what to do with it and hacking game. I think its easier for Devs just to remove it. First of all its a game i want to have fun playing it. This is the purpose of games i think.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

iLLeLogicaL
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#232 - 2014-02-21 10:39:10 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Valencia Mariana wrote:


And stop trolling threads on your alt :P


Please review my suggestion here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4263311#post4263311

Since it seems CCP will be making a change to the hack/spew mechanics, but are seemingly still undecided on some of the specifics, now is the time to make suggestions/proposals to help inform those from a community perspective.

Personally, I dont think "remove the minigame" attitudes are constuctive or conducive to a better game or mechanics.

The anti-spew camp has three main argument positions:
1) The sites involve too many minigames. First probing, then hacking, and finally spew. Fair enough argument, but to me atleast, its clear that if those factors are reduced, it will directly translate to lower rewards. Because less effort/risk is always equal to less reward. Frankly, data/relic sites are already quite low reward. Im wary of the commensurate consequences of making the sites easier by removing spew, which to me, would directly translate to lower rewards as well.

2) Im genuinely (no troll intended) surprised by how many people seem to have real dexterity issues with actually completing the spew mechanic. I dont think these people are lying or exaggerating, I take them at their word that it really is apparently hard for them. Coming from an RTS background, the manual dexterity required is trivial to me, but I am perhaps setting the nominal standard too high. My suggestion aims to mitigate that for those people, while still rewarding appropriately those who do take the rime and effort to do the spew game as well.

3) Hardware and connection related concerns, such as the small and stacked nature of rhe spew (which do however disperse geometrically as the spew spreads out). Also the fact that the spew is not indicated in overview but instead requires attention on the actual star field (which is unusual for EVE in many ways, which I personally like, but I understand others have limitations regarding small screen size etc). An indirect but workable solution would be making the spew cans detectable and selectable through the Overview so that people can accurately identify the cans and their distance for better retrieval.


Don't forget that in wormholes there's no such thing as no npcs on site, so you have to kill those aswell before you can start even with the hacking.
Or even a site that triggers more npcs after you hack some cans. Even with perfect alt and implants and 2 guys on the can, I occasionaly miss a can.

And above let's not forget in wormholes the cans are completely random, so you HAVE to pick them all.

Good riddance to this nonsense confetti containers
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#233 - 2014-02-21 10:42:25 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Nice. I really want to be grateful that you "hopefully" intend to do it. But it's like being grateful that somebody promises to stop kicking you in the crotch. Sure it's fabulous if they actually do stop, but you are still kinda pissed that they started in the first place and completely ignored you the many many many times you begged them to stop. So... yeah.

Plus it's just a "hopefully". Been fed more than enough of those by CCP to know just how much that's worth. Cool if you finally do it. But I ain't holding my breath. And it's still almost a year too long if it even does happen in summer. Sorry to be all bittervet, but you guys reap what you sow...
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#234 - 2014-02-21 15:34:26 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Chan'aar wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


Praise be to Bob.

Make sure you wear a big ID badge at fanfest, I want to buy you lots of beer.

not just you m8



I am now quite excited for fanfest!


Badges? We dont need no stinking badges!...

But seriously guys no need for her to wear an id all you have to do is look for the prettiest lady there.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#235 - 2014-02-21 15:43:25 UTC
Valencia Mariana wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.
Please say you're not trolling us with this post. The hacking game was a great addition; the loot spew was terrible. It's awesome to hear that it's being taken care of.


Your joking right? The mini-game was the worst thing to happen to PvE since launch. I have nightmares and serious RSI in my right arm and a nervous twitch...

Please remove the minigame too!

I like the minigame.
Especially since I got really good at it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#236 - 2014-02-21 15:50:48 UTC
Quote:
But seriously guys no need for her to wear an id all you have to do is look for the prettiest lady there.


So he is she? Shame i can't afford plane to Iceland...

Quote:
I like the minigame.
Especially since I got really good at it.


Its not annoying, and i hope Devs expand it.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#237 - 2014-02-21 16:22:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Mara Rinn wrote:

From the perspective of the PvPer, the aim of an exploration site is to keep the explorer visible in space long enough to probe down and scram. The old system of cycling a module was much better at achieving this than the modern system: I can hack the can and just click the parts and data containers, then disappear. There's no finesse to hacking: just keep clicking hacking nodes until you defeat the system core.


There's some weird cognitive dissonance here, how can you compare the two systems and then criticize the current one for a "lack of finesse," specifically in the context of PVP? The new system is much more effective from the perspective of a a pvp encounter. The old system of staring at a cycling module was awful, because it required no attention or interaction from the hacker. That's boring for the hacker, and it also means the hacker can instantly respond (flee) any threat that uncloaks. The minigame now involves interaction from the hacker, meaning they have to focus on the game (in the case of the numerous difficult boards one may find), and keep an eye on the overview for threats. And in quickly clearing a hard board, there's a lot of finesse. If you go too fast you will make non-optimal choices in completing the game, and to me its well balanced enough (with t2 module, nullsec) that even a minor mistake like that has been enough to lose me the board.

There is absolutely ZERO "finesse" in activating a module on a can and waiting for it to open, then repeating for every single can. The current gameplay of scanning the cans, evaluating their loot, splitting attention between the game and the environment is all much more interesting, and I find it incredible that anyone could believe otherwise.

I haven't done much hacking in lowsec, maybe the boards are all so easy that you can bulldoze through everything? The difficulty seems perfectly calibrated in null (being both doable with skill level 4, but w/ a significant benefit to get level 5 without making anything trivial).

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Limarr
The Black Swarm
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#238 - 2014-02-21 18:05:56 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.


Any change to keep the spew mechanic optional for players who like it?


Some scripts you have to add to your hacking module can handle this.

1.) Focused Hacking Script: direct access to loot, lower reward
2.) Scattering Hacking Script: spews containers, higher reward
3.) no script: 50/50


The mechanic itself is good, but annoying to do this every time, so let the player decide.

Steven Hackett
Ehefkae
#239 - 2014-02-21 19:15:05 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
We are removing it, hopefully for Summer.

\o/
Please also include the removal of that king facebook game you added instead of the module cycle.. Thanks..
(yes, I consider it bad when the developers idea of fun is a minigame worse than candycrush - maybe you shold ban facebook on those work PC's to prevent other devs getting hooked on these bad ideas.. - thanks)

Limarr wrote:


Any change to keep the spew mechanic optional for players who like it?


Some scripts you have to add to your hacking module can handle this.

1.) Focused Hacking Script: direct access to loot, lower reward
2.) Scattering Hacking Script: spews containers, higher reward
3.) no script: 50/50


The mechanic itself is good, but annoying to do this every time, so let the player decide.


No thanks
Bellatren Star
Doomheim
#240 - 2014-02-21 19:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Bellatren Star
I found the lewt spew a fun part of exploration :(

I enjoyed the risk factor.

Bellatren Star: - "I have absolutly no idea what's on the other side of that NullSec gate but i'm going to jump my Freighter in anyway! #YOLO!." - Just some provi guy