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Reduce Sov Structure HP by a Substantial Amount
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Sigras
Conglomo
#1 - 2014-01-20 11:10:57 UTC
Seriously, why do structures need so much HP?

As it currently stands, the I-Hub has 75 million shield HP, so you need to do 56,250,000 damage to it to put it into reinforced mode. Thats just under 80 moros minutes.

I understand that you want to avoid the "herp derp we were a 30 man frigate fleet and we were bored so we RFed your I-Hum" situation, but I really think 56.25 million HP is a bit excessive.

I say reduce the shield and armor HP by a factor of 10 and then give them each 50% resists to all damage types.

This would reduce the damage needed to be done to put the I-Hub into reinforced mode to 11,250,000 which i feel is much less of a grind fest, but the best part is that you reduce the damage needed to RR in order to fully repair the I-Hub to 7.5 million because lets be honest, RRing an I-Hub is really just a tedious chore.

Dont forget, the defender will still have ample time to muster a defense while the attacker waits 3 hours for the SBUs to online

Thoughts?
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#2 - 2014-01-20 11:25:46 UTC
Given that SBUs can already serve as a warning of an offender's intentions, it seems logic not to consider that the I-Hub has to take a long time to reinforce if undefended.

It only needs to have enough HP that one cannot focus on it while ignoring the defending fleet. 11 mil HP seems okay. And shield resistances are indeed the key to make that possible.

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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2014-01-20 12:47:26 UTC
Would this not mean that if you had half a dozen dreads and a pile of harassment SBUs, you could RF an entire region in ~three hours?
Igor Nappi
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-01-20 13:07:01 UTC
Remove formal sov and the structures instead.

Furthermore, I think that links must be removed from the game.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5 - 2014-01-20 15:17:28 UTC
80 Moros minutes? So 10 Moros RF it in 8 minutes right? And you think that is 'Too Much'... wtf! Or 80 Moros do it in..... One minute?
How fast do you want this to be, 30 seconds too long for you to wait, instant gratification much?
Sigras
Conglomo
#6 - 2014-01-22 09:47:45 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Would this not mean that if you had half a dozen dreads and a pile of harassment SBUs, you could RF an entire region in ~three hours?

If you cant repel half a dozen dreads from your space given 3 hours notice, you probably shouldnt have that space anyway; If your strategy is more "pick up the pieces afterward" then you might actually get more people to show up to the OP knowing that they only have to rep 1/10th the amount.

Additionally, currently you can reinforce an I-Hub with 16 moros in one siege cycle. How many entities do you suppose would be willing to commit 6 dreads who arent willing now to commit 16 dreads? Im guessing not many.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
80 Moros minutes? So 10 Moros RF it in 8 minutes right? And you think that is 'Too Much'... wtf! Or 80 Moros do it in..... One minute?
How fast do you want this to be, 30 seconds too long for you to wait, instant gratification much?

Yeah because sitting and shooting at an I-Hub that doesnt shoot back after the war has been won adds *SO MUCH* complexity to the game . . . Roll

Im not suggesting getting rid of the 3 hour SBU online time, im trying to reduce the pointless tedium that is sov warfare because really sov warfare should be about shooting at the enemy fleet not grinding down pointless structures.
Sigras
Conglomo
#7 - 2014-02-21 08:31:30 UTC
Igor Nappi wrote:
Remove formal sov and the structures instead.

Ok, but this could be implemented immediately not when the devs get around to it in 2050
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#8 - 2014-02-21 09:03:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
I want Anti Forcefield/POS Ammunition!

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-02-21 10:26:26 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Would this not mean that if you had half a dozen dreads and a pile of harassment SBUs, you could RF an entire region in ~three hours?



If no one lives there to really defend it? YES. And it shoudl be like that.

You want the region? BE THERE TO DEFEND IT!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2014-02-21 10:34:33 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Would this not mean that if you had half a dozen dreads and a pile of harassment SBUs, you could RF an entire region in ~three hours?



If no one lives there to really defend it? YES. And it shoudl be like that.

You want the region? BE THERE TO DEFEND IT!



So any alliance that isn't huge, with a presence in every timezone, should not hold SOV, correct?
Sigras
Conglomo
#11 - 2014-02-21 10:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigras
because reinforce timers arent a thing? I mean seriously how much of a deterrent do you really think that extra HP is and how much do you think should be chalked up to the reinforce timers?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2014-02-21 11:12:27 UTC
Sigras wrote:
because reinforce timers arent a thing? I mean seriously how much of a deterrent do you really think that extra HP is and how much do you think should be chalked up to the reinforce timers?



If you can smash through an RF timer in a single siege cycle with all of six dreads, do you really think it's going to deter anyone?
Sigras
Conglomo
#13 - 2014-02-21 11:28:01 UTC
How many entities do you suppose would be willing to commit 6 dreads who arent willing now to commit 16 dreads? Im guessing not many.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2014-02-21 11:42:37 UTC
Sigras wrote:
How many entities do you suppose would be willing to commit 6 dreads who arent willing now to commit 16 dreads? Im guessing not many.



Six is much easier to get hold of than sixteen. I would imagine pretty much anyone who's ever so much as looked at taking sov could scrape up six.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2014-02-21 12:13:47 UTC
Sigras wrote:
How many entities do you suppose would be willing to commit 6 dreads who arent willing now to commit 16 dreads? Im guessing not many.


The potential loss of 6 dreads when poking sov is a lot less deterring than the loss of 16. Moreover, with this change you would make it even harder for small entities to hold sov because it can be taken even easier than it is the case now. Roll

So, once again and as in every other "I am awesome and have THE solution to sov" thread: You have it wrong; activity based sov is the only solution. You may thank me later for correcting your foolishness believes. Cool

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#16 - 2014-02-21 14:14:44 UTC
Activity-based sov is not the solution.

The removal of formal sov at all is the solution.

You want de-facto sovereignty? Enforce it.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#17 - 2014-02-21 15:00:33 UTC
Removal of Sov? As in:


  • Outposts neutral and free to dock for everyone
  • All 00 is everyone's player's sov and if you want your secure sov you need to live in it
  • No sov structures, no upgrades, no benefits
  • Everyone can build structures in systems like they please


Something along these lines and more? Or do I have it wrong?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-02-21 15:32:27 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Would this not mean that if you had half a dozen dreads and a pile of harassment SBUs, you could RF an entire region in ~three hours?



If no one lives there to really defend it? YES. And it shoudl be like that.

You want the region? BE THERE TO DEFEND IT!



So any alliance that isn't huge, with a presence in every timezone, should not hold SOV, correct?



Wich alliance that is nOT huge even HOLD sov nowadays? NONE. They rent!

This change in fact woudl create more of smalelr groups since huge groups would not be able to defend HALF of new eden by themselves

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#19 - 2014-02-22 01:10:58 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Activity-based sov is not the solution.

The removal of formal sov at all is the solution.

You want de-facto sovereignty? Enforce it.


This is an interesting idea. Instead of having sovereignty of a system, what if all systems were unclaimable, sov was scrapped, but stations were still claimable. You fight to take stations, one RF timer, systems without stations are just free for alls, the "sov" belongs to whoever is occupying it.

Basically occupancy/activity based sov.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2014-02-22 01:30:04 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Would this not mean that if you had half a dozen dreads and a pile of harassment SBUs, you could RF an entire region in ~three hours?



If no one lives there to really defend it? YES. And it shoudl be like that.

You want the region? BE THERE TO DEFEND IT!



So any alliance that isn't huge, with a presence in every timezone, should not hold SOV, correct?



Wich alliance that is nOT huge even HOLD sov nowadays? NONE. They rent!

This change in fact woudl create more of smalelr groups since huge groups would not be able to defend HALF of new eden by themselves



Correction: The big guys would have the carriers to jump around and rep their stuff, the small guys who get everything they own RFed every day really wouldn't.
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