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EvE Passive income needs to be removed

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Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2014-02-20 15:31:37 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:
Money only has value because the people in control claim it does, real value comes from power.

So what you're saying is that the goons should be given access to the /spawn and /give commands so they can create items and ISK at will.


Goons don't control the game CCP is God, thus its up to god to decide who has power.


"As I have said so many times, God doesn't play dice with the world." Albert Einstein
flakeys
Doomheim
#122 - 2014-02-20 16:12:21 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
Passive income is terrible for EvE, it reduces the activity spent by players in game, removes social requirements for earning income, and creates power blocs whose sole purpose is to farm isk endlessly thus inflating the economy for players who choose to actively play the game to earn income. Passive isk generation turns EvE into a Ghost town, no longer are miners needed to strip belts and work as a group, now all you need are moon mining pos's and botters to supply your Alliance with income.




Wait are you REALLY taking mining as the opposite of passive income ? Shocked

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#123 - 2014-02-20 16:29:43 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:


Again power is what makes things valuable


No, it is not.
Basically, nothing is valuable. All values are subjective. It is like the beauty in the eye of the beerholder.
On a more practical and economic note: A use makes something valuable.
Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2014-02-20 16:36:08 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
Anyone who thinks fiat currency is sustainable is a shill, anyone who thinks a resource based economy would make a better game is smart. Anyone who doesn't know the universe is expanding faster than light should read more. - thread

btw one word replies don't make you intelligent, it makes you pseudo intellectual like steve jobs.

If you want legitimacy you have to post sources.


Can you even read? You have no clue about economy at all. You say you havent got any arguments about why you are wrong. I suggest reading page 1 and 2 (there you go, source given, a person as "smart" as you should be able to find page 1 and 2 of this thread) of this thread again... Its explained so even a child can understand it 4-5 times.

While you are right that the universe is expanding faster than light, I dont see how this makes you right about anything game related? You derailed your own thread so bad, and you have yet to understand even basic mechanics of how the economy works... I strongly suggest you follow your own advice and read the thread.
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#125 - 2014-02-20 16:39:18 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
None of you have anything to offer me intellectually it is like talking to children, I am growing tired of the lack of understanding of how economies and our universe works, it isn't even related to my original post in any manner. Every time someone attacks me they offer nothing substantial to back their claims, and most of you have a reading comprehension problem and mistake the meaning of my posts. I am done arguing with imbeciles.


hehe.

at least you're persistent.

A thousand people told me I'm wrong, but I did it anyway.

Guess what, on average, when there's no one agreeing with you, there might be a reason for that.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#126 - 2014-02-20 17:05:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
It's about derailing any form of rational discussion in GD

You know, trolling.
Like the OP you mean?

@ The OP, you're wrong about pretty much everything related to passive income. Your off topic ramblings however, are somewhat amusing, but pointless all the same.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2014-02-20 17:23:45 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
, real value comes from power.


Real value comes from desiring the property or the labour of others.
A currency is very helpful as a medium for exchange as a scented candle maker may value the products of my labour but no amount of scented candles would be acceptable as payment.
Currency allows the exchange of goods and services efficiently.
Eve currency is achieved through time and how efficiently that time is utilised in generating that currency. This is a sensible way of creating currency. It is destroyed via various cracks in the exchange process as well as direct distruction in exchange for npc goods and services.
Real world currencies are created and destroyed in a totally different manner. A tiny amount is created by central banks in a process that has gradually been removed from the hands of politicians because they can't be trusted with such tools. However most money creation occurs through new debt and is destroyed through the payment or default of debt. This power lies with bankers who no one trusts with such power and yet no one takes it away from them. Booms happen when they create too much money and recessions happen when they stop creating money and the money supply shrinks. Inflation happens because the the supply of money keeps growing ever larger and thus the individual units diminish in value.
This real world version is clearly inferior to the EVE version for many reasons but that is no reason to talk about reverting to a gold standard that is loved only by people with lots of gold.
This is also ofc an oversimplification but i wanted to let Tippia know that not all anarchists are entirely clueless about how this all works or think that removing money is a good idea. Anarchism is about removing positions of power and diffusing power amongst the population. (An- without and archon- a greek ruler. leads to without rulers.) How to make this work is where we all disagree though Shocked.
As an aside most of us are opposed to capitalism but entirely in favour of free enterprise.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#128 - 2014-02-20 17:27:29 UTC
You know what needs to be removed? General Discussion subforum.

Bacon makes us stronger
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#129 - 2014-02-20 17:45:18 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
CCP had an opening for a lead game designer, I applied to the job, but apparently I don't have the qualifications required


Judging by your posts in this thread, this is something for which people should thank their preferred deity.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Pew Terror
All of it
#130 - 2014-02-20 17:46:37 UTC
GRRR MOONS!!!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#131 - 2014-02-20 17:59:07 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:
CCP had an opening for a lead game designer, I applied to the job, but apparently I don't have the qualifications required


Judging by all of your posts in this thread ever, this is something for which people should thank their preferred deity.

FTFY

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#132 - 2014-02-20 18:00:40 UTC
Passive income is income for doing nothing active. I'm fine with it as it doesn't contribute to the massive currency devaluation that has happened since the introduction of the one thing that injects ISK directly into the system for real world money.

Way too much ISK is being generated from nothing with next to nothing removing it.

I remember when I made my first million how excited I was. Now a hundred billion is nothing for me. It's not because I'm doing anything different. It's because there is such an insane amount of ISK being generated from nothing that it is near worthless.

Mr Epeen Cool
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#133 - 2014-02-20 18:16:59 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:


Way too much ISK is being generated from nothing with next to nothing removing it.



Lots of people believe this but it turns out that nop, it aint true

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#134 - 2014-02-20 18:25:58 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:


Way too much ISK is being generated from nothing with next to nothing removing it.



Lots of people believe this but it turns out that nop, it aint true


If this game were truly currency balanced there would be exactly 5000 isk times the number of new accts that that have been created.

Then for each ISK created there would be a matching sink.

Does anyone with half a brain really believe that it is in any way the case?

Mr Epeen Cool
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#135 - 2014-02-20 18:35:08 UTC
Somehow, I don't think Mr. Epeen here is an economist.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#136 - 2014-02-20 18:54:54 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
If this game were truly currency balanced there would be exactly 5000 isk times the number of new accts that that have been created.

Then for each ISK created there would be a matching sink.
That wouldn't be a balanced game. That would be a static and severely constricted closed-circuit game. That would be insanely restrictive and also ridiculously brittle design.

Quote:
Does anyone with half a brain really believe that it is in any way the case?
Does anyone think it would be an even remotely good idea?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2014-02-20 18:58:50 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
You know what needs to be removed? General Discussion subforum. NPC alt posting abilities.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#138 - 2014-02-20 19:03:47 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:


Way too much ISK is being generated from nothing with next to nothing removing it.



Lots of people believe this but it turns out that nop, it aint true


If this game were truly currency balanced there would be exactly 5000 isk times the number of new accts that that have been created.

Then for each ISK created there would be a matching sink.

Does anyone with half a brain really believe that it is in any way the case?

Mr Epeen Cool


Who said anything about "perfect"?

In any case what you describe isn't "perfect balance" because ISK supply should increase to match the value of goods in game.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#139 - 2014-02-20 19:12:50 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:


Way too much ISK is being generated from nothing with next to nothing removing it.



Lots of people believe this but it turns out that nop, it aint true


If this game were truly currency balanced there would be exactly 5000 isk times the number of new accts that that have been created.

Then for each ISK created there would be a matching sink.

Does anyone with half a brain really believe that it is in any way the case?

Mr Epeen Cool


Who said anything about "perfect"?

In any case what you describe isn't "perfect balance" because ISK supply should increase to match the value of goods in game.


Please show in the text you quoted where the word perfect was used. Or even implied?

Is it possible for you people to not start a straw man every time you can't come up with an answer for something?

Mr Epeen Cool
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#140 - 2014-02-20 19:20:13 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Please show in the text you quoted where the word perfect was used. Or even implied?
“If this game were truly currency balanced there would be exactly 5000 isk times the number of new accts that that have been created.”