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Crime & Punishment

 
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The greatest scam of EVE online

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Danalee
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2014-02-20 14:01:08 UTC
Pete Butcher wrote:
Froggy Storm wrote:
This is excellent. While sitting in the hell camp Lyris explained just what the "Dunning Kruger" effect is. And here I get to see it applied.

Thanks.

Pure goblin.


Try not to shoot the messenger all the time... It's silly. Try tackling the message for once?
The Dunning Kruger effect label could just as easily be stamped on you, think about it (I know...);

Dunning and Kruger proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:
tend to overestimate their own level of skill; Check.
fail to recognize genuine skill in others; Check
fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy; Check
recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they are exposed to training for that skill; pending...

Has RVB been used as goon hisec muscle or not? Are the wars coincidence or not? Are they paid for it? Is it for good fights? Why be covert about all that? etc...

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#22 - 2014-02-20 14:05:54 UTC
Came expecting a wonderful story of a massive Eve Online scam.

Read a bunch of garbage about RVB supposedly scamming by having their guys shoot different targets than they signed up for.

Left feeling like I actually stopped on a street corner to listen to some drunk's story about black helicopters, aliens, etc.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-02-20 14:17:35 UTC
Danalee wrote:
[quote Butcher]
Froggy Storm wrote:
This is excellent. While sitting in the hell camp Lyris explained just what the "Dunning Kruger" effect is. And here I get to see it applied.

Thanks.

Pure goblin.


Try not to shoot the messenger all the time... It's silly. Try tackling the message for once?
The Dunning Kruger effect label could just as easily be stamped on you, think about it (I know...);

Dunning and Kruger proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:
tend to overestimate their own level of skill; Check.
fail to recognize genuine skill in others; Check
fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy; Check
recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they are exposed to training for that skill; pending...

Has RVB been used as goon hisec muscle or not? Are the wars coincidence or not? Are they paid for it? Is it for good fights? Why be covert about all that? etc...

D.

Bear[/quote]
I never seriously claim superiority, nor classify people into ladder placing myself on top, so you pretty much missed the mark. The reason I came to these threads is because I detest such people, which Gevlon is a prime example of. If he was being sarcastic/ironic, fine, but he is all serious.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool
Danalee
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-02-20 14:24:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
Pete Butcher wrote:
I never seriously claim superiority, nor classify people into ladder placing myself on top, so you pretty much missed the mark. The reason I came to these threads is because I detest such people, which Gevlon is a prime example of. If he was being sarcastic/ironic, fine, but he is all serious. .


Ok, so you say you never seriously claim superiority, nor classify people into a ladder placing yourself on top, followed by claiming you are superior to mister Goblin because you know he is not ironic anywhere...
Meanwhile ignoring the facts presented, prefering to keep shooting the messenger from your selfmade position of superiority (you detest people like him).

Got it.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-02-20 14:26:47 UTC
This thread sucks.

Goblin, even if your correct, and RVB are some massive goon puppet entity... who cares? And furthermore, the idea of it being some type of "scam" unto its own membership is just silly. TMK they dont pay to join RVB, and most of their pilots just wanna shoot something and have fun. Im not seeing where the "scam" part is.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Danalee
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-02-20 14:42:02 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
This thread sucks.

Goblin, even if your correct, and RVB are some massive goon puppet entity... who cares? And furthermore, the idea of it being some type of "scam" unto its own membership is just silly. TMK they dont pay to join RVB, and most of their pilots just wanna shoot something and have fun. Im not seeing where the "scam" part is.


If it proves true, which at the moment, given the data (and the fact nobody cares to claim otherwise, instead shooting the messenger ad nauseum) it is, than the scam is where newbies are lured into a fun wargame group under false pretenses and promptly brainwashed into goon hisec sock-puppets and thrown under the bus.

Would all RVB members be in RVB if they knew they were just goon hisec cannon fodder?

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#27 - 2014-02-20 14:57:54 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
This thread sucks.

Goblin, even if your correct, and RVB are some massive goon puppet entity... who cares? And furthermore, the idea of it being some type of "scam" unto its own membership is just silly. TMK they dont pay to join RVB, and most of their pilots just wanna shoot something and have fun. Im not seeing where the "scam" part is.


If it proves true, which at the moment, given the data (and the fact nobody cares to claim otherwise, instead shooting the messenger ad nauseum) it is, than the scam is where newbies are lured into a fun wargame group under false pretenses and promptly brainwashed into goon hisec sock-puppets and thrown under the bus.

Would all RVB members be in RVB if they knew they were just goon hisec cannon fodder?
Actually, plenty of people have been claiming this as not true, from the start. On his forum, I've even presented reasoning why and where to go to look up stats to support it. The thing is Gevlon has no interest in fact. Like most conspiracy theorists, he has a preconceived conclusion and is blind to any data that does not support it. Like for example RvB venturing into goon space to kill goons. He also refuses to acknowledge that if his reasoning were followed, then many other groups would also be "pets". PL, BL and even TEST have had cooperative dealings with goons.

As for his reasoning, it's clear. He's trying to come up with a reason why his enemies should just disband. I mean just read his posts. Last week it was trying to tell us CFC how we're being used by the evil goon rat squad. Now that he's realised that we're a tight knit group and we actually know each other, he's trying to pick RvB. Next week when RvB line members have dismissed all this nonsense posting, he'll find something else he can try to claim as a reason to split up. It's actually quite sad that he feels so strongly about it that he needs to spend all of his time copying out scraps of data to do this kind of thing.

With the "attacks", since he prides himself on calling everyone he's against a moron, he should be able to take the same in return, especially when his posting degrades to this level. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Danalee
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2014-02-20 15:04:11 UTC
Ok Lucas, can you present said stats here, please?
I'm talking about stats that dismis the following;

Can you see the running theme here? Except for self defense wars, E-UNI and Brave Newbies war and dummy wars without actual fighting, every single war of Blue Republic was in defense of Goonswarm Federation. Red is doing the same of course, since they join wars together.

If not... Is there another explenation for this than goons using RVB as hisec cannonfodder for quite some time?
That's all I want to see straight.

For the rest, there are indeed many things that could be seen as propaganda, assumptions and personal opinions in the blog and threads but I prefer not to dig into those too much. That area is covered quite good already Big smile

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-02-20 15:04:19 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Pete Butcher wrote:
I never seriously claim superiority, nor classify people into ladder placing myself on top, so you pretty much missed the mark. The reason I came to these threads is because I detest such people, which Gevlon is a prime example of. If he was being sarcastic/ironic, fine, but he is all serious. .


Ok, so you say you never seriously claim superiority, nor classify people into a ladder placing yourself on top, followed by claiming you are superior to mister Goblin because you know he is not ironic anywhere...
Meanwhile ignoring the facts presented, prefering to keep shooting the messenger from your selfmade position of superiority (you detest people like him).

Got it.

D.

Bear

If this is a troll attempt, I won't fall for it. If not, putting words into someone's mouth is a sign of weakness in arguments.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool
Danalee
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-02-20 15:07:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
^^ What?

Who put these words in your mouth?
Pete Butcher wrote:

The reason I came to these threads is because I detest such people, which Gevlon is a prime example of. If he was being sarcastic/ironic, fine, but he is all serious.


D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-02-20 15:13:47 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
This thread sucks.

Goblin, even if your correct, and RVB are some massive goon puppet entity... who cares? And furthermore, the idea of it being some type of "scam" unto its own membership is just silly. TMK they dont pay to join RVB, and most of their pilots just wanna shoot something and have fun. Im not seeing where the "scam" part is.


Let me simplify why is it a scam:
what RvB offers
The truth

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-02-20 15:17:47 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
This thread sucks.

Goblin, even if your correct, and RVB are some massive goon puppet entity... who cares? And furthermore, the idea of it being some type of "scam" unto its own membership is just silly. TMK they dont pay to join RVB, and most of their pilots just wanna shoot something and have fun. Im not seeing where the "scam" part is.


If it proves true, which at the moment, given the data (and the fact nobody cares to claim otherwise, instead shooting the messenger ad nauseum) it is, than the scam is where newbies are lured into a fun wargame group under false pretenses and promptly brainwashed into goon hisec sock-puppets and thrown under the bus.

Would all RVB members be in RVB if they knew they were just goon hisec cannon fodder?

D.

Bear


Honestly, I wouldnt think they would care. If I were to join an organization with the purpose of blowing up ships and having my ship blown up along with them, politics for some faraway nullsec empire would not concern me. Id still be getting the fights.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
The Groundskeeper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-02-20 15:18:16 UTC
Buzz buzz imma goony puppetmasta
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#34 - 2014-02-20 15:19:34 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Ok Lucas, can you present said stats here, please?
I'm talking about stats that dismis the following;

Can you see the running theme here? Except for self defense wars, E-UNI and Brave Newbies war and dummy wars without actual fighting, every single war of Blue Republic was in defense of Goonswarm Federation. Red is doing the same of course, since they join wars together.

If not... Is there another explenation for this than goons using RVB as hisec cannonfodder for quite some time?
That's all I want to see straight.

For the rest, there are indeed many things that could be seen as propaganda, assumptions and personal opinions in the blog and threads but I prefer not to dig into those too much. That area is covered quite good already Big smile
I'm not at home so I can;t log on and look at wartime stats. But I'd question how much war stats alone describes the activities of the alliance. If they roam in low or null, which we know they do, then they wouldn't declare war.

I don't suppose there are many groups in high sec that RvB would really want to declare war on specifically. Most are either small corps or alliances, not worth the time or wardec alliances that will inevitably wardec them at some point down the line. I do however know that goons and RvB have had dealings in the past, in much the same way that goons have had dealings with many other alliances. CSM members are in leadership positions in both alliances, so there's no surprise that communication and diplomacy occurs. But going from that to "they are pets" is a pretty massive leap with.

It's like if I flipped a normal coin twice and it was heads both times, I could take that limited information and claim quite rightly that the coin will always be heads when I flip it. I could then further claim that all coins of the same type would behave in the same way, thus they would always be heads. Nothing in that is fundamentally wrong, and the data supports my conclusion, but it's obviously incorrect.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-02-20 15:20:01 UTC
Danalee wrote:
^^ What?

Who put these words in your mouth?
Pete Butcher wrote:

The reason I came to these threads is because I detest such people, which Gevlon is a prime example of. If he was being sarcastic/ironic, fine, but he is all serious.


D.

Bear


Maybe it's because English is not my native language or something, but detest=dislike, not claiming superiority.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool
Powers Sa
#36 - 2014-02-20 15:22:05 UTC
Nobody cares, gevlon. You haven't taken any pocos yet. Quit trying to build a false narrative to cover up your ineptitude.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
flakeys
Doomheim
#37 - 2014-02-20 15:22:26 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
In before Gevlon meltdown... oh wait, 52 minutes too late.


Make that a year at least too late ...

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Samahiel Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-02-20 15:23:35 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Mr Goblin, you have been exposed as a Goon spy!


I've often heard it said, "If Gevlon Goblin didn't exist, we would have to invent him." He really is one of the better sources of humor and entertainment in high sec.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#39 - 2014-02-20 15:24:18 UTC
Pete Butcher wrote:
Danalee wrote:
^^ What?

Who put these words in your mouth?
Pete Butcher wrote:

The reason I came to these threads is because I detest such people, which Gevlon is a prime example of. If he was being sarcastic/ironic, fine, but he is all serious.


Maybe it's because English is not my native language or something, but detest=dislike, not claiming superiority.
As an Englishman (from England and everything!), I claim rights to that language and can confirm that detesting and/or disliking someone is in no way claiming superiority. It is in fact possible to detest/dislike someone that is superior, sometimes even because they are superior.

In this case it's more likely to be because Gevlon is a moronic tit, and Pete is in all likelihood superior. But that's beside the point.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-02-20 15:25:54 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
This thread sucks.

Goblin, even if your correct, and RVB are some massive goon puppet entity... who cares? And furthermore, the idea of it being some type of "scam" unto its own membership is just silly. TMK they dont pay to join RVB, and most of their pilots just wanna shoot something and have fun. Im not seeing where the "scam" part is.


If it proves true, which at the moment, given the data (and the fact nobody cares to claim otherwise, instead shooting the messenger ad nauseum) it is, than the scam is where newbies are lured into a fun wargame group under false pretenses and promptly brainwashed into goon hisec sock-puppets and thrown under the bus.

Would all RVB members be in RVB if they knew they were just goon hisec cannon fodder?

D.

Bear

must...resist...mustn't agree with Danalee...mustn't...

Quoted as fair comment & question.

F#ck.

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