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NDAs, Minutes, and Mittens
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Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-09-10 19:52:38 UTC
The Mittani wrote:


CSM6 hasn't even discussed ABC in low-class wormholes since May. We do not really care. Most of the 'discussion' is from folks who misinterpret what was said and freak out about it.

CSM6 has a general rule where the people who have experience with a topic are front-and-center on that topic. The guys with w-space experience handle wormholes (Two Step, Meissa and Trebor). The guys with null experience handle null stuff. Unless the w-space CSMs begin spearheading a w-space mineral nerf, it doesn't really matter what my opinions on w-space are. I could truly believe that w-space is inhabited by fuzzy pink bunnies and it wouldn't matter.

As an aside, I'd highly recommend that w-space folks vote for Two Step next election. He has a mastery of the topic and busts his ass on the CSM, he really shouldn't be exiled to 4th alt. Come the campaign I'll be plugging for him.


Lets see, I should vote for Two Step because....because....beca......yeah nothing is coming to mind. I can respect that he has w-space experience. I too have null space experience. No, I've never lived there but I have been there. So, I guess that qualifies me to cast judgments about what should be in null.

Two Step doesn't represent w-space's best interests. If he did, the glaring misrepresentations of ABC in w-space as presented would have been squashed before the CSM/CCP outlined the misguided reasons for such re-consideration.

Sorry, Two Step has your stink all over him and I mean that is the most vulgar of senses.

Don't ban me, bro!
CAPTIAN NDA
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-09-10 19:56:04 UTC
One of the csm has to be bursting at the seems to tell us something my question is did they read the nda and look for loop holes?
Khira Kitamatsu
#23 - 2011-09-10 19:56:22 UTC
As is usual CSM seem to only be interested in their part of the game. The rest of us scrubs need not bother.

Ponies!  We need more ponies!
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-09-10 20:08:32 UTC
CAPTIAN NDA wrote:
One of the csm has to be bursting at the seems to tell us something my question is did they read the nda and look for loop holes?


The NDA is very vague and has a comically broad scope. But it doesn't matter what the 'rules' are, because in practice CCP can just choose by fiat to declare something NDA and it's not like we have any recourse. What are we going to do exactly, spend tens of thousands of dollars in international litigation, and meanwhile CCP finds a pretext to ban the litigants?

"Hurr break the NDA hurr" is the kind of tactic recommended by children who have no conception of either how the law works in practice or how politics works in practice.

Even /if/ you could litigate over a loophole after its abuse, the mere abuse of a loophole utterly cuts you off from dialogue with CCP, removing any power from the CSM (which is all based on communication, persuasion, and the odd bit of media spit-roasting).

~hi~
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-09-10 20:15:19 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
As is usual CSM seem to only be interested in their part of the game. The rest of us scrubs need not bother.


The CSM is not about making your game better, it is about making the game better.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Khira Kitamatsu
#26 - 2011-09-10 20:17:46 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
As is usual CSM seem to only be interested in their part of the game. The rest of us scrubs need not bother.


The CSM is not about making your game better, it is about making their game better.


Fixed it for you. :)

Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-09-10 20:31:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mortimer Civeri
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
As is usual CSM seem to only be interested in their part of the game. The rest of us scrubs need not bother.


The CSM is not about making your game better, it is about making their game better.


Fixed it for you. :)


Their game will be a hell of a lot more fun to play, than your game.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#28 - 2011-09-10 20:33:18 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
There is a self-esteem issue in Iceland. Icelandic men want to be men. They want to be vikings. They want to be taken seriously on the world's stage. Thus, their bravado and over-confidence in international banking


Wrong on so many levels, but the discussion has moved away from all that now, and i won't derail the thread.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-09-10 22:20:29 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
As an aside, I'd highly recommend that w-space folks vote for Two Step next election. He has a mastery of the topic and busts his ass on the CSM, he really shouldn't be exiled to 4th alt. Come the campaign I'll be plugging for him.
I will definitely keep that in mind and listen intently to what he has to say come CSM7 election time.

Side thought, considering what a pain in the ass the CSM has been for CCP this year, is there any possibility that CSM6 is the last, that the project/experiment is cancelled?
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2011-09-11 00:30:40 UTC
Poetic Stanziel your blog is horrible. Shut it down before you bring further shame to your parents.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-09-11 02:20:45 UTC
Ladie Scarlet wrote:
Shut it down before you bring further shame to your parents.

My parents are dead, you heartless cad!!!
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2011-09-11 03:05:04 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
As an aside, I'd highly recommend that w-space folks vote for Two Step next election. He has a mastery of the topic and busts his ass on the CSM, he really shouldn't be exiled to 4th alt. Come the campaign I'll be plugging for him.
I will definitely keep that in mind and listen intently to what he has to say come CSM7 election time.

Side thought, considering what a pain in the ass the CSM has been for CCP this year, is there any possibility that CSM6 is the last, that the project/experiment is cancelled?


I would be surprised. Nominally, according to Hilmar, the CSM is here to 'call bullshit' on CCP. If we fulfill that task and then get shut down, 'heh'.

~hi~
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2011-09-11 03:18:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
The Mittani wrote:
No, 'expending political capital' does not come from merely talking. Even the most politically-deaf spreadsheet-worshipping sperg-nerd should be able to understand that. Political capital is expended then you cut deals, or when you repeatedly persuade someone about a point, or when you put pressure on someone.

Not merely, of course not. But yapping about something you want to see changed often enough, even under the guise of not really caring about it, is an attempt to change opinions to your way of thinking. And the ultimate goal of course, for someone representing 0.0, is to make 0.0 real estate more valuable.

And as someone representing 0.0, I can understand wanting 0.0 to have more value than it might already have in game. But my thinking is that it shouldn't come at the expense of other viable areas of the game. 0.0 is not the only area of the game in which ti play. And trying to force people to play there will simply mean that people will quit the game.

The economics in this game are reasonably stable, and don't need much tinkering with.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2011-09-11 06:50:46 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
And as someone representing 0.0, I can understand wanting 0.0 to have more value than it might already have in game. But my thinking is that it shouldn't come at the expense of other viable areas of the game.

Sure it should. As much as those of us in nullsec like shooting at each other we like the howls of empire carebears even more. It is far too easy to make a lot of money in empire with zero risk...that ability to make money needs to be nerfed and nerfed hard.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Princess Cellestia
Friendship is Podding
#35 - 2011-09-11 13:03:42 UTC
As someone who will be directly affected by any change to capitals or super capitals (producer) I'd love to know wtf is actually going to happen come winter, hell even a vague detail would be nice. But as it was said, if I heard the super nerf was going to be almost nothing, I would keep calm and carry on, but if it's going to be something horrible I'd start dumping bpos and towers while I could still make a buck. Same with the ice thing, because if ice is pulled from high sec, I'd have to buy a years worth of fuel, because only a moron would actually mine anything in null sec. This is what the NDA is all about, keeping things on a level playing field. Because really I'd love to get the info now rather than scramble around trying to take care of stuff if and when something changes. But for now, all we can do is pray and wait. And hope CCP gets their heads out of their asses.
Riggs Droput
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2011-09-11 14:00:51 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
No, 'expending political capital' does not come from merely talking. Even the most politically-deaf spreadsheet-worshipping sperg-nerd should be able to understand that. Political capital is expended then you cut deals, or when you repeatedly persuade someone about a point, or when you put pressure on someone.

Not merely, of course not. But yapping about something you want to see changed often enough, even under the guise of not really caring about it, is an attempt to change opinions to your way of thinking. And the ultimate goal of course, for someone representing 0.0, is to make 0.0 real estate more valuable.

And as someone representing 0.0, I can understand wanting 0.0 to have more value than it might already have in game. But my thinking is that it shouldn't come at the expense of other viable areas of the game. 0.0 is not the only area of the game in which ti play. And trying to force people to play there will simply mean that people will quit the game.

The economics in this game are reasonably stable, and don't need much tinkering with.


Again its the whole risk vs reward. There is very little risk running mission's or mining in hi-sec. I don't advocate nerfing hi-sec missions or mining but what is the point of going to Null/low if you are going to make less Isk then in high sec.

I don't see CCP taking out lvl4 agents in hi-sec and forcing people into low and null. What I do see is that CCP might change loot tables on hi-sec mission ratts, and move or add some agents into null and low sec but boost the LP/Isk reward when working from these agents. That way if you risk more you make more, but your perfectly fine to keep running your missions in Hi-Sec.

If there was a 25-50% boost in mission rewards in low/null sec over hi-sec you would start to see people move out there on their own just due to the extra isk that you could generate. This way you are not forcing players to goto Null but if they do they will make more bank.

You should also be able to make more isk in W-space then in hi-sec due to the nature (I'm pretty sure W-space players usually have a good bank roll)

Riggs

I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2011-09-11 14:11:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Riggs Droput wrote:
If there was a 25-50% boost in mission rewards in low/null sec over hi-sec you would start to see people move out there on their own just due to the extra isk that you could generate. This way you are not forcing players to goto Null but if they do they will make more bank.

You already get ~50% higher rewards in 0.0 than in 0.5

I would characterize PvE in 0.0 not as "high risk" but as more costly in terms of initial investment (placing a huge alliance around you to protect you P).
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-09-11 19:15:45 UTC
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
I would characterize PvE in 0.0 not as "high risk" but as more costly in terms of initial investment (placing a huge alliance around you to protect you P).

Mining and missioning deep within your own sov space is some of the safest mining and missioning around. Safer than highsec, even, unless your alliance mates take to ganking each other.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#39 - 2011-09-12 05:25:14 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
I would characterize PvE in 0.0 not as "high risk" but as more costly in terms of initial investment (placing a huge alliance around you to protect you P).

Mining and missioning deep within your own sov space is some of the safest mining and missioning around. Safer than highsec, even, unless your alliance mates take to ganking each other.


nobody mines in 0.0 lol

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Levarris Hawk
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2011-09-12 05:28:20 UTC
Andski wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
I would characterize PvE in 0.0 not as "high risk" but as more costly in terms of initial investment (placing a huge alliance around you to protect you P).

Mining and missioning deep within your own sov space is some of the safest mining and missioning around. Safer than highsec, even, unless your alliance mates take to ganking each other.


nobody mines in 0.0 lol


Your right, only bots in DRF land mine.
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