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Battlecruiser and Battleship Buff

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Kane Fenris
NWP
#61 - 2014-02-19 00:31:24 UTC
i agree bs could take a bit more beef on the rips but you sugestion is over the top

and for the point of solo play,,, that cant be fixed over ehp
solo was nerfed by lots of tiny changes
but the bigest nerf solo took was the balanceing of ships solo vessels need to be "OP" in the sense of the ship has to be stronger than average cause you need to match several people at once.
but most viable solo vessels still had to be piloted good .

whyt this game needs is vessels that are stronger than most of the other ships in its class range but not stronger than em when flown in numbers.
here kicks the gameplay in current gameplay doesnt allow this sort of ship to exist....
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2014-02-19 00:44:56 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Actually Prince of Wales remained out of range and shadowed them until another ship could take over, and Hood took a lucky hit (Amazing how often that happened against BS/BC's). The armour plan for Hood should have been OK at the range of engagement. They did slow down the Bismarck/Prinz Eugen fleet long enough for the Ark Royals teeny tiny biplanes to hit with torpedoes...

No. From what I recall the Bismarck and Prinz Eugen were shadowed by two cruisers which remained out of range. The Hood and Prince of Wales engaged the Bismarck and Prinz Eugen. The Hood was sunk, the Prince of Wales was so damaged that it had to withdraw.

Bismarck then lost the shadowing cruisers somehow, can't remember exactly. There was a huge search and she was spotted heading in the direction of France and sunk.


Prince of Wales withdrew when all of her guns malfunctioned throughout the engagement, she was rushed out without shakedown cruise as Britain was desperate to stop the Bismarck breaking out. She followed the cruisers who were attempting to locate Bismarck.

Ironically it was a shot from Prince of Wales that ultimately killed Bismarck, the shell killed one of the generators and flooded some of the fuel storage slowing Bismarck enough to ultimately be caught...maybe Eve isn't so far out after all :D
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2014-02-19 01:11:41 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Actually Prince of Wales remained out of range and shadowed them until another ship could take over, and Hood took a lucky hit (Amazing how often that happened against BS/BC's). The armour plan for Hood should have been OK at the range of engagement. They did slow down the Bismarck/Prinz Eugen fleet long enough for the Ark Royals teeny tiny biplanes to hit with torpedoes...

No. From what I recall the Bismarck and Prinz Eugen were shadowed by two cruisers which remained out of range. The Hood and Prince of Wales engaged the Bismarck and Prinz Eugen. The Hood was sunk, the Prince of Wales was so damaged that it had to withdraw.

Bismarck then lost the shadowing cruisers somehow, can't remember exactly. There was a huge search and she was spotted heading in the direction of France and sunk.


Prince of Wales withdrew when all of her guns malfunctioned throughout the engagement, she was rushed out without shakedown cruise as Britain was desperate to stop the Bismarck breaking out. She followed the cruisers who were attempting to locate Bismarck.

Ironically it was a shot from Prince of Wales that ultimately killed Bismarck, the shell killed one of the generators and flooded some of the fuel storage slowing Bismarck enough to ultimately be caught...maybe Eve isn't so far out after all :D

Yeah that sounds familiar. Don't recall the exact details tbh.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Throktar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#64 - 2014-02-19 01:14:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Throktar
I would like a few more ehp's on BS hulls, not a ton, but more than they have now.

I have always wanted CCP to design a BS hull that has dual weapon platforms. A T2 BS that has 4 slots for large guns and 4 slots for small missiles. (Opposite for missile ships)

Something like this...

T2 BS Hull Amarr

100% bonus to Large energy turret, Small missile, and Rocket damage.

5% bonus to large energy turret damage and tracking per level

5% bonus to small missile and rocket damage and flight time

Drone bandwidth 10

I would always make the secondary system the opposite type of the main racial weapons platform. Gives a great reason for cross training the weapon systems and brings a new diversity to the large hulls.

This also feels more realistic to me for a BS... can take on the big and little stuff at the same time. A ship that is lined with multiple weapon systems, just as any ship would be.

I know you will say "that is what drones are for" and I agree they do their job, but my idea comes with its pro's and con's.

Pro's: You can't destroy the missile launchers on the ship like drones in space, won't lose your missiles if you have to warp away quick, and they would do more damage to small targets.

Con's: Drones have a much greater range, different drone sizes can be used for different ships, and drones do not take up cargo space.


Tel me what you think
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2014-02-19 01:24:27 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
i agree bs could take a bit more beef on the rips but you sugestion is over the top

and for the point of solo play,,, that cant be fixed over ehp
solo was nerfed by lots of tiny changes
but the bigest nerf solo took was the balanceing of ships solo vessels need to be "OP" in the sense of the ship has to be stronger than average cause you need to match several people at once.
but most viable solo vessels still had to be piloted good .

whyt this game needs is vessels that are stronger than most of the other ships in its class range but not stronger than em when flown in numbers.
here kicks the gameplay in current gameplay doesnt allow this sort of ship to exist....

Personally the main issue I have with solo battleship is scan res. to solo in null with them you have to have a cloak, they get scanned too easily and with interceptors and the warp nerf it's impossible to disengage without one. Sticking a cloak on is not viable though when it takes your scan res down to 70mm. Along with mandatory 9.5 second delay after decloak you just cannot engage anything that doesn't want to be engaged, pretty much anything other than a gank or bait.

With a mega's 4 slots, giving up your cap booster is the only option but that's still not enough scan res at 118 mm..

I think what people fail to realise is yes you can team up with a tackler but then you're dependent on someone else and what ceptor is going to want to roam around with a ship that warps at 2au per second.

And at the end of the day, a battleship solo even with a 200mm scan res is still going to be very difficult to kill stuff in. The way people are behaving you would think they believe slight buffs would somehow turn BS into uber solo killing machines but that role will still be firmly held by T3s, BLOP's gangs and nitty gangs.

BS would still die horribly but you might get a couple of kills before that happens.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#66 - 2014-02-19 02:29:12 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
And at the end of the day, a battleship solo even with a 200mm scan res is still going to be very difficult to kill stuff in. The way people are behaving you would think they believe slight buffs would somehow turn BS into uber solo killing machines but that role will still be firmly held by T3s, BLOP's gangs and nitty gangs.

BS would still die horribly but you might get a couple of kills before that happens.




problem is not the soloists, its the fact that which helps a solo player helps a gang/roam/fleet as well, if not more so.


Fix your BS scan res for example. Good for the soloist, better for the gang. As they may run remote sebo to enhance it even more. Or they have cap logi so power hungry boats can sebo and fall back on cap transfer. Or mix them all up.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2014-02-19 02:57:59 UTC
Infinity.... you're an idiot.


THIS char is NOT a BS char by intent, but has been trained into them by necessity. A clear look at this char's KB indicates it's a logi/leadership char..... But There is no way I could have alts... and there is no way Suddenly aren't known for Faction BS fleets... and there is no way we very, very rarely lose them......



Log in, contract me your stuff, then log out and uninstall.

Zan Shiro brings up a very good point. The 'little' tweaks you suggest for the soloist multiply WAY beyond little when fleet mechanics are introduced. BS really aren't designed for solo work.



And another point: You can fly a ship til you're blue in the face. That doesn't make you knowledgeable about it, or an expert. It just means you spend more time in it than other ship classes. It doesn't mean you learn anything.



The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2014-02-19 03:11:00 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
And at the end of the day, a battleship solo even with a 200mm scan res is still going to be very difficult to kill stuff in. The way people are behaving you would think they believe slight buffs would somehow turn BS into uber solo killing machines but that role will still be firmly held by T3s, BLOP's gangs and nitty gangs.

BS would still die horribly but you might get a couple of kills before that happens.




problem is not the soloists, its the fact that which helps a solo player helps a gang/roam/fleet as well, if not more so.


Fix your BS scan res for example. Good for the soloist, better for the gang. As they may run remote sebo to enhance it even more. Or they have cap logi so power hungry boats can sebo and fall back on cap transfer. Or mix them all up.


Additional 80mm scan res is insignificant to a linked gang, there's a soft cap on scan resolution which is easily reached with remote sebo and links, at which point additional resolution hits the server tick limit and latency limit. On the other hand small gang and solo pilots would benefit from it a lot.




CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#69 - 2014-02-19 06:35:31 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
larger plates would be a big help to the tempest, but a seriously massive help to armour scorps. ones kinda good, the others really kinda scary good.

and if theres a 3200mm plate, ppl will want an x-large shield extender. would that make shield tanking things like a cane and vindi scary strong?



Well when I suggested the BS sized mods, I was kinda figuring they would be demanding enough to be unfittable for BCs and below (unless they gimp their fits like some do with 100mn ABs/MWDs)

If anything else it would in some cases give the BS a free med or low slot (1 3200mm/XLExtender rather than 2 1600mm/LSEs)
Which then, SeBos, TEs and other support mods become "easier" to fit.
I often find that more fits could gain so much more by gaining 1 low or med slot than if they had +1000 more PG or CPU. Its stuff like this is why no matter what, the rattler sports the strongest passive tank in the game short of caps (who passive tanks caps. And the Scorp with its 8 meds, can easily become a great baitship (LOL Scorp have no defense.... WHY THOSE SHIELD SO STRONG)

Also another thing, sicne IZ is very held up on the scanrez....

Well we have Reactor Control mods to boost your PG by a % value.
But for Frigates/Dessys there are Aux Reactor Cores, that boost the PG by a set value.

Do something similiar.
We've got SeBos+scripts that give a higher scanrez by %
Add another mod that works just like a SeBo+script. But adds ~50mm (+meta levels changes) and maybe give it a ~2 (+ meta levels) to your sensor strength. Then you can script it either way, 50% MORE base ScanRez, or 50% more base Sensor Strength. Note that these bonuses would be susceptible to stacking penalties, but they woudl be applied first as though they were part of your ships base stats.

With regards to what it woudl to to ships.
A Cane would see with a meta 1...
220mm scanrez would move to a 270mm, 295mm with script
If with an unscripted Sebo, it would be getting 275, with scripted sebo 330
Sensor strength
16 point base woudl move to a 18, 19 scripted (not much, but every bit helps) With proper ECCM, it basically doubles to 27-28

A Rokh on the other hand.
75mm scanrez would move to 125mm/150mm scripted
Sebo would see 93mm/112.5 scripted
This is ofcourse before skills


THERE a mod that helps the big ships, it can help the little ships. And is rather situational and wouldn't scale well for large fleets. Ofcourse people continue by arguing differing stats for the mod if you would.


Call it "Auxiliary Targeting System" or something silly like that
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2014-02-19 09:46:42 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
i agree bs could take a bit more beef on the rips but you sugestion is over the top

and for the point of solo play,,, that cant be fixed over ehp
solo was nerfed by lots of tiny changes
but the bigest nerf solo took was the balanceing of ships solo vessels need to be "OP" in the sense of the ship has to be stronger than average cause you need to match several people at once.
but most viable solo vessels still had to be piloted good .

whyt this game needs is vessels that are stronger than most of the other ships in its class range but not stronger than em when flown in numbers.
here kicks the gameplay in current gameplay doesnt allow this sort of ship to exist....


This already exists. Any of the hulls that have a self repair bonus fall into this category.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2014-02-19 09:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Linkxsc162534 wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
larger plates would be a big help to the tempest, but a seriously massive help to armour scorps. ones kinda good, the others really kinda scary good.

and if theres a 3200mm plate, ppl will want an x-large shield extender. would that make shield tanking things like a cane and vindi scary strong?



Well when I suggested the BS sized mods, I was kinda figuring they would be demanding enough to be unfittable for BCs and below (unless they gimp their fits like some do with 100mn ABs/MWDs)

If anything else it would in some cases give the BS a free med or low slot (1 3200mm/XLExtender rather than 2 1600mm/LSEs)
Which then, SeBos, TEs and other support mods become "easier" to fit.
I often find that more fits could gain so much more by gaining 1 low or med slot than if they had +1000 more PG or CPU. Its stuff like this is why no matter what, the rattler sports the strongest passive tank in the game short of caps (who passive tanks caps. And the Scorp with its 8 meds, can easily become a great baitship (LOL Scorp have no defense.... WHY THOSE SHIELD SO STRONG)

Also another thing, sicne IZ is very held up on the scanrez....

Well we have Reactor Control mods to boost your PG by a % value.
But for Frigates/Dessys there are Aux Reactor Cores, that boost the PG by a set value.

Do something similiar.
We've got SeBos+scripts that give a higher scanrez by %
Add another mod that works just like a SeBo+script. But adds ~50mm (+meta levels changes) and maybe give it a ~2 (+ meta levels) to your sensor strength. Then you can script it either way, 50% MORE base ScanRez, or 50% more base Sensor Strength. Note that these bonuses would be susceptible to stacking penalties, but they woudl be applied first as though they were part of your ships base stats.

With regards to what it woudl to to ships.
A Cane would see with a meta 1...
220mm scanrez would move to a 270mm, 295mm with script
If with an unscripted Sebo, it would be getting 275, with scripted sebo 330
Sensor strength
16 point base woudl move to a 18, 19 scripted (not much, but every bit helps) With proper ECCM, it basically doubles to 27-28

A Rokh on the other hand.
75mm scanrez would move to 125mm/150mm scripted
Sebo would see 93mm/112.5 scripted
This is ofcourse before skills


THERE a mod that helps the big ships, it can help the little ships. And is rather situational and wouldn't scale well for large fleets. Ofcourse people continue by arguing differing stats for the mod if you would.


Call it "Auxiliary Targeting System" or something silly like that


I'd prefer they just gave a set increase to sensor boosters. At 250mm you get a 150mm boost from a sensor booster and script. At 70mm you get a 50mm boost so to get the same boost as a BC you need to fit 3 sensor boosters on a battleship which is impractical. Doesn't make a great deal of sense at lower scan resolutions.

Either that or a minimum scan res, giving a battleship the scan res of a dreadnaught because you fit a cloak, taking up 1 high slot and requiring a 10 second recal after you lock is a bit of overkill.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2014-02-19 09:48:55 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Increase Battlecruiser hull, armor and shield strength to battleship equivalent.
Increase Battleship hull, armor and shield strength by a factor of 2-4x.

These classes will now be able to roam solo as well as provide a more substantial counter to capitals.


While I agree that battleships need to be a tad more powerful... your proposal is way out of anys ense. Something like a 15% would be on the range needed, with possibly a tiny bit more dps.


4 times more EHP wil NOT enable battleshisp to roam solo and would just shake th metagame too much. Alpha strike would become irrelevant and dominix would get even more dominant position.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2014-02-19 09:51:44 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
and the bismark was beaten by an aircraft that put a torpedo into its rudder...



Beaten no.. crippled. That enabled it to be hunted by 2 RN battleships that fired ont he bismark for 120 minutes at poitn blank ( a mistake since RN did not know the bismark internal armor layout that was a double layer of armor with first layer designed to reorient the projectiles arriving at flat angle, as they arrive at poitn blank fights to hit the seocnd plat at 63 degree causing a sure deflection of the projectiles that would go out on the outer part of the upper deck.. .without harming the important parts of the ship).. unable to sink it.. until their officers detonated internal charges to avoid capture.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2014-02-19 09:52:15 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Linkxsc162534 wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
larger plates would be a big help to the tempest, but a seriously massive help to armour scorps. ones kinda good, the others really kinda scary good.

and if theres a 3200mm plate, ppl will want an x-large shield extender. would that make shield tanking things like a cane and vindi scary strong?



Well when I suggested the BS sized mods, I was kinda figuring they would be demanding enough to be unfittable for BCs and below (unless they gimp their fits like some do with 100mn ABs/MWDs)

If anything else it would in some cases give the BS a free med or low slot (1 3200mm/XLExtender rather than 2 1600mm/LSEs)
Which then, SeBos, TEs and other support mods become "easier" to fit.
I often find that more fits could gain so much more by gaining 1 low or med slot than if they had +1000 more PG or CPU. Its stuff like this is why no matter what, the rattler sports the strongest passive tank in the game short of caps (who passive tanks caps. And the Scorp with its 8 meds, can easily become a great baitship (LOL Scorp have no defense.... WHY THOSE SHIELD SO STRONG)

Also another thing, sicne IZ is very held up on the scanrez....

Well we have Reactor Control mods to boost your PG by a % value.
But for Frigates/Dessys there are Aux Reactor Cores, that boost the PG by a set value.

Do something similiar.
We've got SeBos+scripts that give a higher scanrez by %
Add another mod that works just like a SeBo+script. But adds ~50mm (+meta levels changes) and maybe give it a ~2 (+ meta levels) to your sensor strength. Then you can script it either way, 50% MORE base ScanRez, or 50% more base Sensor Strength. Note that these bonuses would be susceptible to stacking penalties, but they woudl be applied first as though they were part of your ships base stats.

With regards to what it woudl to to ships.
A Cane would see with a meta 1...
220mm scanrez would move to a 270mm, 295mm with script
If with an unscripted Sebo, it would be getting 275, with scripted sebo 330
Sensor strength
16 point base woudl move to a 18, 19 scripted (not much, but every bit helps) With proper ECCM, it basically doubles to 27-28

A Rokh on the other hand.
75mm scanrez would move to 125mm/150mm scripted
Sebo would see 93mm/112.5 scripted
This is ofcourse before skills


THERE a mod that helps the big ships, it can help the little ships. And is rather situational and wouldn't scale well for large fleets. Ofcourse people continue by arguing differing stats for the mod if you would.


Call it "Auxiliary Targeting System" or something silly like that


I'd prefer they just gave a set increase to sensor boosters. At 250mm you get a 150mm boost from a sensor booster and script. At 70m you get a 50mm boost so to get the same boost as a BC you need to fit 3 sensor boosters on a battleship which is impractical. Doesn't make a great deal of sense at lower scan resolutions.

Either that or a minimum scan res, giving a battleship the scan res of a dreadnaught because you fit a cloak, taking up 1 high slot and requiring a 10 second recal after you lock is a bit of overkill.


I think the intention is to discourage you from fitting a cloak unless you really, really need it.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2014-02-19 09:53:25 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Actually Prince of Wales remained out of range and shadowed them until another ship could take over, and Hood took a lucky hit (Amazing how often that happened against BS/BC's). The armour plan for Hood should have been OK at the range of engagement. They did slow down the Bismarck/Prinz Eugen fleet long enough for the Ark Royals teeny tiny biplanes to hit with torpedoes...



Price of whales was seriously hit and lot all its combat capability.


both the hood and the PoW were nto match to the bismarck at close range (altough were superior to it at longer range, due to the decisiosn both sides made on the armor layouts)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2014-02-19 09:58:29 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Right... Filing Infinity Ziona into the 'has no clue what they're talking about, troll into the ground' category, right there with deadonstick and goldiiee.



I appreciate free speech as much as the next guy, but have a clue before speaking..... It's a simple request.



Battleships are already a bit OP in any engagement not involving caps, with competent pilots behind the controls. Ignoring pilot error or capital escalation, a well organized, even small, BS fleet with a bit of logi support is really hard to kill, without bringing a much larger fleet or lots of Ewar/neuts/logi/etc. And the active rep power of some BS fits is obscene.

The 'Problem' with BS HP isn't BS(They can already get up near the 50k armor buffer values with pretty decent resists with fleet boosts and slave sets), it's the capacity for damage and massive EHP of cap's. The answer to that isn't to just make BS even bigger and stronger. Caps and their massive EHP and damage values are a direct response to the current game design of massive HP values on structures. Even a Small POS has something in the neighborhood of 14 mil HP before resists. Rebalance those values. Bring capital damage and HP back into sync, and change the whole structure grinding aspect..... That'd be far healthier than just saying 'Oh well, dreads can blap my BS.... let's make my BS stronger!'


I'm still in the camp of wanting a true heavy cruiser class in Eve though, and the existing BC's either re-imagined or reclassified.



While I agree in part (the part that Ziona is clueless). The Battleships position is not as good as you say. Only the drone battleships have that position right now. The EHP of battleships is also not large enough when comapred to their loss of mobility. T3 have MORE EHP than most battleships ( i hope they are nerfed a bit).

A simple example ( out of context, but just an example) of how battleships EHP might not match eve current metagame is how easily they are ganked by 6-8 destroyers in high sec).

Battleships on my eyes are so much worse at hitting targets when compared to smaller ships, that they do deserve a bit more DPS and a bit more EHP.

Wehenever we hunt in high sec.. any battleship that is not a vindicator or an armageddon... just cause us to say LOL.. easy kill!!!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2014-02-19 10:06:34 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Linkxsc162534 wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
larger plates would be a big help to the tempest, but a seriously massive help to armour scorps. ones kinda good, the others really kinda scary good.

and if theres a 3200mm plate, ppl will want an x-large shield extender. would that make shield tanking things like a cane and vindi scary strong?



Well when I suggested the BS sized mods, I was kinda figuring they would be demanding enough to be unfittable for BCs and below (unless they gimp their fits like some do with 100mn ABs/MWDs)

If anything else it would in some cases give the BS a free med or low slot (1 3200mm/XLExtender rather than 2 1600mm/LSEs)
Which then, SeBos, TEs and other support mods become "easier" to fit.
I often find that more fits could gain so much more by gaining 1 low or med slot than if they had +1000 more PG or CPU. Its stuff like this is why no matter what, the rattler sports the strongest passive tank in the game short of caps (who passive tanks caps. And the Scorp with its 8 meds, can easily become a great baitship (LOL Scorp have no defense.... WHY THOSE SHIELD SO STRONG)

Also another thing, sicne IZ is very held up on the scanrez....

Well we have Reactor Control mods to boost your PG by a % value.
But for Frigates/Dessys there are Aux Reactor Cores, that boost the PG by a set value.

Do something similiar.
We've got SeBos+scripts that give a higher scanrez by %
Add another mod that works just like a SeBo+script. But adds ~50mm (+meta levels changes) and maybe give it a ~2 (+ meta levels) to your sensor strength. Then you can script it either way, 50% MORE base ScanRez, or 50% more base Sensor Strength. Note that these bonuses would be susceptible to stacking penalties, but they woudl be applied first as though they were part of your ships base stats.

With regards to what it woudl to to ships.
A Cane would see with a meta 1...
220mm scanrez would move to a 270mm, 295mm with script
If with an unscripted Sebo, it would be getting 275, with scripted sebo 330
Sensor strength
16 point base woudl move to a 18, 19 scripted (not much, but every bit helps) With proper ECCM, it basically doubles to 27-28

A Rokh on the other hand.
75mm scanrez would move to 125mm/150mm scripted
Sebo would see 93mm/112.5 scripted
This is ofcourse before skills


THERE a mod that helps the big ships, it can help the little ships. And is rather situational and wouldn't scale well for large fleets. Ofcourse people continue by arguing differing stats for the mod if you would.


Call it "Auxiliary Targeting System" or something silly like that


I'd prefer they just gave a set increase to sensor boosters. At 250mm you get a 150mm boost from a sensor booster and script. At 70m you get a 50mm boost so to get the same boost as a BC you need to fit 3 sensor boosters on a battleship which is impractical. Doesn't make a great deal of sense at lower scan resolutions.

Either that or a minimum scan res, giving a battleship the scan res of a dreadnaught because you fit a cloak, taking up 1 high slot and requiring a 10 second recal after you lock is a bit of overkill.


I think the intention is to discourage you from fitting a cloak unless you really, really need it.

Well yeah but why? Take my covert Proteus. Its got all the benefits of a cruiser, with the tank of a battleship, 700 dps, it can warp cloaked, 4.5 second recal, 280mm scan res, can apply all its dps, warps at 5au.

Vs

My Mega - 78mm scan res, 10 second recal, can't warp cloaked, 900 dps (lose one turret to the cloak), warps at 2 au, against anything small dps drops to between 200 to 500.

vs

Ishtar

900 DPS (can insta pop an inty at 30km)
238mm scan res with the exact same cloak as on the mega.
....

While the idea of battleships shouldn't fit cloaks was likely true back in the day, BS are largely superseded by other ships since added that tend to make the BS look terrible in comparison and yet they can and do fit cloaks, some like the Prot very effectively and have shown that they're not the end of EVE in doing so.

Having flown Mega's and Proteus I can tell you if I was in any ship in EVE and had a choice of a Ishtar, Proteus or Mega uncloaking next to me I'd 100% choose the Mega every time.

At the very least I have 10 seconds to warp out + its lock time.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#78 - 2014-02-19 10:35:27 UTC
I'm fairly sure that's because you don't actually know how to fit megathrons, and are trying to compare a T3 ship with a covert ops cloak to a T1 battleship you've not put all the guns on and have all the penalties a cloak brings...
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2014-02-19 10:56:14 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
I'm fairly sure that's because you don't actually know how to fit megathrons, and are trying to compare a T3 ship with a covert ops cloak to a T1 battleship you've not put all the guns on and have all the penalties a cloak brings...

Lol.

[Megathron, Generic Solo]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Damage Control II

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Shadow Serpentis Stasis Webifier
True Sansha Warp Scrambler
100MN Microwarpdrive II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Improved 'Guise' Cloaking Device II

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Warrior II x5
Hammerhead II x5

This is something I'd use. Perhaps not the best setup but it works for me.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2014-02-19 11:14:50 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
I'm fairly sure that's because you don't actually know how to fit megathrons, and are trying to compare a T3 ship with a covert ops cloak to a T1 battleship you've not put all the guns on and have all the penalties a cloak brings...

Lol.

[Megathron, Generic Solo]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Damage Control II

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Shadow Serpentis Stasis Webifier
True Sansha Warp Scrambler
100MN Microwarpdrive II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Improved 'Guise' Cloaking Device II

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Warrior II x5
Hammerhead II x5

This is something I'd use. Perhaps not the best setup but it works for me.


Fail.... HORRIBLE fit. Then you come complain about battleships when you do stuff like that.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"