These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Insta lock gate camps

Author
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2014-02-18 17:27:45 UTC
This thread is so 2005.

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=201647

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#142 - 2014-02-18 17:55:38 UTC
fit an interceptor with a nanofiber, turn off the shield extender till you get to destination, than online it again.

Problem solved,

OP is really bad at this game.

Baddest poster ever

Sarcasim
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#143 - 2014-02-18 18:22:52 UTC
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:
There is this handy tool called a map. This map even shows the amount of jumps/pilots in system/kills in the last 30 mins. Sometimes the counter to a problem is avoiding it all together. When you undock, especially in low/null, you are running the risk of dying. I would say either find a new route, wait, bring backup, or use a cov ops. But then the gate campers would come and wine about cloaks being unbalanced.

Just because you died to one doesn't make it unbalanced.

Yes and because these campers never camp coke points that people have to go thru. Sometimes it doesn’t matter how skilled or how well prepared you may be or even in cov ops chance's are at some point or time you may get caught.

High value things I always use a scout. Not everyone has a second account much less 5 or more. I feel the op may be looking for a reasonable counter to insta locking gate camps other than go around which can’t always be done.

I would not be opposed to something like a probe you could send thru the gate. I know the gate campers would hate such a idea but when you think about it a scout is no different than a probe.

This would be more cost effective than maybe losing a cov ops or a another type of frig just to provide Intel.
Inari Visas
Federal Navy Academy
#144 - 2014-02-18 18:42:26 UTC
The only solution is to make attacking near a gate impossible. Say the gates have some anti-agression devices that prevent guns discharging.

Why should the player who would like to avoid getting killed, the only one that needs to work for it? Why not make the player who is looking for a kill work for it too?

(never died to a gate camp)
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#145 - 2014-02-18 18:51:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
There are many player-driven options to this problem without asking for nerfs...

1) Fit inertia stabilizers (better than nano for raw align times). i.e. Two inertia stabs & two nanofibers on a Punisher get its align to 1.9s for example.
2) Fit a cloak, MWD and learn cloak/MWD trick
3) Have someone in a cepter or frigate with 1 and 2 above fit scout you in
4) Refit once at desto to remove the stabs/nano's/cloak, or carry a mobile depot if NPC station not available
5) Added: Train evasive manuevers

F
Tajic Kaundur
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#146 - 2014-02-18 18:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tajic Kaundur
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:
Katrinna Voight-Kampf wrote:
Mildew Wolf wrote:
if you can align in less than 2 seconds they cant lock you fast enough out of gate cloak

also cloaks can help



I think you missed the instant part. Instant is faster then 2 seconds.


The server operates on one second ticks. It takes one tick to initiate lock, and tick to establish lock, so no matter how insta fit a ship is, two seconds is literally the fastest they are going to lock.

And, quite possibly, a third second to turn on their guns/point.

This can be negated if they initiate the lock by turning on their guns then clicking on you, but if they forgot to do that you're looking at three seconds to get out.

An average frigate can initiate warp in, what, just under 4 seconds? Dramatically less if you're speedtanked with nanos/istabs? I mean, istabs on a frigate are probably a bad idea, but still- increasing your agility isn't hard.

So you're looking at your opponent having a reaction time- notice you're there, click their guns, find you in space, then click you in space- of around half a second.

I'm honestly not sure how you get caught.

I've been yellowboxed in frigates in gatecamps all the time. They never get the point turned on, though.

Maybe train up your navigation skills a bit so you can get into warp faster? They're good skills to train up regardless of whether you're diving into gatecamps or not; so just get them already.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#147 - 2014-02-18 20:17:34 UTC
Katrinna Voight-Kampf wrote:
Are you really trying to defend this broken mechanic...

Let me give you a quick exemple.

Some pilot want to do some FW pvp, he buys a frigate and then he jumps into FW zones and get caught by a instalocking gate camp. The map shows kills and activity on the system but that's all normal because it's the FW zone. So you want the pilot to fit a cov ops on a frigate when he want to do some FW? Or do you want him to only fly a astero if we want to do some FW pvp? Or do you want him to get a alt account just do scout systems with a Ibis when he want to do FW pvp? Makes perfect sense...


No we want you to accept that EVE content is player driven and even if you set out to do FW when you logged in, surprise surprise, something else - something player driven - just might divert you a little (or a lot). If you like grinding along established grinding pathways then feel free to go play one of those games.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#148 - 2014-02-18 20:58:22 UTC
Buy Kronos/Vargur

Fit for tank and gank

Jump into instalock gatecamp

Dunk

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#149 - 2014-02-18 21:31:44 UTC
Katrinna Voight-Kampf wrote:


Something has to be done to fix this issue, it's killing the fun out of the game.





Unfortunately the people saying this are being outweighed by the people who think a lack of forced pvp is taking the fun out of the game. Look at all the interceptor whine threads.

Fortunately CCP doesn't seem to want to change them back, so inty's with warp stabilizers are the best way to travel now.
Sarcasim
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#150 - 2014-02-18 21:40:53 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
There are many player-driven options to this problem without asking for nerfs...

1) Fit inertia stabilizers (better than nano for raw align times). i.e. Two inertia stabs & two nanofibers on a Punisher get its align to 1.9s for example.
2) Fit a cloak, MWD and learn cloak/MWD trick
3) Have someone in a cepter or frigate with 1 and 2 above fit scout you in
4) Refit once at desto to remove the stabs/nano's/cloak, or carry a mobile depot if NPC station not available
5) Added: Train evasive manuevers

F


All these are good ideas except with a 2 sec lock the average ship will be alpha off the field before it can make it back to gate, in the case of cov op they can be decloaked regularly. They patched align times as well so even ceptors can be locked.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#151 - 2014-02-18 23:20:15 UTC
Oh crap a gatecamp
You got me baby
But I'll reship now
And pew you maybe
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#152 - 2014-02-18 23:27:35 UTC
Sarcasim wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
There are many player-driven options to this problem without asking for nerfs...

1) Fit inertia stabilizers (better than nano for raw align times). i.e. Two inertia stabs & two nanofibers on a Punisher get its align to 1.9s for example.
2) Fit a cloak, MWD and learn cloak/MWD trick
3) Have someone in a cepter or frigate with 1 and 2 above fit scout you in
4) Refit once at desto to remove the stabs/nano's/cloak, or carry a mobile depot if NPC station not available
5) Added: Train evasive manuevers

F


All these are good ideas except with a 2 sec lock the average ship will be alpha off the field before it can make it back to gate, in the case of cov op they can be decloaked regularly. They patched align times as well so even ceptors can be locked.



Suggestion 1) blows out your sig so you align quicker but they lock quicker

Suggestion 2) is good providing there is no lag. If an insta-locking camper is spamming the lock key with you selected in overview and their is even the slightest lag you will be locked the instant you align


meh .. the real issue with gate camps is whether or not bluesec people should be given back the ability to make their SOV space impenetrable to outsiders.
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#153 - 2014-02-18 23:45:46 UTC
Katrinna Voight-Kampf wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
it's literally impossible to be caught by one of these in highsec or lowsec if you know what you are doing.


Of course it is, everyone that dies in insta lock gate camps are just noobs that need to learn to play. Shame on them for not having a second account for a scouting alt, stupid noobs never learn.


I want to apologize for the community that so callously disregarded your real complaint with fake answers and half-solutions.

It is clear, from reading this whole terrible thread, that your complaint is very specific: "It is not fair that I can't get my combat-fit Merlin through an instalocking gate camp."

Of course you don't want any solutions that require you to use a different ship (reshipping is hard), or different fittings (refitting is hard); likewise, you aren't looking for solutions that would require you to have friends who can scout for you (social is hard), or have to use intelligence tools like maps (evaluating data is hard), open conversations (again, that whole social thing) or intel channels (finding them is, you guessed it, so hard). And it would be absurd to ask you to improve your skills as a pilot (HARD) when this is clearly an insurmountable obstacle.

Let me be the first to agree with you and say, unequivocally, that a poorly fit-for-travel-but-combat-ready Merlin that has no friends and sub-par piloting skills and refuses to burn back to the gate will always, 100% die to an instalock gate camp that knows what it is doing.

EVE is clearly broken. The best solution would be a Merlin-only lowslot module that not only increases your DPS by 40%, but makes you unlockable for 2 minutes after each session change. That way you don't have to compromise on your fit and can still ignore everyone else in EVE (including gate camps) with ease as you are on your way to all that sweet, sweet frigate faction warfare.

I am not an alt of Chribba.

handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#154 - 2014-02-19 07:21:38 UTC  |  Edited by: handige harrie
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
There are many player-driven options to this problem without asking for nerfs...

1) Fit inertia stabilizers (better than nano for raw align times). i.e. Two inertia stabs & two nanofibers on a Punisher get its align to 1.9s for example.
2) Fit a cloak, MWD and learn cloak/MWD trick
3) Have someone in a cepter or frigate with 1 and 2 above fit scout you in
4) Refit once at desto to remove the stabs/nano's/cloak, or carry a mobile depot if NPC station not available
5) Added: Train evasive manuevers

F


In an insta gatecamp, fitting Istabs will get you killed faster than trying to burn back to gate, they increase your sig radius so campers can lock you even faster.

In a proper gatecamp, you're dead as soon as you hit align, without warping within the next tick.

Baddest poster ever

LuisWu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#155 - 2014-02-19 08:30:42 UTC
OP, read my signature, every subcapilal ship can do it. Problem solved.

F*** This Game

Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#156 - 2014-02-19 08:40:07 UTC
Honest question here: I was reading my loot your tears yesterday and the author talked about hunting a crane in highsec. They caught him as he came through a gate and as he aligned to warp the act of aligning made the cloak fall off.

So a cloak WONT help me get into low sec and do stuff? One poster above said he'd seen a shuttle killed in a camp. Is there a good merlin fit? Ok yeah thats 2 questions :P

Will gank for food

Good Posting
Doomheim
#157 - 2014-02-19 11:12:08 UTC
Tarojan wrote:
So a cloak WONT help me get into low sec and do stuff?


No, you can't do stuff in low sec because there is nothing to do here. I would stay in hi sec if i were you. More isk opportunities, more people to interact with, more belts, more anoms, more of everything. And much better!! Thousands of people can't be wrong, just think about it.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2014-02-19 12:47:20 UTC
Tarojan wrote:
Honest question here: I was reading my loot your tears yesterday and the author talked about hunting a crane in highsec. They caught him as he came through a gate and as he aligned to warp the act of aligning made the cloak fall off.

So a cloak WONT help me get into low sec and do stuff? One poster above said he'd seen a shuttle killed in a camp. Is there a good merlin fit? Ok yeah thats 2 questions :P


Honest answers:

. When you align your 'gate cloak/invulnerability' drops and you have to activate your covops cloak. You cannot activate your covops cloak (or any other module) without moving first, thus dropping gate cloak. However, if you're quick about it it's extremely difficult for someone to point you. Not sure it's impossible, but trust me: it's usually not gonna happen. Guy in crane was probably just slow. You can however be decloaked and pointed before entering warp if someone gets <2km from you. A competent interceptor pilot will be able to do that regularly. However, not all intie pilots are good enough, and you could get lucky anyway. Fit a stab or two for extra protection.

. Shuttles will be killed by instalock camps fairly regularly. Especially if they're carrying PLEX Twisted

. A PVP-fit Merlin will usually die to instalock camps. But for example if you fit (and skill up) for the highest possible tank + a mwd you will survive most camps by burning back to gate with oh'd MWD. You can easily get 15k+ EHP from a Merlin if you sacrifice everything else for tank. But a high alpha camp will kill you anyway.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

seth Hendar
I love you miners
#159 - 2014-02-19 14:19:47 UTC
Inari Visas wrote:
The only solution is to make attacking near a gate impossible. Say the gates have some anti-agression devices that prevent guns discharging.

Why should the player who would like to avoid getting killed, the only one that needs to work for it? Why not make the player who is looking for a kill work for it too?

(never died to a gate camp)

cause then one couldn't be caught?

if you can't fight on gate, tell me how do you catch one warping from gate to gate?

this would make travel way too safe, and don't answer bubble, thee are no bubble in low, fight opportunities are already scarce enought, reducing them is not the way to go.

anyway, this idea is dumb, and for the work thingy, it actually require way more work to catch a fast warper than it is to avoid a get camp...
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#160 - 2014-02-19 14:21:53 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Tarojan wrote:
Honest question here: I was reading my loot your tears yesterday and the author talked about hunting a crane in highsec. They caught him as he came through a gate and as he aligned to warp the act of aligning made the cloak fall off.

So a cloak WONT help me get into low sec and do stuff? One poster above said he'd seen a shuttle killed in a camp. Is there a good merlin fit? Ok yeah thats 2 questions :P


Honest answers:

. When you align your 'gate cloak/invulnerability' drops and you have to activate your covops cloak. You cannot activate your covops cloak (or any other module) without moving first, thus dropping gate cloak. However, if you're quick about it it's extremely difficult for someone to point you. Not sure it's impossible, but trust me: it's usually not gonna happen. Guy in crane was probably just slow. You can however be decloaked and pointed before entering warp if someone gets <2km from you. A competent interceptor pilot will be able to do that regularly. However, not all intie pilots are good enough, and you could get lucky anyway. Fit a stab or two for extra protection.

. Shuttles will be killed by instalock camps fairly regularly. Especially if they're carrying PLEX Twisted

. A PVP-fit Merlin will usually die to instalock camps. But for example if you fit (and skill up) for the highest possible tank + a mwd you will survive most camps by burning back to gate with oh'd MWD. You can easily get 15k+ EHP from a Merlin if you sacrifice everything else for tank. But a high alpha camp will kill you anyway.

unless you are bad, you need less than a second to activate your cloack, and this is not enought for anyone to lock you.

the only way to catch you is you needed more than 2 sec to activate your cloack, were decloacked or prevented to cloack by having something within 2km of your ship

regarding shuttles, they warp under 2 sec unless really poor skill, so if caught, pilot's fault.

shuttles and alike carrying valuable are more often caught at undock / station landing or smartbomb