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Interdictors, Bubbles and Aggro

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Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-11-15 17:14:46 UTC
Sir Scarecrow wrote:
I think you are missing the point of someone needing to try to warp in the bubble or someone being pulled out of warp to start the weapons timer. Because if I was to drop a bubble on a station and no one but I was in system should that give weapons timer? Or if I was 100km off a gate and only one in system. That is where there needs to be something to cause the weapons timer.

as you were stating that about shooting at frig and missing. As you can't just point your ship in a random direction and fire turret weapons....


Sorry, I am a hisec kinda guy, for the most part. IS there a passive reason for bubbles? One that dfoes not involve wrecking someone elses day? If not then it should trigger timers, not when it hits, when launched.

Set a smart bomb off in a place far from everyone and everything, does the timer start? Why? I wasn't hurting anything?

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Silence Void
In The Silence
#42 - 2014-02-04 09:49:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Silence Void
I think the mechanic here that's broken is the fact that a fleet can have 100 people in it sitting on/in a station and be endlessly bubbled by a single no-risk interdictor that has macro'd the act of undocking, dropping a bubble, and redocking all without having to worry about dying, despite being endlessly outnumbered and right under the nose of a fleet that could kill a dictor with even just a sneeze.

Obvious techniques to kill said interdictor involve using remote sebos to try and boost the scan res of a fast locking ship capable of alpha-striking the dictor... or smartbombs. Both techniques are defeated by the fact that the invul timer for the dictor just flat out doesn't allow anything to ever happen to it. On many stations, the undock range won't come anywhere near where smartbombs can reach because of the restrictions on using smartbombs near stations.

The ONLY mechanic right now to deal with the bubbles is to have a stealth bomber counter the bubbles using a bomb. This only helps get the bubbles down though, as the invul timer on the dictor still keeps it 100% perfectly safe.

Is this considered abuse of a mechanic? or this intentionally allowed gameplay?
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#43 - 2014-02-18 17:07:24 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I've used dictors on a gate to hold capitals down, as well as dictors on a station to inhibit logistics.

In my opinion, dropping a bubble should NOT cause a weapons nor PvP timer.
However, if someone is inhibited from warping because of your hictor/dictor bubble, you absolutely should receive a weapons and PvP timer.

It gets pretty silly when I can undock, drop a bubble, redock. Undock, drop a bubble, redock.

Thankfully, those of us familiar with game mechanics will simply drop a bomb via stealth bomber to clear the bubbles and then cyno out.


so what? you undock / bubble / dock up, the second later one try to warp out and gain a timer?

cool but you are already in station, yet you agressed someone in a time frame that wouldn't allow you to dock?

what to do, we eject you from station then?

launch bubble -> gun timer. there, fixed it!
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#44 - 2014-02-18 21:17:28 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I've used dictors on a gate to hold capitals down, as well as dictors on a station to inhibit logistics.

In my opinion, dropping a bubble should NOT cause a weapons nor PvP timer.
However, if someone is inhibited from warping because of your hictor/dictor bubble, you absolutely should receive a weapons and PvP timer.

It gets pretty silly when I can undock, drop a bubble, redock. Undock, drop a bubble, redock.

Thankfully, those of us familiar with game mechanics will simply drop a bomb via stealth bomber to clear the bubbles and then cyno out.


so what? you undock / bubble / dock up, the second later one try to warp out and gain a timer?

cool but you are already in station, yet you agressed someone in a time frame that wouldn't allow you to dock?

what to do, we eject you from station then?

launch bubble -> gun timer. there, fixed it!


A couple other tings to ponder:

If you shoot an NPC with your guns (or use ewar on them), you do not gain a weapons timer. So why should dropping a bubble instantly give you a weapons timer?

If you insist that dropping a bubble gives you a weapons timer, then then everyone inside the bubble should instantly gain a PvP timer.

My suggestion gives a weapons timer to the dictor at the same time that the "victim" receives a PvP timer (i.e. when he tries to warp in the bubble and is prevented because of it).

Furthermore, my suggestion solves the bubble camping shenanigans: If they drop a bubble, and you warp in it and are subsequently prevented from warping because of the bubble, the dictor gains a weapons timer. If they are docked, so what? Your problem is still solved, because if they undock, they will still have the weapons timer (assuming you are still attempting to warp in their bubble), and then they will be pragmatically stuck on the station undock, inside their own bubble, and unable to dock. If you can't figure out how to solve that situation, you shouldn't be in nullsec to begin with!

ElextriX
The Forge Buccaneers
#45 - 2014-02-18 22:06:55 UTC
+1

Bubble aggression mechanics are ridiculous.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#46 - 2014-02-22 14:49:59 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I've used dictors on a gate to hold capitals down, as well as dictors on a station to inhibit logistics.

In my opinion, dropping a bubble should NOT cause a weapons nor PvP timer.
However, if someone is inhibited from warping because of your hictor/dictor bubble, you absolutely should receive a weapons and PvP timer.

It gets pretty silly when I can undock, drop a bubble, redock. Undock, drop a bubble, redock.

Thankfully, those of us familiar with game mechanics will simply drop a bomb via stealth bomber to clear the bubbles and then cyno out.


so what? you undock / bubble / dock up, the second later one try to warp out and gain a timer?

cool but you are already in station, yet you agressed someone in a time frame that wouldn't allow you to dock?

what to do, we eject you from station then?

launch bubble -> gun timer. there, fixed it!


A couple other tings to ponder:

If you shoot an NPC with your guns (or use ewar on them), you do not gain a weapons timer. So why should dropping a bubble instantly give you a weapons timer?

If you insist that dropping a bubble gives you a weapons timer, then then everyone inside the bubble should instantly gain a PvP timer.

My suggestion gives a weapons timer to the dictor at the same time that the "victim" receives a PvP timer (i.e. when he tries to warp in the bubble and is prevented because of it).

Furthermore, my suggestion solves the bubble camping shenanigans: If they drop a bubble, and you warp in it and are subsequently prevented from warping because of the bubble, the dictor gains a weapons timer. If they are docked, so what? Your problem is still solved, because if they undock, they will still have the weapons timer (assuming you are still attempting to warp in their bubble), and then they will be pragmatically stuck on the station undock, inside their own bubble, and unable to dock. If you can't figure out how to solve that situation, you shouldn't be in nullsec to begin with!


simple, if you drop a bubble and there is no player inside, you affect nobody, so there is no reason for timer.

if you drop a bubble with someone inside, you actually point that person, using a different mechanics than a tgt point, but with the same result (+-) -> timer should apply (technically, you affect one of it's ship parameter, denying him the ability to warp, this is clearly an aggression regarding game mechanic
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-02-25 13:20:13 UTC
YES PLEASE !

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2014-02-25 13:21:06 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I've used dictors on a gate to hold capitals down, as well as dictors on a station to inhibit logistics.

In my opinion, dropping a bubble should NOT cause a weapons nor PvP timer.
However, if someone is inhibited from warping because of your hictor/dictor bubble, you absolutely should receive a weapons and PvP timer.

It gets pretty silly when I can undock, drop a bubble, redock. Undock, drop a bubble, redock.

Thankfully, those of us familiar with game mechanics will simply drop a bomb via stealth bomber to clear the bubbles and then cyno out.


so what? you undock / bubble / dock up, the second later one try to warp out and gain a timer?

cool but you are already in station, yet you agressed someone in a time frame that wouldn't allow you to dock?

what to do, we eject you from station then?

launch bubble -> gun timer. there, fixed it!


A couple other tings to ponder:

If you shoot an NPC with your guns (or use ewar on them), you do not gain a weapons timer. So why should dropping a bubble instantly give you a weapons timer?

If you insist that dropping a bubble gives you a weapons timer, then then everyone inside the bubble should instantly gain a PvP timer.

My suggestion gives a weapons timer to the dictor at the same time that the "victim" receives a PvP timer (i.e. when he tries to warp in the bubble and is prevented because of it).

Furthermore, my suggestion solves the bubble camping shenanigans: If they drop a bubble, and you warp in it and are subsequently prevented from warping because of the bubble, the dictor gains a weapons timer. If they are docked, so what? Your problem is still solved, because if they undock, they will still have the weapons timer (assuming you are still attempting to warp in their bubble), and then they will be pragmatically stuck on the station undock, inside their own bubble, and unable to dock. If you can't figure out how to solve that situation, you shouldn't be in nullsec to begin with!


simple, if you drop a bubble and there is no player inside, you affect nobody, so there is no reason for timer.

if you drop a bubble with someone inside, you actually point that person, using a different mechanics than a tgt point, but with the same result (+-) -> timer should apply (technically, you affect one of it's ship parameter, denying him the ability to warp, this is clearly an aggression regarding game mechanic


Oh well so if I ECM burst or smartbomb and there is no one around it shouldnt cause aggression either but it does.

Its a broken mechanic dude.

activating the launcher should cause aggression.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-02-25 18:47:42 UTC
the quickest and easiest fix is to apply the same mechanic other area effect modules have, no activation within 5k of a station or a gate just like smartbombs. so if you want to bubble the station, you have to be far enough away to be target-able and kill able before getting back to the safety of the station. The station can still be covered, just no easy safety
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#50 - 2014-02-25 21:05:49 UTC
Draconus Lofwyr wrote:
the quickest and easiest fix is to apply the same mechanic other area effect modules have, no activation within 5k of a station or a gate just like smartbombs. so if you want to bubble the station, you have to be far enough away to be target-able and kill able before getting back to the safety of the station. The station can still be covered, just no easy safety


Only smartbombs and some anchorable objects have this penalty.

ECM bursts, hic bubbles, dic bubbles, etc, don't.
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-02-26 23:06:38 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Draconus Lofwyr wrote:
the quickest and easiest fix is to apply the same mechanic other area effect modules have, no activation within 5k of a station or a gate just like smartbombs. so if you want to bubble the station, you have to be far enough away to be target-able and kill able before getting back to the safety of the station. The station can still be covered, just no easy safety


Only smartbombs and some anchorable objects have this penalty.

ECM bursts, hic bubbles, dic bubbles, etc, don't.



i know that, hence the suggestion on a fix. just treat the deploy-able bubble like a smart bomb, leave the hictor and ecm burst as is.

that or if your not in space, the bubble pops, like you loose control of drones.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#52 - 2014-02-27 15:00:00 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Luwc wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I've used dictors on a gate to hold capitals down, as well as dictors on a station to inhibit logistics.

In my opinion, dropping a bubble should NOT cause a weapons nor PvP timer.
However, if someone is inhibited from warping because of your hictor/dictor bubble, you absolutely should receive a weapons and PvP timer.

It gets pretty silly when I can undock, drop a bubble, redock. Undock, drop a bubble, redock.

Thankfully, those of us familiar with game mechanics will simply drop a bomb via stealth bomber to clear the bubbles and then cyno out.


so what? you undock / bubble / dock up, the second later one try to warp out and gain a timer?

cool but you are already in station, yet you agressed someone in a time frame that wouldn't allow you to dock?

what to do, we eject you from station then?

launch bubble -> gun timer. there, fixed it!


A couple other tings to ponder:

If you shoot an NPC with your guns (or use ewar on them), you do not gain a weapons timer. So why should dropping a bubble instantly give you a weapons timer?

If you insist that dropping a bubble gives you a weapons timer, then then everyone inside the bubble should instantly gain a PvP timer.

My suggestion gives a weapons timer to the dictor at the same time that the "victim" receives a PvP timer (i.e. when he tries to warp in the bubble and is prevented because of it).

Furthermore, my suggestion solves the bubble camping shenanigans: If they drop a bubble, and you warp in it and are subsequently prevented from warping because of the bubble, the dictor gains a weapons timer. If they are docked, so what? Your problem is still solved, because if they undock, they will still have the weapons timer (assuming you are still attempting to warp in their bubble), and then they will be pragmatically stuck on the station undock, inside their own bubble, and unable to dock. If you can't figure out how to solve that situation, you shouldn't be in nullsec to begin with!


simple, if you drop a bubble and there is no player inside, you affect nobody, so there is no reason for timer.

if you drop a bubble with someone inside, you actually point that person, using a different mechanics than a tgt point, but with the same result (+-) -> timer should apply (technically, you affect one of it's ship parameter, denying him the ability to warp, this is clearly an aggression regarding game mechanic


Oh well so if I ECM burst or smartbomb and there is no one around it shouldnt cause aggression either but it does.

Its a broken mechanic dude.

activating the launcher should cause aggression.

you are right, it should be made consistent, either apply the current timer mechanic like smartbomb, OR the one i propose to all those.

consistency is great when it comes to AOE mechanics (hictor bubbles too indeed)

regarding hictors, what is the curent game mechanic?

if you use focused point, you got timer, but if u use bubble mode, you don't?

would be odd, since in 1 case, you prevent 1 ship to warp, but in the second, you might prevent 10 or 100 from doing so....
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