These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Sentries at 100km vs frigs
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#1 - 2014-02-12 16:47:32 UTC
How effective are sentries at hitting orbiting frigates (PVP) at 100km range?
Should i always go for highest tracking (and sacrifice range) or is "medium" tracking enough (in which case more range = better)?

With my setup and skills:
Domi with 2 Omnis (1 tracking speed, 1 range), both OL

Curator I
Optimal/Falloff: 70/26
Tracking: 0.036

Bouncer I
Opitamal/Falloff: 80/47
Tracking: 0.018

Will Bouncers with their lower tracking be able to hit orbiting frigates at 100km?
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2014-02-12 17:16:55 UTC
hydraSlav wrote:
How effective are sentries at hitting orbiting frigates (PVP) at 100km range?
Should i always go for highest tracking (and sacrifice range) or is "medium" tracking enough (in which case more range = better)?

With my setup and skills:
Domi with 2 Omnis (1 tracking speed, 1 range), both OL

Curator I
Optimal/Falloff: 70/26
Tracking: 0.036

Bouncer I
Opitamal/Falloff: 80/47
Tracking: 0.018

Will Bouncers with their lower tracking be able to hit orbiting frigates at 100km?


Most frigates will die. Inties can prolly sig tank at that range if they maintain transversal.. but t1 frigs will burn.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#3 - 2014-02-12 17:20:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
It really depends on the target angle. For example, a condor flying with an MWD will be hit harder by curators if it spirals in using an angle of more than 12-15 degrees at that range. Given the amount of DPS though a 5 sentry dominix can provide, it really is difficult for a frigate to sustain the damage taken anyway.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
#4 - 2014-02-12 21:03:56 UTC
Just go watch replays of ATXI and you'll find your answer

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#5 - 2014-02-13 14:22:17 UTC
So i tried this on a test server, and the result where abysmal

At 100km, with 2 Omnis and 2 optimal scripts, neither Curators nor Bouncers could hit the target reliably (Gardes didn't have anywhere enough range). Sure, if they got the 1% chance wrecking hit, it was great (still no insta-pop), but it took sometimes over 2 minutes for that to happen. And the orbiting frigate didn't even have a MWD, just normal ~500m/s 10km orbit. Having MWD and ~2500m/s 10km orbit made no difference

I don't think even having a web on target would help, as an inty with AB would do ~1000m/s, and with a web on it, would be ~500m/s, which is what i had.

I tried switching to 1 optimal, 1 tracking script, and moving the fight a little closer at 70km. The results were similar

Seems like only Garde's with 2 tracking scripts at 30km range had a reliable chance to hit this target. But at that range, i might as well use Warrior IIs

Would having a Target Painter on the target help? Is Sentry's gun resolution considered "large" that would benefit from increased signature radius?
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#6 - 2014-02-13 14:28:06 UTC
Sentries have 125m sig and yeah if there's any decent angular going on it just won't happen if it's an inty. T1 MWD frigs will get hit but if they use a decent angle they should make it to a range where Wardens/Bouncers will simply stop tracking, it's going to take a lot more effort though.
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#7 - 2014-02-13 15:45:31 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Sentries have 125m sig.


That's wrong. Sentries have 400 sig.

....and TP might be helpful.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#8 - 2014-02-13 15:57:41 UTC
Deerin wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Sentries have 125m sig.


That's wrong. Sentries have 400 sig.

....and TP might be helpful.


Doh I'm an idiot, mixed up some numbers. 125 would make them cruiser "size".
snake03
#9 - 2014-02-15 00:36:35 UTC
hydraSlav wrote:
So i tried this on a test server, and the result where abysmal

At 100km, with 2 Omnis and 2 optimal scripts, neither Curators nor Bouncers could hit the target reliably (Gardes didn't have anywhere enough range). Sure, if they got the 1% chance wrecking hit, it was great (still no insta-pop), but it took sometimes over 2 minutes for that to happen. And the orbiting frigate didn't even have a MWD, just normal ~500m/s 10km orbit. Having MWD and ~2500m/s 10km orbit made no difference

I don't think even having a web on target would help, as an inty with AB would do ~1000m/s, and with a web on it, would be ~500m/s, which is what i had.

I tried switching to 1 optimal, 1 tracking script, and moving the fight a little closer at 70km. The results were similar

Seems like only Garde's with 2 tracking scripts at 30km range had a reliable chance to hit this target. But at that range, i might as well use Warrior IIs

Would having a Target Painter on the target help? Is Sentry's gun resolution considered "large" that would benefit from increased signature radius?



Yes, a TP should help alot.

I'm just a modern day caveman in search of a bigger club.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-02-15 05:03:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Praxis Ginimic
The last time I took on a domi (quite recently) I was easily able to get under its sentry's guns in a cruiser. Once I got there he hit me with heavy neuts, webs & hammerheads though. Needless to say I was helpless at that point but his sentries couldn't do more than scratch an ab rupture so I doubt they would do much more than that to any frig.

My advice would be to focus on forcing them within heavy neut range and let out the warriors.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#11 - 2014-02-15 07:21:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
If you want to snipe frigates (especially in lowsec), then it makes sense to get outside of npc sentry gun range.

So grab a cheap snipe domi, set camp 155km away from the gate (and in a straight line to the next popular gate/station) and bring a friend or two with a 2mil isk Vigil. They will definitely like the experience.

[Vigil, SG Cheapskate Vigil]

F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation

Alumel-Wired Sensor Augmentation, Targeting Range Script
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

Salvager I
Salvager I

Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Small Particle Dispersion Projector I
Small Particle Dispersion Projector I
Sianah Qan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-02-15 07:31:54 UTC
In PvE, you can just carry an extra tracking script. (I don't see why you don't have an extra of each. Just sayin) and that will solve 99% of your frig problems at range.

In PvP, I'd advise you to research using a target pointer, or keeping some spare EWAR drones in your pocket. One web, one point, and three sentries will ruin the day of most frigs. But that's theory, and someone'll come up with a solution to it pretty quick-like.
Garaba
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#13 - 2014-02-15 14:58:37 UTC
An amusing thing to do is train blops, drop sentries off a gate in low sec/null, cloak up so you disconnect from your drones, sit there and wait for something to come try to scoop them, uncloak, reconnect, target, and go blap!

Panther with Arti works well for this. If things go wrong just mwd pulse away while pulsing cloak. I believe with snake set and what not you can get up over 2.5km/s doing that.


Yes this has nothing to do with the post. No mi don't know why I posted it.
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-02-17 14:06:05 UTC
It's hard to to gauge if it'd work because I don't know what your fit or skills are, but have you considered wardens? They have the same tracking as Bouncers so if you can eke out enough range out of them with skills alone you could get the same effective 100km range and more tracking by going with one Omnidirectional unscripted, or even with a tracking script.

No sig.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-02-18 11:25:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Arsine Mayhem
Pretty big jump in tracking when you move to T2 sentries. You won't have a problem with frigs then.

Also, looks like faction sentries have better tracking than T2's.
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#16 - 2014-02-18 14:23:27 UTC
Thanks all for replies. Just to clarify something: everyone assumes the frigs will be flying at the sentries. This is not my scenario that i described.

My scenario is: my sentries are 100km from my ship. Enemy frigs (PVP) are orbiting my ship. The idea is to get these frigs off my ship. If they decide to go fly towards the sentries, then mission accomplished (they are off my ship).

Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Pretty big jump in tracking when you move to T2 sentries. You won't have a problem with frigs then.

Also, looks like faction sentries have better tracking than T2's.


Thanks for this, i will look into that. It didn't look too big of a jump on paper, and i don't have the skills for T2 sentries yet, but i will try the faction ones.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#17 - 2014-02-18 18:38:16 UTC
hydraSlav wrote:
My scenario is: my sentries are 100km from my ship. Enemy frigs (PVP) are orbiting my ship. The idea is to get these frigs off my ship. If they decide to go fly towards the sentries, then mission accomplished (they are off my ship).
So what you are asking is - how can I clear the tacklers off my Battleship after I've MJD'd. The answer is - you have back up. Neuts and smartbombs might help since scrams are the issue. But in any case it's a BS. If you are flying it solo without backup, you ARE going to lose it eventually. So fly with friends, or use something smaller.

(Note - I fly solo all the time cuz I have no friends.)
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#18 - 2014-02-18 19:05:38 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
So what you are asking is - how can I clear the tacklers off my Battleship after I've MJD'd.

No, rather "how can i pop a couple of frigs, and then MJD towards my sentries, scoop, and warp.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#19 - 2014-02-19 01:57:27 UTC
Frigates when not MWDing have signature radii of 30-50mm (let's call that 40mm), and your sentries have a scan resolution of 400mm.

That means that the frigate's effective angular velocity is 10 times (400/40) its actual angular. And sentry tracking is terrible.

If the frig MWDs, the sigrad increases by a factor of 6, but they also usually have 3-5 times the actual angular, so that mostly cancels out.


As such you want a dedicated answer to frigates on your droneboat. I personally prefer 2x Web and 5x Warrior II but YMMV.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Inari Visas
Federal Navy Academy
#20 - 2014-02-19 09:11:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Inari Visas
I'm confused. OP talks about 100km orbiting frigates, and then you check at 10km? Excuse my confusion. Are the sentries 100km away from the domi, while it being orbited by a frigate at 10km?
12Next page