Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Where are these ships placed on the market by NPC sell orders @ 1.6b?

As I said, I dont know much about how the ships compare. I know what I fly, but I never cared for the T3 ships.

What is the EHP of a Nestor with a couple Plates for buffer? How does that compare to a Proteus? Not just the effectiveness of the RR itself, but the ability to absorb an alpha as well. Is the Proteus that stout? I know Damnations can get silly large HP buffers, but I have never heard the same of the T3 ships. I admit I dont fly them, but my understanding is that part of their performance excellence comes from thier manuverability.

What is the range of the RR on the two ships? The Proteus must be flying pretty tight to pull that off. What happens when one gets webbed? The Nestors will have much more situational flexability.

What is the size of the Proteus drone bay and its bandwidth? Is it putting out full flights of bonused sentries with spare flights? Is the damage the same, or as with the Stratios is it a bit less?

Spider tanking drone ships are not new, but there is no denying that they are both pkwerful and effective. In combination with the perfect defense of a cov-ops cloak I think they would be more powerful than intended.

We absolutely need more CovOps capable ships in the game. Can you imagine the well played bait and counter drop on a fleet of Nestors? More content, more fun…. it is that simple.

Getting the Nestor tweaked to fit a cov ops cloak will happen only if they do the black ops too, which will never happen unfortunately.

I do however think it would benefit from the normal Black ops abilities greatly given it's exploration role. I was expecting the Nestor to have something along these lines on launch but clearly i was mistaken.

To make it unique they could introduce a SOE Cyno for the smaller SOE ships to use and allow the Nestor to bridge to W-Space with an SOE jump portal generator allowing ships to travel alongside it but only of SOE origin.

In wormhole space the advantage of the ability to warp cloaked is clear.
In lowsec and null the atvantage is less clear as local negates the suprise fleet concept to a large degree. It is impossible for a group to sneak up on someone other than in using a small ship and hot-drop them.

So for those at live in null and losec PLEASE explain What is overpowered in your environment in a battleship WARPING CLOAKED,

Battleships can already warp and can already cloak,provide logi,drop drones, afk cloak and do all sorts of other things you may not like.this is not about that.

This is asking specifically for the Nestor to warp cloaked. If we identify the specific issue you have, then a balance can be made to allow the ability thereby making it possible to use it in wormhole space.

If after careful thought you realise that, warping cloaked in a battleship is not actually that bad after all, then please post that together with the type of space/s you tend to operate in. Then we can move this discussion forward.

But :-
Please don't post "no! it has never happened before, I don't like it!, it will be overpowered !!! " comments, no more "no cloaky battleships!! CCP Promised! (Sort of) "comments please.


We all have read the cut'n paste comments and thinking, we don't need more.

Hi

I wanted to post because I appreciate that the discussion is mostly very constructive and that's always nice to see.

To respond to a few specific things:



This is false. The SOE line was originally conceived based on a few elements, none of which had to do with cloaks. The original idea actually existed before I got to CCP and the main goals at first were to combine lasers and drones for the most renewable weapon loadout possible so that long deployment would be easy and also to make a very flexible ship that would emulate the Gnosis due to its popularity but limited nature. As always we went through a lot of iteration and eventually arrived at the covert solution for the Astero and Stratios and felt good about that. The Nestor was a bit of a puzzle for awhile and eventually we settled on logistics as the main theme, which was an idea that showed up internally and in the community.



This is partly true. There is a fuzzy power barrier here that we don't want to cross, but as this thread is illustrating it can be difficult to pin down where that line should be. BLOPS came up because we felt if we started pushing into the black ops role with the Nestor before we had a black ops rebalance done we may have to go back and re-consider the Nestor afterwards.



Again, it wasn't 'meant' to be a covert ship, and there is no shortage of bravery here, I assure you.



We may need to make more changes to get it established as the aspirational ship that we want it to be, but I still think a lot of the problems here are related to cost. If the Nestor was 500mil I doubt this discussion would be as common. We'll see how the new drops coming soon affect price and if we still have this problem we can look at making more changes.

Thanks again for a productive thread
Rise

Still not sure why CCP and other groups seem to think that having a cloak on a battleship is a bad thing, they will make the platform expensive and a desirable target for those looking to pad kill mails as they are that much harder to find and kill.

Plus the Nestor without a jump drive wont be able to use a covert ops bridge that isn't even an issue.

Nestor could use a few tweaks to make it more desirable at the current cost, a covert ops cloak would be a big plus for that, maybe rearrange the weapons and high slots to make it more useful as a combat vessel, like 4x turret slots and 100% bonus to damage instead of the 50% bonus to energy weapon range (keep in mind there are no other bonuses to weapons other than drones) , making it no more powerful than a Navy Armageddon. It then can still function as an exploration and logistics vessel. But that is how I would design a deep space exploration vessel but I realise I might be a minority in that view.

I am also sure someone said something along the line CCP don't just through things in and see what happens, they do that all the time why do you think we go through so much balancing (too much in my opinion), continually balancing ships so they are similar goes against most principles of warship design (look at the Drake it is have need nerfed so much it can barely be called a warship anymore ) . Keep in mind how weapons progress first person gets a stick his enemy gets a bigger stick and so on. It would be nice to get some bigger weapons in Eve, but that is a different point, just because it might alter a persons game play doesn't mean it should not be added. Another example CCP altered the Ice Mining and that killed one play style that was much enjoyed and they completely ignored that community, it would be nice if they would listen to the Pro Covertops Battleship community for once and give us what we want, as they seem to do it for everyone else when they cry about how powerful a ship has gotten when they couldn't one shot it on a gate.

Apologies for the small rant, but it is years of frustration over how things seem to progress, but it is part of the problem when it comes to adding content like cloaked battleship, a vocal minority will sit and make up excuses why it shouldn't happen rather than giving it a chance. Maybe it would be different if there were methods of detecting cloaked ship and it would not be such an issue but that is yet another controversial topic that keeps being put off.

Why is being able to choose a fight with a battleship a bad thing?

Yes, cost is probably the key issue here - and yes, if it were priced between between $500-$600 million that would certainly make it more appealing. However, the Nestor still lacks enough power grid and capacitor to be effectively utilized. To really be useful in wormhole space it needs a Covert Ops cloak.

Im not sure people who fly 7b pve vindicators while suspect 1j from jita are really credible when they complain about prices.

Same goes for people who fly arty tengus.