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So it is true you can earn 120m per hour from Iskursions?

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Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#61 - 2011-11-27 15:12:34 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
I stand corrected... You raise interest rates. welp.


Fixed your post. Blink
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2011-11-27 15:26:51 UTC
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
I stand corrected... You raise interest rates. welp.


Fixed your post. Blink


f**k economics.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#63 - 2011-11-27 15:43:47 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
its 1.2+ bill a day if you put in a 9 hour day and have a good fleet run



let me say this, that's before you convert LPs to isk,


Wow, that's really impressive. You gotta feel sorry for those miners earning a paltry 5m per hour. A miner has to play 200 hours just to earn that much. Really CCP just delete half the occupations on EVE. They are completely unviable now since they have no chance of earning enough to buy a Plex. Sandbox my a$$... Cry
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2011-11-27 16:12:48 UTC
I dislike that the new benchmark for successful PvE is "How fast can I earn my monthly PLEX." When did that happen? When did people become so averse to paying $15 per month for a very decent MMO?

I mean, if you have to PLEX 6 accounts every month then maybe having 6 accounts is more hassle than it's worth.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#65 - 2011-11-27 17:33:06 UTC
There is a factor more important than Risk versus reward, that is perceived risk versus reward. When people perceive risk, whether it is true risk or not they act differently. Perceived risk can keep an empire immune from attack while in actuality said empire farms incursions or does something like ice belts many jumps away.

The Forums do a lot to increase perceived risk. If you play this games without the forums, its quite a different game than if you spend time reading the forums.

I made some nice isk on incursions for a while but the few really good fleet channels i had seem to have gone silent. If I really wanted to do this, I would set up some low tax shell corps to bounce between for war decs and a nice mumble or IM setup so you could farm with the same guys like a corp but not be in a corp. Like a Mini coalition of proven pilots that pay attention and hang with the fleets for longer periods of time. Momentum is important.
Amro One
One.
#66 - 2011-11-27 17:39:20 UTC
Your just made that you dont fly logistic and no one wants your ****** raven in fleet.

Can I have your stuff.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2011-11-27 17:41:33 UTC
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
its 1.2+ bill a day if you put in a 9 hour day and have a good fleet run



let me say this, that's before you convert LPs to isk,


Wow, that's really impressive. You gotta feel sorry for those miners earning a paltry 5m per hour. A miner has to play 200 hours just to earn that much. Really CCP just delete half the occupations on EVE. They are completely unviable now since they have no chance of earning enough to buy a Plex. Sandbox my a$$... Cry


A 9 hour day of pure PvE would be pretty draining though. Its certainly far far more demanding then mining, so of course its going to pay better.
Now I'd love to see some more depth and thus more reward for mining. But every time a suggestion thread gets started up, the "hey I like mining cos its braindead and I don't have to pay attention" players show up.

Basically when miners need to band together in groups of 10, with a diverse mix of ship types and skill allocations, and stay moderately focused on their tasks and react to changing circumstances, they can think about earning the same kind of money.
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2011-11-27 17:55:38 UTC
So, if the guy in the Orca had to actually tag the proper asteroids to maximize yield then you'd be fine with miners earning metric crap-tons of ISK?

Because the amount of "risk" in an Incursion fleet is quite minimal. Basically, don't be a moron, ask around for a decent fit, kill stuff in the proper order, and build a cookie-cutter fleet with Logi.

After doing a few of them, it's about as exciting as milking Veld rocks.

My problem with Incursions isn't that they're profitable. They ought to be profitable. They take billions in total fleet ship cost to run effectively, and that's just Vanguards.

My problem with Incursions is that, like most PvE, they're kind of boring.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2011-11-27 18:04:59 UTC


I've yet to come across any PvE that *doesn't* get boring after a few months of running it. Your best bet would be to hope for a new variant on the existing Incursions in the summer expansion. Presumably by bringing in a new pirate faction but using the same basic model.
They could also balance the bigger site rewards so you'd get to see them more often.
whoyoulookingat
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#70 - 2011-11-27 18:13:13 UTC  |  Edited by: whoyoulookingat
Daedalus Arcova wrote:

But you can go anywhere in highsec (faction standings notwithstanding), and go there without risk. Players who want to run incursions in highsec can run one, then go and do the next one as soon as it appears. Highsec incursions also get completed, so all the pilots who participated get massive LP payouts.

In nullsec, there's only one or two incursions going on at once, and nullsec is a big place when you can't just autopilot your faction battleships around with impunity. If an incursion does appear nearby, you can sometimes rustle up a small gang to go and run the Vanguard sites for an hour or so. But you have to get the right numbers and fleet composition before you all set off, which takes a good 20 minutes, then the time it takes to fly the 20 jumps out to the incursion itself, run it for an hour or so before someone has to leave, and then fly 20 jumps home again. Because you have to travel - often through hostile territory - you can't just have a waiting list of people to join your fleet when someone has to go.

NBSI rules of engagement apply, so you can't just get together with some randoms from a hostile alliance to run the bigger sites with you - they'd rather just fight you. And because it's only a few of you running low-end sites sporadically, those nullsec incursions are very rarely completed. So no shiny BPCs, and no LP.

Incursions in nullsec are more lucrative than belt or anomaly ratting, hour-for-hour, but preparing for them is also a lot of hassle, and they're certainly nowhere near the cash cow of their highsec equivalents.


And this is the fault of whom? High-sec dwellers? Nope, you complain about not being able to run the null sec incursions yet the only obstacle blocking yourself is not one put in place by CCP.. It's put in place by your "OWN" Alliances & Corps that Live out there.

The Solutions are there, staring all you null sec peeps in the face yet if your Leaders can't work together for the sake of helping out their members.. well, say no more.

But to come whining to the forums is oh so facepalm Roll

Zagdul wrote:


However, Null Sec needs a SERIOUS isk faucet increase to draw the pilots back out there and feel they aren't grinding EVE just to get a few hours of pvp in.

Last year, few hours anoms = days of pvp.

These days, Days of anoms = hours of pvp.

This needs to change FAST.


Again, there is one (well, actually, there's more than one if you put the time & effort in). Suggest all you null sec dwellers try working together for a change, just like the high sec pubbies Blink
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2011-11-27 18:42:38 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:


4. There are easier ways to make more isk. Try to find them. Hint: Isk Faucets are limited, try instead to make isk eddy and pool in your wallet.



No really there aren't.


CCP went to all the trouble of trying to get people into 0.0, then introduced these so theres absolutely NO life in 0.0 thats not bots because the money you make in Hi Sec incursions is better in every way than anything you can make in 0.0.


So, it was HEY EVERYBODY COME TO 0.0.......kills 0.0 with the introduction of a single mechanic that they've left untouched for a year.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#72 - 2011-11-27 19:27:47 UTC
First to the OP: Yes incursions payout much better per hour than missions. Some caveats have to go along with it. When people talk about returns greater than 100M they are talking about a well coordinated fleet in min-maxed faction fit composition. If that is not your situation then you are looking at considerably less. Much like flying a mission Mach is an isk/ hr improvement over flying a Mael. Now if you are in that highly profitable position how did it happen? Likely a lot of hours in sub-optimal ships flying sub-optimal fits. Because you need to rally in system have a fleet and have a site available to get there. Seriously if you lurk the incursion channels you will see Basis and Mach's trying to x up and seeing no love. Like any scarce, valuable commodity Incursions have much higher demand than supply. Such is life.

An aside to the economics 101 crowd. I'm still not up to speed with the market entire in Eve (had some time off from games in general) I am taking the inflation concerns as folk-wisdom at this point. Many resources have dropped in price. PLEX being a notable exception. Which to me indicates that what we have seen is a lot less people willing to pay a sub more than anything else. Because if you are not paying a sub you increase demand. And if you are not paying a sub you certainly are not PLEXing for iskies which drops out supply. A final aside but it is one that people need to be constantly reminded of. Blowing **** up increases inflation. Currency has value relative to the available goods on the market. When you destroy those goods then that ratio moves further in the direction of isk. If anything I think that resource destruction at this point is countering the deflation that drone poo is likely creating in capital goods.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#73 - 2011-11-27 19:34:38 UTC
Yes you can, more depending on how non-******** your fleet is.

In fact a CERTAIN PERSON I know who lost a CERTAIN STRATEGIC CRUISER because he is a BAD PILOT WHO DOES STUPID THINGS FOR NO REASON AND FLYS BADLY AND I HATE HIM replaced his multi-billion isk loss completely via incursions in about a day.
Caretaking Sunofabitcch Quigglywobbl
Fulmar's Anti-Caldari Club
#74 - 2011-11-27 19:42:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Caretaking Sunofabitcch Quigglywobbl
Cons
1. Incursions are really boring.
2. People can be dicks, and/or simply annoying.
3. Avg BTL fleet makes 60-90mil/hr (not that much considering the lack f freedom)
4. I miss nullsec epxloration.

Pro
1. ISK
2. Some poeple are actually sound , some are even girls hehe
3. <--- something or other.
4. It's a gateway to fleet management and dealing with real dudes shooting your ships.

Yes.... 150mil/hr b4 LP is completely possible. But you need to make sure your fleet comp is sorted, make sure you have a 3bil+ faction fitted ship with +5 or 6% implants. (mach, logi, vidni, nightmare, legion, abso)

Then you'll have to make sure your buddies are all content enough to get through the dreariness of it all, by at least sticking in the fleet until you cannot take anymore. (trying to get out of an incursion fleet is nearly an artform and can take some time to sort out if there are no replacements). Then keep the fleet moving, with no dilly dally/people takling over FC about wanky **** no1 cares about.

if you've taken all this, and replicated something like it practically and over the whole fleet. Then 150mil b4 LP, is totally possible and quite easy to get. So long as no unforseen circumstances should occur like (in order of liklyhood) :Site is taken/nearly finished, somebody goes afk, somebody falls asleep :), pirate dudes come and jam yer logi at critical moment.

I mean they do pay srsly quite a lot, but.... dude, way too much hassle for a lot of people to a. organize b. pretend it aint some second job.

Thar ye go.
Tore Vest
#75 - 2011-11-27 19:43:21 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Yes you can, more depending on how non-******** your fleet is.

In fact a CERTAIN PERSON I know who lost a CERTAIN STRATEGIC CRUISER because he is a BAD PILOT WHO DOES STUPID THINGS FOR NO REASON AND FLYS BADLY AND I HATE HIM replaced his multi-billion isk loss completely via incursions in about a day.

+ a few days skilling up again Blink

No troll.
grazer gin
Raving Rednecks
#76 - 2011-11-27 19:51:38 UTC
sooo many nullsec carebears whining and winging about this but forgetting ther precious sanctums,faction and officer spawns in BLUE space with free intel in local and intel channels for the next 20 systems 110% reward for 0% risk and yet they still winge about hsec

So lets remove L4s,mining,explo,incursions and everything els to nullsec and make these crybabys even richer
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2011-11-27 20:03:04 UTC
grazer gin wrote:
sooo many nullsec carebears whining and winging about this but forgetting ther precious sanctums,faction and officer spawns in BLUE space with free intel in local and intel channels for the next 20 systems 110% reward for 0% risk and yet they still winge about hsec

Hello, I'm from the Internet Police.
Due to your reckless and thoughtless use of numbers with a % after them, you are hereby restricted from using them in the future.
That is all.
Lord Zeel
Doomheim
#78 - 2011-11-27 20:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zeel
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
Tore Vest wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
NERF Incursions reward in Hi-sec


Shocked

Doesnt help..... we are still not moving to low/null Cool


You can stay in highsec and bear it up 'till your heart's content, for all I care. But highsec incursions are wrecking the economy. That's why the need nerfing - it's got nothing to do with encouraging people into nullsec (though that would be nice too).


Encouraging people into nullsec? Quit camping the effin pipes!
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2011-11-27 20:17:50 UTC
Lord Zeel wrote:


Encouraging people into nullsec? Quit camping the effin pipes!


And scamming people who try to join nullsec corps.
And killing off famous NRDS alliances.
Mr Bill Bravor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#80 - 2011-11-27 20:35:47 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:

Greedy idiots who play only for more and more ISK,
don't have any real reason to play anyway.

It's one of the lowest reasons to play,
because it's only to satisfy the lowest of all instinct.

Collect worthless stuff and feel great about it,
and worst part is, they want to do it in the easiest, risk averse way possible.

And they are ruining the game with their attitude.

I hope low life scum like that dies early.



LOL, and we get all of that and your tears also. The Irony is tasty here.