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CSM How do they work ?

First post
Author
Sandslinger
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-02-17 13:46:36 UTC
Hi

Some of you perhaps know me, I am fairly certain none of you fear me Lol

I have been considering going for CSM 3 years In a row, the first time I decided not to when I realised Two-Step was going to, last year I had too much on my plate for the coming year.

This year I am finishing my re-education and as a result I will have alot of playstyle freed up, And as we have seen WH can in fact get more then one candidate in, hence I am considering stepping up again.

I have talked to some of the x and current CSM's about how they experienced the role to be, contra their intitial beliefs o how it would be.

In my experience there are very varying opinions on this,so I would like to see if there is a general concensus.

Would love to hear the general opinion of he wormhole community on what they think a WH CSM's role is and how the CSM should go about achieving that role.

Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-02-17 14:49:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Incindir Mauser
Sandslinger wrote:
Hi

Some of you perhaps know me, I am fairly certain none of you fear me Lol

I have been considering going for CSM 3 years In a row, the first time I decided not to when I realised Two-Step was going to, last year I had too much on my plate for the coming year.

This year I am finishing my re-education and as a result I will have alot of playstyle freed up, And as we have seen WH can in fact get more then one candidate in, hence I am considering stepping up again.

I have talked to some of the x and current CSM's about how they experienced the role to be, contra their intitial beliefs o how it would be.

In my experience there are very varying opinions on this,so I would like to see if there is a general concensus.

Would love to hear the general opinion of he wormhole community on what they think a WH CSM's role is and how the CSM should go about achieving that role.



I think there is a great disparity, or perhaps misunderstanding, what players think the CSM actually does versus what the players think they can do.

With CCP's convenient NDA ballgag, I think that puts quite a damper on just what our CSM reps can talk to us about. This coupled with the fact that the minutes from the summits this year are coming out a glacial pace hampers our ability as players to guage how "well" our current CSM reps are doing.

Personally, I wish that Chitsa and James had been a little more communicative over the last year. But I don't feel like either of them have been doing a "bad" job as CSM reps.

edit: I think that in reflection on that previous statement that future CSM representative should look into a greater forum presence here. We have plenty of media tools available. Bronya does a good job with his podcast, and I think that should continue. However I think that our WH reps could use a bigger media "footprint" so to speak.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#3 - 2014-02-17 14:53:01 UTC
I always hear people saying about the CSM "fix pos's!" like that isn't on the list of things to do. It's such a waste of a voice to address something that they have heard over and over and over and over...They know POS's are bad. But I digress...

Like Incindir said though, communication is the key.

No trolling please

Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-02-17 15:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Chitsa Jason
Incindir Mauser wrote:
Sandslinger wrote:
Hi

Some of you perhaps know me, I am fairly certain none of you fear me Lol

I have been considering going for CSM 3 years In a row, the first time I decided not to when I realised Two-Step was going to, last year I had too much on my plate for the coming year.

This year I am finishing my re-education and as a result I will have alot of playstyle freed up, And as we have seen WH can in fact get more then one candidate in, hence I am considering stepping up again.

I have talked to some of the x and current CSM's about how they experienced the role to be, contra their intitial beliefs o how it would be.

In my experience there are very varying opinions on this,so I would like to see if there is a general concensus.

Would love to hear the general opinion of he wormhole community on what they think a WH CSM's role is and how the CSM should go about achieving that role.



I think there is a great disparity, or perhaps misunderstanding, what players think the CSM actually does versus what the players think they can do.

With CCP's convenient NDA ballgag, I think that puts quite a damper on just what our CSM reps can talk to us about. This coupled with the fact that the minutes from the summits this year are coming out a glacial pace hampers our ability as players to guage how "well" our current CSM reps are doing.

Personally, I wish that Chitsa and James had been a little more communicative over the last year. But I don't feel like either of them have been doing a "bad" job as CSM reps.

edit: I think that in reflection on that previous statement that future CSM representative should look into a greater forum presence here. We have plenty of media tools available. Bronya does a good job with his podcast, and I think that should continue. However I think that our WH reps could use a bigger media "footprint" so to speak.



I am sorry you feel like I was not communicative enough. Just FYI your corporation or alliance can contact me at any time for me to get on comms and speak about CSM stuff. I have been doing such chats all around the place. I am not a huge fan of the forums and I only post when I feel it is actually needed. Hence some threads asking for input from the players.

To answer the actual question. If you feel like running for wormhole CSM please contact me if you need super awesome tips. I love talking on comms or via Skype.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me

Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#5 - 2014-02-17 16:59:47 UTC
Can I run for CSM too?

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

Youtube: /asayanami

Twitter: @asayanami

wormholefundamentals.com

Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-02-17 18:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Incindir Mauser
Chitsa Jason wrote:

I am sorry you feel like I was not communicative enough. Just FYI your corporation or alliance can contact me at any time for me to get on comms and speak about CSM stuff. I have been doing such chats all around the place. I am not a huge fan of the forums and I only post when I feel it is actually needed. Hence some threads asking for input from the players.

To answer the actual question. If you feel like running for wormhole CSM please contact me if you need super awesome tips. I love talking on comms or via Skype.


Like I said. I'm not faulting you guys, or saying you and James have been doing a bad job. And to your credit the threads you have made actually got some real issues we've had addressed and in a fairly timely manner. I certainly don't feel like I wasted my vote.

I wouldn't mind taking you up on that chit-chat sometime. I would just have to herd all the ADHC cats in one channel at the same time and hold their attention long enough before it devolves into imgur meme battles. (Wulf I'm looking at you.)

Also. Asayanami Dei is not allowed to run for CSM as he needs to keep making awesome U-Boat videos. So no. You are not allowed to run for CSM.




To re-rail the thread. I think the most reasonable expectation is for someone on the CSM seat as a WH rep is to first take care of the primary job of being a go-between for us and CCP. And then, barring NDA ballgag, communicating what they can back to us.
Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#7 - 2014-02-17 18:30:35 UTC
But Mooooooom :(

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

Youtube: /asayanami

Twitter: @asayanami

wormholefundamentals.com

Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-02-17 20:21:02 UTC
I will vote for you sand if you stop destroying our fleets whenever you find us in EU tz.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-02-17 20:39:05 UTC  |  Edited by: unimatrix0030
CSM's are the go in between the players and CCP.
They are there to keep ccp from doing realy stupid stuff, no real power only their reaction is probably a good sounding board.
If the csm can keep ccp from doing realy stupid things , helps with fixing the most urgent things and helps point ccp in the right direction in the future it is a good csm.
Communication with us players is also important, helping managing expectations but also the how and why(wich is not nda'ed) things change is also important.
While chitsa did good in it james was a bit less in it(communication that is).
But basicly you just get a 3rd job from what i hear all csm members say.
The more candidates there are the bether, it helps the debate and helps find out what the w-space community wants(unless trolls appear) and fears.
Just first think of what you want for w-sapce and tell us.

No local in null sec would fix everything!

Alundil
Rolled Out
#10 - 2014-02-17 20:39:34 UTC
They work the same way that magnets do, silly.

But, communication is key. I've exchanged mails once or twice with Chitsa on various issues and he's been responsive to those. I imagine that James probably is as well (though I have no first hand knowledge of that).

Being a fully vested (and invested) member of the WH life is going to be a prerequisite for many to be considered. Knowledge about the game we play and how (because it's a bit different from other areas) is critical.

Another nice to have (imo) is someone who is more visible/communicative on the forums. In a nod to the previous statement about mails directly to CSM, they are valuable but still silos of information because very people other than the sender and possibly their corp/alliance may see/hear the question and response from the CSM. This creates redundancies in communication and repetition across multiple people/forums/interpretations might completely alter the scope or meaning of the communication in the first place.

I'm right behind you

Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-02-17 20:47:29 UTC
Alundil wrote:
They work the same way that magnets do, silly.

But, communication is key. I've exchanged mails once or twice with Chitsa on various issues and he's been responsive to those. I imagine that James probably is as well (though I have no first hand knowledge of that).

Being a fully vested (and invested) member of the WH life is going to be a prerequisite for many to be considered. Knowledge about the game we play and how (because it's a bit different from other areas) is critical.

Another nice to have (imo) is someone who is more visible/communicative on the forums. In a nod to the previous statement about mails directly to CSM, they are valuable but still silos of information because very people other than the sender and possibly their corp/alliance may see/hear the question and response from the CSM. This creates redundancies in communication and repetition across multiple people/forums/interpretations might completely alter the scope or meaning of the communication in the first place.


When I've had the odd question for James he's gotten back to me quite quickly with answers to my questions. There's no doubt in my mind that both Chitsa and James are doing their jobs in that department.

I think the takeaway here is that a CSM rep isn't a "junior developer" but more along the lines of playerbase elected focus group for CCP to bounce ideas off of. And in some cases in the past a liason to quell mass player outrage, eg; T20 and Incarna blowouts.
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#12 - 2014-02-17 23:09:54 UTC
Incindir Mauser wrote:
Alundil wrote:
They work the same way that magnets do, silly.

But, communication is key. I've exchanged mails once or twice with Chitsa on various issues and he's been responsive to those. I imagine that James probably is as well (though I have no first hand knowledge of that).

Being a fully vested (and invested) member of the WH life is going to be a prerequisite for many to be considered. Knowledge about the game we play and how (because it's a bit different from other areas) is critical.

Another nice to have (imo) is someone who is more visible/communicative on the forums. In a nod to the previous statement about mails directly to CSM, they are valuable but still silos of information because very people other than the sender and possibly their corp/alliance may see/hear the question and response from the CSM. This creates redundancies in communication and repetition across multiple people/forums/interpretations might completely alter the scope or meaning of the communication in the first place.


When I've had the odd question for James he's gotten back to me quite quickly with answers to my questions. There's no doubt in my mind that both Chitsa and James are doing their jobs in that department.

I think the takeaway here is that a CSM rep isn't a "junior developer" but more along the lines of playerbase elected focus group for CCP to bounce ideas off of. And in some cases in the past a liason to quell mass player outrage, eg; T20 and Incarna blowouts.


Now you have to just get the other 80% of wormhole player base to realise this so they stop going: OMG POS's aren't fixed yet Chitsa and James are not doing their jobs!! Therefore I'm voting for X if they run for CSM even if X has no idea what the role of CSM is.
James Arget
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
#13 - 2014-02-18 00:55:39 UTC
I'll actually say that my communication level hasn't been as good as I think it should have been. I let Chitsa take that role primarily from the WH side of things, and there have been some very social people on CSM8 such as Ali, Mike, Ripard, and Malcanis who have kept the CSM forum tags highly visible. It's an area that I want to improve upon in a second term, and I'm working on a Thing™ to get my presence more known.

As for the role of the CSM, you can all be right and all be wrong at the same time. The white paper is pretty outdated now, and the CSM is different things to different people, both players and developers. I know for a fact that I've had many significant discussions with a number of developers, but there are other developers for whom the CSM just isn't something they consider. We just try to make ourselves as helpful as possible for both players and devs, getting the most out of it where we can.

Personally, I'm sticking to my campaign platform from last year: Advocate for Wspace in terms of New Content, Inclusion, Improvement, and Safeguarding, while giving CCP the Player Perspective.

CSM 8 Representative

http://csm8.org

HTC NecoSino
Suddenly Carebears
#14 - 2014-02-18 01:33:04 UTC
James, you were pretty quick to defend the use of the ESS in WH space ;)
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#15 - 2014-02-18 01:51:26 UTC
HTC NecoSino wrote:
James, you were pretty quick to defend the use of the ESS in WH space ;)


Quote:
Disavowed.
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#16 - 2014-02-18 05:00:57 UTC
Sandslinger wrote:
Hi


Firstly, I'd like to say that it would be great to see you run for CSM this year. That said, my opinion of the CSM roles and responsibilities are as follows:

Serve as a liaison between the playerbase and CCP. That seems obvious, I'd think, but there are steps I feel you can take to ensure and help ensure success.

A) Strong communication. Dedicating time to communicating with the players via townhalls, firesides, interviews, forums, and other meetings.

B) Opening a door for communication. Either through Eve-mail, outside mail, public forums, FAQ's, QnA's, so on and so forth. But, it would be important to dedicate time to communicate back to those that ask you questions, make inquiries, or use that open door to their CSM representative.

C) If you are able, try to give feedback, within the limits of NDA, from CCP and such. If unable, please let us know that it's NDA. All feedback can be good feedback.

Basically, be active, be visible, and apply effort to communicate the community to the company and back to the community.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

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