These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Speed is life. Why flying a passive armor ship.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#1 - 2014-02-17 07:20:42 UTC
Agility and Speed is probably the more powerful weapon for a ship.
Be able to dictate the range, to escape if it is hot is the key to win a fight.

So passive armor tanked ships are nearly useless. The worst are the armor tank ships that are slower even without armor rigs and plates. When the plates and the rigs are fitted, these ships will never be able to dictate range and will never be alble to apply their damage. They are so slow that they will never be able to leave the fight before being tackled...

I think it would be cool to think about a way to make these ships useful.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#2 - 2014-02-17 07:41:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Yes, neglecting EVERY freaking fleet situation with armor buffer and logistics, where they do this thing called "tanking". If your concern is about mobility, then you're an idiot because the vast majority of slow, armor buffer boats are either focused for ranged damage projection to start out with, or have a decent number of drones (siri EVERY T1 AMARR SHIP IN THE GAME).

There are drones, lasers, points and ewar that compensate for this.
There are also ENORMOUS armor tanks where the ships that field them literally can crash entire camps on their own.
No no, that's not OP; armor ships are slow and helpless.
No no, that's something that needs to be nerfed, because armor buffer ships aren't used at all in nullsec, or any other fleet situation in the game.

Also, are you serious?
Because also, ARE YOU REALLY FREAKING SERIOUS??

Silly goons posting silly threads...
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2014-02-17 08:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
What I find most interesting about this is that there are some people who actually believe that brawling and close quarter combat are not a viable or legitimate tactics. People like this tend to have... commitment issues. Blink

Counter-proposal to the OP: nerf Snake Implant set bonuses by 50%. Twisted

How did you Veterans start?
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#4 - 2014-02-17 08:01:39 UTC
Apocalypse are able to shred Nanofitted ABCs at ranges beyond 100km which is pretty close for them because they can EASELY reach 250km with decent DPS, try to logi that.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#5 - 2014-02-17 09:48:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cardano Firesnake
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Yes, neglecting EVERY freaking fleet situation with armor buffer and logistics, where they do this thing called "tanking". If your concern is about mobility, then you're an idiot because the vast majority of slow, armor buffer boats are either focused for ranged damage projection to start out with, or have a decent number of drones (siri EVERY T1 AMARR SHIP IN THE GAME).

There are drones, lasers, points and ewar that compensate for this.
There are also ENORMOUS armor tanks where the ships that field them literally can crash entire camps on their own.
No no, that's not OP; armor ships are slow and helpless.
No no, that's something that needs to be nerfed, because armor buffer ships aren't used at all in nullsec, or any other fleet situation in the game.

Also, are you serious?
Because also, ARE YOU REALLY FREAKING SERIOUS??

Silly goons posting silly threads...


Of course as I am a Goon I can't have a point af view.
It is true that my point of view is very oriented about small gangs as I don't like much big fleets.
Of course Logistics will easily maintain armor fleet but to fight what?
Smaller gangs will just move on, probably equal fleets too and bigger fleet will soon arrive (or Bombers) and they will catch your fleet easily.

Perharps I am wrong. It doesn't give you the right to be rude though. I am not silly I have a different opinion than yours STUPID B_TCH!!! Just kidding Big smile

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#6 - 2014-02-17 09:51:42 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Apocalypse are able to shred Nanofitted ABCs at ranges beyond 100km which is pretty close for them because they can EASELY reach 250km with decent DPS, try to logi that.


Really? Well never saw such fight. Of course the Dominixes are so Overpowerful nowadays that is quite hard to see anithing else ;-)

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#7 - 2014-02-17 09:52:09 UTC
Oh and in smallscale or solo Gallente is an awesome hybrid, fit hardener and some nano rigs in your Gallente Ship und you do have a decent puffer without speed penaltys!

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#8 - 2014-02-17 09:54:30 UTC
Only flies kite in lowsec.
Is baffled by other comps.
Yes.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-02-17 10:06:54 UTC
Armour skirmishing received a boost back in the summer with the following changes:

1. nano pump and nanobot rigs no longer reduced speed, they now reduce PG instead.
2. Local repairers received a 15% boost in effectiveness.
3. Armour layering (nee honeyhcombing) sklll was introduced to reduce the negative effects of fitting plates.
4. Navy Omen
5. HAC changes

I suggest you give a dual-rep, dual-prop ishtar a try. You can't dictate range but you can ensure that when you are caught your enemy is at optimal range of your sentries, webbed and scrammed. You can also massively reduce incoming DPS by orbiting using the AB.

You can even armour-fit a vagabond quote effectively, if you can bring yourself to commit this heresy. I hear that they are quite fast...

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#10 - 2014-02-17 10:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Apocalypse are able to shred Nanofitted ABCs at ranges beyond 100km which is pretty close for them because they can EASELY reach 250km with decent DPS, try to logi that.


Really? Well never saw such fight. Of course the Dominixes are so Overpowerful nowadays that is quite hard to see anithing else ;-)


You don't see that because of as soon as you show yourself in a BS in 00, you have a group of people on your back, hunting you down and laughing at your demise. Roll

Btw, you can have very powerful armor kiters/brawlers. Just think of NOmen/Omen and Deimos these days, or the old Ruptures. Frig-wise it also works in E-War frigates. Adapt or die, isn't that the mantra of CFC? I'm surprised you don't know. Hasn't Syndicate taught you that lesson yet? Cool

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Seliah
Red Cloud Vigil
#11 - 2014-02-17 10:17:27 UTC
In very small scale pvp, a passive armored fit is probably less efficient than a nanoed ship in most situations, but that doesn't mean it's useless and underpowered. It's just a different approach to things, a different way to fight, and it applies better in some situations than others.

It'd be like saying freighters are bad because they suck for solo lowsec roaming. Gotta keep things in their context. Passive armor has its uses.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#12 - 2014-02-17 10:30:12 UTC
Seliah wrote:
In very small scale pvp, a passive armored fit is probably less efficient than a nanoed ship in most situations, but that doesn't mean it's useless and underpowered. It's just a different approach to things, a different way to fight, and it applies better in some situations than others.

It'd be like saying freighters are bad because they suck for solo lowsec roaming. Gotta keep things in their context. Passive armor has its uses.


yes, small signature radius comes to mind Cool

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#13 - 2014-02-17 10:35:31 UTC
Seliah wrote:
In very small scale pvp, a passive armored fit is probably less efficient than a nanoed ship in most situations, but that doesn't mean it's useless and underpowered. It's just a different approach to things, a different way to fight, and it applies better in some situations than others.

It'd be like saying freighters are bad because they suck for solo lowsec roaming. Gotta keep things in their context. Passive armor has its uses.


Ok you are right. But it is so sad to not be able to play an armor plate ship in solo...

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#14 - 2014-02-17 10:38:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Apocalypse are able to shred Nanofitted ABCs at ranges beyond 100km which is pretty close for them because they can EASELY reach 250km with decent DPS, try to logi that.


Really? Well never saw such fight. Of course the Dominixes are so Overpowerful nowadays that is quite hard to see anithing else ;-)


You don't see that because of as soon as you show yourself in a BS in 00, you have a group of people on your back, hunting you down and laughing at your demise. Roll


Solo BS in PvP are like armored coffins, but give them a Fleet and they turn into deadly grinding monster.

Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Seliah wrote:
In very small scale pvp, a passive armored fit is probably less efficient than a nanoed ship in most situations, but that doesn't mean it's useless and underpowered. It's just a different approach to things, a different way to fight, and it applies better in some situations than others.

It'd be like saying freighters are bad because they suck for solo lowsec roaming. Gotta keep things in their context. Passive armor has its uses.


Ok you are right. But it is so sad to not be able to play an armor plate ship in solo...


If you successfully caught them with scram and Web they are probably toast.

Protip: Use overheat for the aproach to increase speed and web/scram range!

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#15 - 2014-02-17 10:43:26 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Apocalypse are able to shred Nanofitted ABCs at ranges beyond 100km which is pretty close for them because they can EASELY reach 250km with decent DPS, try to logi that.


Really? Well never saw such fight. Of course the Dominixes are so Overpowerful nowadays that is quite hard to see anithing else ;-)


You don't see that because of as soon as you show yourself in a BS in 00, you have a group of people on your back, hunting you down and laughing at your demise. Roll


Solo BS in PvP are like armored coffins, but give them a Fleet and they turn into deadly grinding monster.


SOLO BS are just doomed. SOLO Armored BC too. But in fact BC are so slow to warp now that they are almost sure to be catched and kill in Solo. You can just hope to have fun before been destroyed. (Please no ECM :-))

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#16 - 2014-02-17 10:47:27 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
What I find most interesting about this is that there are some people who actually believe that brawling and close quarter combat are not a viable or legitimate tactics. People like this tend to have... commitment issues. Blink

Counter-proposal to the OP: nerf Snake Implant set bonuses by 50%. Twisted


But then how will I fight the blobasaurus?

I mean, nanoships probably should pay more than they do in terms of relative power for not needing to commit to a fight, but there are a decent number of options for giving cowards kiters the middle finger while flying armor brawlers, especially in small gang warfare where spreading e-war is easier.

Plus, I find people tend to over-estimate how fat armor-tanked ships are.
Mike Flynn
Energy
#17 - 2014-02-17 15:11:10 UTC
Guys please stop posting in this thread as you're just fueling the fiii......oh damnit.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#18 - 2014-02-17 15:15:18 UTC
Armor layoring was introduced to help armor tanked ships with mass and agility. I'm not seeing the issue.

If I'm flying solo armor - I'm going to set myself up somewhere that the mass isn't a huge disadvantage to me. There are advantages to knowing that you're going to have less agility than your target. Dual web, scram brutix is a great way to compensate.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-02-17 21:41:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Yes, neglecting EVERY freaking fleet situation with armor buffer and logistics, where they do this thing called "tanking". If your concern is about mobility, then you're an idiot because the vast majority of slow, armor buffer boats are either focused for ranged damage projection to start out with, or have a decent number of drones (siri EVERY T1 AMARR SHIP IN THE GAME).

There are drones, lasers, points and ewar that compensate for this.
There are also ENORMOUS armor tanks where the ships that field them literally can crash entire camps on their own.
No no, that's not OP; armor ships are slow and helpless.
No no, that's something that needs to be nerfed, because armor buffer ships aren't used at all in nullsec, or any other fleet situation in the game.

Also, are you serious?
Because also, ARE YOU REALLY FREAKING SERIOUS??

Silly goons posting silly threads...


Of course as I am a Goon I can't have a point af view.
It is true that my point of view is very oriented about small gangs as I don't like much big fleets.
Of course Logistics will easily maintain armor fleet but to fight what?
Smaller gangs will just move on, probably equal fleets too and bigger fleet will soon arrive (or Bombers) and they will catch your fleet easily.

Perharps I am wrong. It doesn't give you the right to be rude though. I am not silly I have a different opinion than yours STUPID B_TCH!!! Just kidding Big smile


So noted.

Engagement denial is just as important as winning an engagement to start out with, and you do make a legitimate point with bombers.

However,

Bombers are useful in null gangs, which does not encompass lowsec and hisec warfare, and they themselves have somewhat limited usage against capital ships, which respectively encompass a fairly large part of nullsec warfare.
Armor fleets with logi can fight just about anything they damn well please, as the same goes for a good shield fleet. The difference being an armor fleet with logistics is generally stronger for a number of reasons, not the least of which the shields getting hit alert logistics to be able to rep them. I assume you have also never experienced the fury of a vexor blob.
This does not excuse the...sheer idiocy...of dismissing one of the largest and most successful gameplay tactics in the game as incompetent due to your obvious bias towards solo/speed. If you intent was to highlight its shortcomings in a SOLO situation, you should have stated as such, instead of making broad, sweeping statements about successful gameplay mechanics the majority of players use.

Also, in the spirit of ragging on you so you understand how bad what you just did was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmxfLuNto
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#20 - 2014-02-17 21:58:39 UTC
I missed the part where the OP suggested a feature or idea.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
12Next page