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Wormholes

 
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Presubmit complaints/broken CSM campaign promises to Bane now!

First post
Author
Indo Nira
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2014-02-16 13:07:17 UTC
Proc's monocle is ugly
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#82 - 2014-02-16 13:51:36 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
[quote=Bane Nucleus][quote=Joan Greywind]
stuff


Tbh T3s are versatile enough that every single one got a dozen acceptable and a few good combinations. And in a good fight, you need the sturdiest stuff you can find with the most EWAR you can squeeze onto those ships to break hostile reps/support.
It just so happens that a majority of the people can't fly CS, so they stick to strats. Both are performing pretty identical, with CS taken 200-300% of the damage by dreads. Well, happens.

In that regard: Yes, wormhole fights look veeery similiar. It's because everyone ligured out which ships to use to make the most out of limited number of pilots, and also the reason why damnations are so yesteryear - since they are a waste of a pilot compared to an eos.

Serious wormhole fights outside of a Pulsar are fought with biggest/best guns, most of the time. Doesn't mean smartbombing BS does not exist in red giants, or enyofleets does not exist around wolf-rayets. Just that Cruiser/BC-sized is the norm in wormholes for a reason, and T3s are the most expensive and useful ship. Stick two/three times the ships value in deadspace/faction mods on there and it really becomes stronk. Unlike CS, prereqs are laughable.


I am not arguining they aren't the best ships, that is where the heart of the problem lies, they are simply the best at everything that all wh fights look the same, and there is little to no creativity. That is why this is a problem players themselves can't go around, because who is going to use a subpar ship just to make the meta more lively? Good balance and design means in a particular environment you should have many different at your disposal that fit different situations.

Wh fights are bring 60% t3 blaster proteus + brawl legions, 25-30% guardians, and 10-15% ecm t3's, if you expect an escalation have the odd geddon, bhaal and escalate with 1 archon and 2 dreads, with little to no variation. 95% of the fights happen at the hole, and fights happen only when both sides consent to the fight, there is no non consensual pvp in wh other than ganks or evictions (which brings 0 rewards to the evictor, so what is the point). I just have summarized the whole wh meta for the last 4 years in 4 sentences, don't you think things are not as good as they can be?
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2014-02-16 13:56:17 UTC
Make wh 30km large, now fights don't start at zero!
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#84 - 2014-02-16 14:06:55 UTC
I feel like I should get an NPC alt just to post in this section... Ugh

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Indo Nira
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2014-02-16 14:15:57 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
I feel like I should get an NPC alt just to post in this section... Ugh


I agree
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#86 - 2014-02-16 17:53:16 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:


Yes, but there is no in game mechanic to drive that content. I mean let us say you go in to evict someone, currently what do you get? You get a boring tower bash and not even the killmails, if you are lucky you get some tears. What wh space is turning into sadly is glorified gankers that are very apt at scanning. In null if you win you take space, in wh if you win what do you get??

The reason of the recent change to the domis stated by CCP was because it was used 5 times as much as the next ship. Can you tell me what t3 usage percentage in serious fights? I will bet it is more than 90%. All the pvp battle reports between the serious pvp entities look the same, same ships and same fittings. If you make the ship the best you can't blame people for using it, there is something wrong with the game design and balance.

This is from personal experience, I have lived in a wh for 1 year+ and I have been consistently farming it with 4-5 guys. If we take the proper precautions it is nigh impossible to get randomly ganked. Close all holes, do not warp to the static, keep analyser open and log off a dictor in site. If a new signature pops (you don't even need to dscan) align dictor, siege red, bubble while aligning, and warp dictor to new signature and bubble up. Unless a 30 t3 man gang is rage rolling on the other side there is a small chance of being killed. The only threat is log off traps, and since it is a lower wh static it is extremely difficult and effortful to get in. Don't get me wrong if a dedicated wh group wants us out, they can easily kick or gank us, but what is the in game benefit for all their effort? It is not fair to them that they don't get rewarded for killing the farmers. If they kick us out we just go settle in of the other 1000's of empty holes.

There is something wrong when you all wh fights look exactly the same for four years.


Every time I have done a tower bash, it's either been under contract, in which we got paid, or it was a "grudge bash". That means we were there with the singular purposes of removing filth from that wormhole. Now that SMA's generate killmails and ships fly out, it just adds to what you can possibly get. I would argue that limiting self destructs inside the pos shields would be a way to go, or maybe a consequence for doing so (damage/offline pos mods)

As far as T3's go, CCP has already stated that they will be making changes to them at some point in the future. I am curious to see what they are and how it will affect fleets. I personally do not enjoy flying the lumbering armor t3's, which is one reason I love living in a pulsar.

As far as safety while you bear it up, I would take the "new sig pops up automatically on your scan tab" off and force people to scan for new sigs again. This will make the bears actually have to do something to see what's going on in their system. Free intel is not how wormhole space is supposed to work.

No trolling please

Tyrant Scorn
#87 - 2014-02-16 18:49:10 UTC
Bane Nucleus wrote:
As far as safety while you bear it up, I would take the "new sig pops up automatically on your scan tab" off and force people to scan for new sigs again.


I think that other CSM's have probably mentioned this a number of times and sadly CCP still pushed it through no matter what we say. I have my doubts we will ever see the old mechanics back.
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#88 - 2014-02-16 19:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Galen Darksmith
Joan Greywind wrote:

Posting from your main is definitely a plus, but posting on your alt is not forbidden


This is EVE. Practically nothing is forbidden, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. In wormhole space, most everyone's here for the fights. Posting on an NPC alt smacks of "I'm afraid I might have to fight," hence the instant scorn and derision. It also suggests that you don't have any achievements worth noting, or that your main is already a laughingstock for whatever reason.

Then take into account the context of this particular thread. It's supposed to be a place for wormholers to share their concerns about the game to Bane...so tell me, how do we know you're actually a wormholer? How do we know you're not just some hisec bear? Or hell, a null seccer trying to get some resource put into wormholes to give their alliance more of a reason to get into wormholes? ("It needs conflict drivers guise!")

I'd like to know how you expect anyone to be able to represent you without actually knowing who you are.

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler

Tyrant Scorn
#89 - 2014-02-16 19:44:08 UTC
Galen Darksmith wrote:
I'd like to know how you expect anyone to be able to represent you without actually knowing who you are.


Voting is usually anonymous and a voter never has to give up their identity or give a valid reason for asking questions.

In regards to get behind a person for CSM. We have seen a number of changes to the game that weren't directly intended for a specific area of the game, and yet, it effected everyone. The above mentioned example of signatures no longer unknown is a big change to wormholes, it effects everything from safety to having direct access to a fight without having to work for it and brining in some excitement to the whole process. The change made by CCP wasn't aimed to effect wormholes, but it did... So it shouldn't matter if I am a wormholer or a nullseccer or a highsec carebear, game mechanics stretch out further then one single area.

The suggestion that non wormholers shouldn't be interested in a wormhole candidate is just ********.
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#90 - 2014-02-16 20:21:07 UTC
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
Galen Darksmith wrote:
I'd like to know how you expect anyone to be able to represent you without actually knowing who you are.


Voting is usually anonymous and a voter never has to give up their identity or give a valid reason for asking questions.


Again, this is EVE. You don't HAVE to do those things, but doing so sure as hell makes it easier to understand where you're coming from and what you want.

Tyrant Scorn wrote:


In regards to get behind a person for CSM. We have seen a number of changes to the game that weren't directly intended for a specific area of the game, and yet, it effected everyone. The above mentioned example of signatures no longer unknown is a big change to wormholes, it effects everything from safety to having direct access to a fight without having to work for it and brining in some excitement to the whole process. The change made by CCP wasn't aimed to effect wormholes, but it did... So it shouldn't matter if I am a wormholer or a nullseccer or a highsec carebear, game mechanics stretch out further then one single area.

The suggestion that non wormholers shouldn't be interested in a wormhole candidate is just ********.


I never said that wormholers shouldn't be interested in a wormhole candidate. Who doesn't want a POS code revamp? What we don't want is a flood of NPC alts pushing for issues that end up benefiting their specific player type, and detracting from WH players.

As a WH dweller I want a candidate who supports wormholes, not what some nullbear wants wormholes to become.

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler

unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2014-02-16 20:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: unimatrix0030
So lets get a few questions in:
If you get elected

how would you communicate with w-space people?
What do you think t3 rebalance should look like?
What should be done to get more targets eum people in w-space?
How would you fix black holes?
How would you fix poses?
Wich mobile units should w-space get?
Should w-space income be nerfed(wich t3 nerf will do)?
How would we separate troll from truth?

No local in null sec would fix everything!

Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#92 - 2014-02-16 23:49:46 UTC
Galen Darksmith wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:

Posting from your main is definitely a plus, but posting on your alt is not forbidden


This is EVE. Practically nothing is forbidden, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. In wormhole space, most everyone's here for the fights. Posting on an NPC alt smacks of "I'm afraid I might have to fight," hence the instant scorn and derision. It also suggests that you don't have any achievements worth noting, or that your main is already a laughingstock for whatever reason.

Then take into account the context of this particular thread. It's supposed to be a place for wormholers to share their concerns about the game to Bane...so tell me, how do we know you're actually a wormholer? How do we know you're not just some hisec bear? Or hell, a null seccer trying to get some resource put into wormholes to give their alliance more of a reason to get into wormholes? ("It needs conflict drivers guise!")

I'd like to know how you expect anyone to be able to represent you without actually knowing who you are.


If you really put a tiny bit of effort into it you will see this is not actually just another forum npc alt, it has corp histories and a killboard with some of the people I fly with. If you also look at the killboard you can actually see why being in an npc corp is beneficial. I have always posted with this character and it has very long posting history, so changing it now seems a bit counter productive. And what do you do when you actually got multiple character each doing their own thing? I have incurison toons, Low sec toons, null sec toons, and wh toons, so which one is technically my main? I chose this because it has the longest posting history and actually created it and not bought it in the character bazaar.

Anyways even after all this even if I had no wh experience at all (which isn't the case), it is very clear that I am at least interested in wh space, and the top single priority in my opinion is adding more content there, and bringing more people in. Why is wh the only part of space in the game not growing?

and thanks for the answers bane, you have at least 1 more content voter if that counts for anything.
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#93 - 2014-02-17 01:28:12 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
Galen Darksmith wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:

Posting from your main is definitely a plus, but posting on your alt is not forbidden


This is EVE. Practically nothing is forbidden, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. In wormhole space, most everyone's here for the fights. Posting on an NPC alt smacks of "I'm afraid I might have to fight," hence the instant scorn and derision. It also suggests that you don't have any achievements worth noting, or that your main is already a laughingstock for whatever reason.

Then take into account the context of this particular thread. It's supposed to be a place for wormholers to share their concerns about the game to Bane...so tell me, how do we know you're actually a wormholer? How do we know you're not just some hisec bear? Or hell, a null seccer trying to get some resource put into wormholes to give their alliance more of a reason to get into wormholes? ("It needs conflict drivers guise!")

I'd like to know how you expect anyone to be able to represent you without actually knowing who you are.


If you really put a tiny bit of effort into it you will see this is not actually just another forum npc alt, it has corp histories and a killboard with some of the people I fly with.


Or you could.. you know, post with your main.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe

Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#94 - 2014-02-17 02:59:57 UTC
I see corpless people.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2014-02-17 03:51:55 UTC
all this is making my head hurt. .

Bane fight for my navy comets police lights!

and my purple wormhole, Thanks.

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#96 - 2014-02-17 03:54:30 UTC
Assortment of NPC alts rambling about something... wrote:


Friss 'ne Tüte Schwänze, Du Spack!!

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe

Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#97 - 2014-02-17 06:02:28 UTC
Some should direct all these helpless souls in NPC corps to a recruitment thread...

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Winona MN
Doomheim
#98 - 2014-02-17 07:38:12 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
...if you're not going to post with your main, no one here is going to take you seriously.
If this bloke were on the CSM there would be no doubt on his highest priority issue.
The record hasn't been changed since I started playing, a few weeks ago.
Glyndi
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#99 - 2014-02-17 07:38:35 UTC
Tyrant Scorn is Red Garsk, known best for being a WH diver.

Honestly, I'd like to see ROLES get a revamp before POSs. The two go hand in hand and making roles more manageable and easy to understand would certainly help with current POS mechanics.

Not sure what the coding would be like, but allowing directors/CEOs to setup individual POS access would help things alot.

I do like the idea of being able to build destructible stations in WHs, ones you could anchor some defense mods to. The loot pinata from those would be crazy! Not to mention, repairing mods w/o paste and free hull repair :) Just have those stations consume fuel like a POS so they can be cleared easily when abandoned. **Ideas**
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#100 - 2014-02-17 08:06:08 UTC
Not sure he wouldn't post on Red then. As a wormhole diver, he has a vested interest in wh mechanics and the like. His fun relies on keeping wormhole space away from most things CCP P

No trolling please