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High Sec PvE Mission lvl 4.5?
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Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-02-14 10:30:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
'Phoons. They do it out to lock range +/- Target painter falloff. Cruises, sentries, BCUs and DDAs (and implants). The damage they lay down is gobsmacking.

The tank isnt great, but with that kind of damage going out, it (currently) need not be. Or one could use a single phoon for the damage and a golem to tank the pain and supplement the remaining DPS shortfall if incoming DPS was too much for the boats to handle.

But I digress, my point was the rat tank value for 1300-1500 isnt enough to stop a dual boxing faction BS pair.


Late edit.

Here's a sample of the comedy of a well fit (but not pimped, change out a billion, including the hull and nothing blue on it; if you shop around), well skilled TFI:

21:17:32 Notify Scourge Fury Cruise Missile deactivates as the item it was targeted at is no longer present.
21:17:31 Notify Drones engaging Pith Dismantler
21:17:31 Combat 52 from Guristas Spy - Scourge Light Missile - Hits
21:17:31 Combat 34 from Dire Pithum Abolisher - Glances Off
21:17:31 Combat 20 from Guristas Spy - Penetrates
21:17:31 Combat 11 from Guristas Spy - Glances Off
21:17:29 Combat Guristas Spy misses you completely
21:17:29 Combat 20 from Guristas Spy - Penetrates
***21:17:26 Combat 5710 to Pith Obliterator - Scourge Fury Cruise Missile - Hits
21:17:23 Combat 96 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Grazes
21:17:23 Combat 234 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Smashes
21:17:23 Combat 230 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Smashes
21:17:23 Combat 178 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Penetrates
21:17:23 Combat 129 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Glances Off
21:17:19 Combat 521 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Wrecks
21:17:19 Combat 248 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Smashes
21:17:19 Combat 152 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Hits
21:17:19 Combat 130 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Glances Off
21:17:19 Combat 125 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Glances Off
***21:17:17 Combat 5011 to Pith Obliterator - Scourge Fury Cruise Missile - Hits
21:17:12 Notify Your attempt to target Pith Obliterator failed.


9 seconds to drop a BS in WC. Give or take.
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-02-14 10:43:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme more Cynos
Just reduce the LP payout to 15-20k and put them to highsec and eliminate the blitzing by adding the need to kill all ships for mission completition.

Lv's 5 are terrible in the place they are at the moment - they are heavily blitzed and only done by a few people. This creates problems (just look at the tag prices for gallente-tags...).

This alone makes farming EA in highsec for stupid ammounts of ISK profitable.


Easiest solution I would say. And yes - I'm sure many would appreciated HS Lv 5's - me included. Incursions are definately group content, yup, but there is no reasonable small scale content for a group of 3-4 players.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2014-02-14 12:09:33 UTC
Did none of you hear me?

I said that the issue of making a mission designed for multiple people or a team not be abused by a single player is by having the acceleration gates anylize the fleet that activates and using the gate to enter the mission and adjust the spawns of NPC's accordingly to the size of the gang (possibly even the fleet makeup). CCP has not only just stated that this is possible, it's actually very easy to do.

We don't need special super tanky rats to force a minmum sized gang because the site would adjust to the number of people in fleet. It could even look at the ship types and try to figure out the best counter to the fleet available in it's spawn groups.

For example: a group of battleships without small ship support could get swamped by swarms of small ships that they struggle to hit.
Or a fleet without any kind of logistics counter would face a logi heavy enemy.
etc etc.

This would make the PvE content unpredictable and require teamwork and planning.
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
#44 - 2014-02-14 23:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Did none of you hear me?

I said that the issue of making a mission designed for multiple people or a team not be abused by a single player is by having the acceleration gates anylize the fleet that activates and using the gate to enter the mission and adjust the spawns of NPC's accordingly to the size of the gang (possibly even the fleet makeup). CCP has not only just stated that this is possible, it's actually very easy to do.

We don't need special super tanky rats to force a minmum sized gang because the site would adjust to the number of people in fleet. It could even look at the ship types and try to figure out the best counter to the fleet available in it's spawn groups.

For example: a group of battleships without small ship support could get swamped by swarms of small ships that they struggle to hit.
Or a fleet without any kind of logistics counter would face a logi heavy enemy.
etc etc.

This would make the PvE content unpredictable and require teamwork and planning.


I want to play these. With 20 AF, with HACs, with Crusers and EWAR/Logi Frigs, with every BS running missions in a hub. I would play the crap outta these.

For those of you who hate PVE and mining, you know the ones who said that they don't know why anyone does these things? The ones who don't think that PVE and Mining should be entertaining. Who is going to make your ships? who will give you the ore? The meta mods? If know one interacts with the environment, then you will not be able to PVP at all...

Unless you want to make a veldspar alt.
Scotch Whiskey
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-02-15 01:36:18 UTC
New type of agent would not need to mean easy ISK. CCP could calibrate more ships less bounty/loot/salvage. I would just want a slight challenge for a group of friends rather than easy ISK. If you have a 6 billion ISK rig that rapes RATs like they are nothing mebbe you deserve to make ISK slightly faster than the rest of us noobs. I would hope that if agent lvl 4.5 ever became part of the game they wouldnt have a significant impact on the economy. Hard to introduce something new in a player run economy without it messing with everything.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#46 - 2014-02-15 01:50:46 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Did none of you hear me?

I said that the issue of making a mission designed for multiple people or a team not be abused by a single player is by having the acceleration gates anylize the fleet that activates and using the gate to enter the mission and adjust the spawns of NPC's accordingly to the size of the gang (possibly even the fleet makeup). CCP has not only just stated that this is possible, it's actually very easy to do.

We don't need special super tanky rats to force a minmum sized gang because the site would adjust to the number of people in fleet. It could even look at the ship types and try to figure out the best counter to the fleet available in it's spawn groups.

For example: a group of battleships without small ship support could get swamped by swarms of small ships that they struggle to hit.
Or a fleet without any kind of logistics counter would face a logi heavy enemy.
etc etc.

This would make the PvE content unpredictable and require teamwork and planning.


This is an excellent idea.

Overhaul Dscan!
Sigras
Conglomo
#47 - 2014-02-15 19:46:20 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
'Phoons. They do it out to lock range +/- Target painter falloff. Cruises, sentries, BCUs and DDAs (and implants). The damage they lay down is gobsmacking.

The tank isnt great, but with that kind of damage going out, it (currently) need not be. Or one could use a single phoon for the damage and a golem to tank the pain and supplement the remaining DPS shortfall if incoming DPS was too much for the boats to handle.

But I digress, my point was the rat tank value for 1300-1500 isnt enough to stop a dual boxing faction BS pair.


Late edit.

Here's a sample of the comedy of a well fit (but not pimped, change out a billion, including the hull and nothing blue on it; if you shop around), well skilled TFI:

21:17:32 Notify Scourge Fury Cruise Missile deactivates as the item it was targeted at is no longer present.
21:17:31 Notify Drones engaging Pith Dismantler
21:17:31 Combat 52 from Guristas Spy - Scourge Light Missile - Hits
21:17:31 Combat 34 from Dire Pithum Abolisher - Glances Off
21:17:31 Combat 20 from Guristas Spy - Penetrates
21:17:31 Combat 11 from Guristas Spy - Glances Off
21:17:29 Combat Guristas Spy misses you completely
21:17:29 Combat 20 from Guristas Spy - Penetrates
***21:17:26 Combat 5710 to Pith Obliterator - Scourge Fury Cruise Missile - Hits
21:17:23 Combat 96 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Grazes
21:17:23 Combat 234 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Smashes
21:17:23 Combat 230 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Smashes
21:17:23 Combat 178 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Penetrates
21:17:23 Combat 129 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Glances Off
21:17:19 Combat 521 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Wrecks
21:17:19 Combat 248 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Smashes
21:17:19 Combat 152 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Hits
21:17:19 Combat 130 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Glances Off
21:17:19 Combat 125 to Pith Obliterator - Garde II - Glances Off
***21:17:17 Combat 5011 to Pith Obliterator - Scourge Fury Cruise Missile - Hits
21:17:12 Notify Your attempt to target Pith Obliterator failed.


9 seconds to drop a BS in WC. Give or take.

That is an impressive amount of DPS, but remember, this mission would potentially have the same amount of DPS as 3-4 level 4 missions + 3 neut towers. I dont think those things have the tank to make it work assuming that they have the target switching AI etc.
Dan Rae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-02-15 20:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dan Rae
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Did none of you hear me?

I said that the issue of making a mission designed for multiple people or a team not be abused by a single player is by having the acceleration gates anylize the fleet that activates and using the gate to enter the mission and adjust the spawns of NPC's accordingly to the size of the gang (possibly even the fleet makeup). CCP has not only just stated that this is possible, it's actually very easy to do.

We don't need special super tanky rats to force a minmum sized gang because the site would adjust to the number of people in fleet. It could even look at the ship types and try to figure out the best counter to the fleet available in it's spawn groups.

For example: a group of battleships without small ship support could get swamped by swarms of small ships that they struggle to hit.
Or a fleet without any kind of logistics counter would face a logi heavy enemy.
etc etc.

This would make the PvE content unpredictable and require teamwork and planning.


I want to play these. With 20 AF, with HACs, with Crusers and EWAR/Logi Frigs, with every BS running missions in a hub. I would play the crap outta these.

For those of you who hate PVE and mining, you know the ones who said that they don't know why anyone does these things? The ones who don't think that PVE and Mining should be entertaining. Who is going to make your ships? who will give you the ore? The meta mods? If know one interacts with the environment, then you will not be able to PVP at all...

Unless you want to make a veldspar alt.




Really really great idea. Would play the pants off these.

Edit: Would also like to add that there is no real reason to implement these purely in hi-sec, is there?
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-02-16 07:15:50 UTC
Of course not. Level 1-5 mission agents live in low sec too.

Implement level 1-4 "Corporation Mission" agents that issue missions for gangs.
Fleet warps to the acceleration gate
Acceleration gate counts each ship that uses the gate
Several groups of rats spawn that would best counter the fleet including numbers.
After wave one the system would try. Different random wave to beat the fleet. After so many waves that would match the income of an individual same level mission the waves end.

Corporation missions easy done.
DSpite Culhach
#50 - 2014-02-16 11:55:53 UTC  |  Edited by: DSpite Culhach
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Did none of you hear me?

I said that the issue of making a mission designed for multiple people or a team not be abused by a single player is by having the acceleration gates anylize the fleet that activates and using the gate to enter the mission and adjust the spawns of NPC's accordingly to the size of the gang (possibly even the fleet makeup). CCP has not only just stated that this is possible, it's actually very easy to do.

We don't need special super tanky rats to force a minmum sized gang because the site would adjust to the number of people in fleet. It could even look at the ship types and try to figure out the best counter to the fleet available in it's spawn groups.

For example: a group of battleships without small ship support could get swamped by swarms of small ships that they struggle to hit.
Or a fleet without any kind of logistics counter would face a logi heavy enemy.
etc etc.

This would make the PvE content unpredictable and require teamwork and planning.


I want to play these. With 20 AF, with HACs, with Crusers and EWAR/Logi Frigs, with every BS running missions in a hub. I would play the crap outta these.

For those of you who hate PVE and mining, you know the ones who said that they don't know why anyone does these things? The ones who don't think that PVE and Mining should be entertaining. Who is going to make your ships? who will give you the ore? The meta mods? If know one interacts with the environment, then you will not be able to PVP at all...

Unless you want to make a veldspar alt.


I would not give a rats rear hole if the AI even cheated (every so often anyway Lol) and got one of my ships blown up, as long as the fight was a little bit interesting to do with mates. The type of people that say that "you need human adversaries to have content that keeps you interested" have not done things like Vegas 6 terrorists hunts, or played Borderlands 1/2.

We don't care we are shooting AI's. It's fun with a bunch of mates because we get to laugh at screwups, cheer when we turn a deadly situation into a win, and - generally - the AI does not get on his mobile and call 10 more friends, so we get our entertainment in a nicely controlled packet.

PvE is a welcome break from other stuff. It would be great if the whole mechanics got a fresh coat of paint.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
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