EVE General Discussion

I wondered what are the thoughts of people on the current state of balance with regards to suicide ganking and concord response time. Thanks to this excellent article posted by Tippia (Concord Response Time) I have made a few calculation based upon some of the most commonly used ship to gank with.

To summarise the article, the table below lists the data of the current concord response time taken from the article.

SS = Security status of system.
RT1 = Standard concord response time.
RT2 = Concord response time if concord has been spawned elsewhere in the system.

(SS) (RT1) (RT2)

1.00 7.00 13.00
0.90 7.00 13.00
0.80 8.00 14.00
0.70 11.00 17.00
0.60 15.00 21.00
0.50 20.00 26.00

To take a typical suicide ship the catalyst as fitted below. DPS is 564, and Alpha is 1086. The total cost of such a ship is around 10 million isk.

[Catalyst, Cat Alpha]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

Using a 0.5 system the catalyst fitted above will be able to fire off 13 round before concord intervenes, 13 rounds = 14,118 damage.

So for 10 million isk, you can take out most of the haulers easily along with all their contents, along with most the mining barges barring the Skiff and Procurer.

Although, if the ganker is wanting to be even more cost efficient they can fit their ship as below, doing 330dps, and alpha at 668, with total cost at under 2 million isk.

[Catalyst, Cat Alpha copy 1]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

Again using a 0.5 system the catalyst fitted above will be able to fire off 12 rounds before concord intervenes, 12 rounds = 8,016 damage.

8,016 damage will still be enough to take out poorly fitted haulers and mining barges, although with 2 ships as fitted above they will easily take out most haulers and mining barges for the sum of around 4 million isk.

So the solution is to not use any of the basic haulers except for the ones with a greater tank, and in those which can reach around 30k ehp, do not carry more than 16 million isk's worth of items (given that the drop rate is 50%) to make it not worthwhile for the gankers.

Finally, I had a look at the Orca, and to me it doesn't seem balanced, although I was wondering what other people's opinions are on this. The Orca can reach around 230k EHP.

230k / 8,016 = 29 catalysts needed to kill it.
29 catalysts = 58 million isk.

So it would cost a suicide squad 58 million isk to take down a ship worth over 500 million isk assuming nothing in the the cargohold. There is actually nothing I can see that the Orca can do about it, as they will scram it before it has managed to warp away from the stargate. The orca could fight back, although the attacker simply needs to bring a few extra catalysts to counter that.

To me it seems that in this case the isk put on the line by the gankers, is out of balance with the amount of damage the gankers can do. I wondered what were other peoples opinions on this.

If you suicide gank, you risk to:

shut down some ways of playing further on, because people will know you as a ganker (Maybe awoxer too?) Recruitment can get bad.

You lose security status and you have to farm several hours to get it back

Everyone else in the system can shoot you, mark you as bad standing and you're an outlaw soon

Holy wall of text batman.

Solution : outsource your hauling to 3rd parties ...








Life can be so simple at times .

The same thing said of Titans by CCP is true of the inverse situation also: Isk is not a balancing factor.

Material worth has nothing to do with game balance.

He's using EFT/PYFA, which shows EHP based on uniform damage distribution, rather than in game fitting tool figures, which show EHP based upon your lowest resist (i.e. theoretically the worst position you can be in with everything running).

[EDIT] OCD typo correction!

\

Right, because shooting people in a game that gives you free guns is a sure sign of mental illness. Much more so than seeing conspiracies around every corner of that same video game.

OP lost his/her Orca and this is now a stealth "nerf destroyers, buff Orcas" thread.

or to put into perspective an anshar worth over 6bil+ can be killed quite easy in a 0.5 system by a realatively cheap gank fleet

anshar with around 350,000 ehp vs a talos gank gang putting out around 1500 dps by over heating there 8 neutron blasters II's with void loaded.

So 1500 dps is around 6000 alpha (dont sound to bad) with a 4 second cycle time so they get to fire 5 times befor concord arrives!!! 6000 x 5 = 30000 damage so to do the 350k damage to kill it you would only need 12 talos's in theory still i would still want 20 to be on the safe side.

the talos fit is less than 100 mil each so 1.2 bil to kill a 6.5 bil jump freighter that is more than likely has a great deal of value in the cargo bay

the Talos fit

Highs: 8 x Neutron Blaster cannons ii with void + heat

Mids: EMPTY

Lows: 5 x Magnetic Field Stabilizer ii

rigs EMPTY

(all numbers based on on skills lvl 5 and rounded down)

My bait orca toon has a similar fit to you, plus a reinforced bulkhead and trimarks. I'm around the 240k EHP mark, so yes, there is something to get it higher than 176k.