These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1341 - 2014-02-14 09:33:43 UTC
Fix Sov wrote:
Why would that be necessary? What makes incursions so special?
Valhalla Project obviously don't want their ability to passively do incursions taken away.
Incursions have always been the ideal isk farm.
A few knowledgeable players to guide the masses to farm a lot of isk.
With drone assist being reduced it will mean more knowledgeable players needed in each fleet.
Instead of Fc (drone bunny) and a couple of logi, it will now require Fc logi and 2 additional players who know how to follow broadcasts.
This change may mean it will take them 2 mins longer to finish tiks, which would be bad for the incursion community as it reduces their hourly income.

(sarcasm intended)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#1342 - 2014-02-14 09:51:32 UTC
How is any of that sarcasm? Derogatory mocking perhaps, but everything you said is true.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1343 - 2014-02-14 10:04:22 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
How is any of that sarcasm? Derogatory mocking perhaps, but everything you said is true.
In the reading I suppose.. It was meant to be sarcastic, yes with a little mocking thrown in.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Mario Putzo
#1344 - 2014-02-14 10:08:15 UTC
Fix Sov wrote:
Why would that be necessary? What makes incursions so special?


Why should the rest of the game be changed because of nullsec? What makes nullsec so special?
Fix Sov
#1345 - 2014-02-14 10:25:39 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Fix Sov wrote:
Why would that be necessary? What makes incursions so special?


Why should the rest of the game be changed because of nullsec? What makes nullsec so special?

It generates more income through advertising?

The current sov system is too heavily reliant on the defender saving systems by stuffing as many people as possible into the system for the final timer, instead of incentivizing attacking (and defending) multiple systems at the same time by splitting their forces into multiple fleets and using actual intelligence/strategy. This must change.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1346 - 2014-02-14 11:28:56 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Fix Sov wrote:
Why would that be necessary? What makes incursions so special?


Why should the rest of the game be changed because of nullsec? What makes nullsec so special?


The emphasis of this question is misdirected.

The positive effect of this change has equal effect on nullsec, incursions, w-space and all other forms of group combat. That positive effect is that more people are interactively controlling all aspects of combat in their ship.

This is positive because it encourages individuals to participate and improve their skills - it gives us a reason to get better at combat.

Any arguments about server performance are nonsense and can be discounted. This change will have no effect on performance.

It will have an effect on sentry alpha (to a small degree) and it will require that a few more people fly their drones.

It isn't really worth thousands of posts of insults, arguments, counter arguments and cat-calling.

The real question, if we value pilot autonomy during combat, is whether it went far enough.

Should drone assist be removed completely?

For my money, for sentries, the answer is unequivocally "yes".

I use sentries *a lot* in both PVE and PVP. I still support removal of sentry assist. It's a mechanic that reduces the positive effects of skilful ship management.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1347 - 2014-02-14 13:08:45 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

Should drone assist be removed completely?

For my money, for sentries, the answer is unequivocally "yes".

I use sentries *a lot* in both PVE and PVP. I still support removal of sentry assist. It's a mechanic that reduces the positive effects of skilful ship management.

No not completely, think of all those who multibox.. Blink

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#1348 - 2014-02-14 13:28:59 UTC
Multiboxers can use the Drones:Engage hotkey just fine. I know; I do it.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1349 - 2014-02-14 14:14:47 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Multiboxers can use the Drones:Engage hotkey just fine. I know; I do it.

Yes.. very easy.. click on 5 different instances of eve lock each target and F each time. That would be so much easier than drone assist, I would only need to make 10 clicks instead of 1.

Drones; Engage, only works on the active instance and only on locked targets. (Unless you have all your drones assigned to 1 pilot, which would be drone assist)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Dave Stark
#1350 - 2014-02-14 14:45:35 UTC
Fix Sov wrote:
Why would that be necessary? What makes incursions so special?


first post in this thread makes them special.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1351 - 2014-02-14 15:00:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
That positive effect is that more people are interactively controlling all aspects of combat in their ship.


As long as anchoring still exists, this won't be true.

Anchoring is arguably even more passive than drone assist. Not having to control your ships motion is a pretty big deal - it's harder to navigate a ship than it is to target/attack somebody.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#1352 - 2014-02-14 16:01:53 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Mario Putzo wrote:
Why should the rest of the game be changed because of nullsec? What makes nullsec so special?


The passive game play reasoning is a red herring.

I think this is all about ship balance (and therefore decrease in server load). Space needs to be created for other fleet doctrines and one way to do this is to reduce the coordinated alpha (and decrease effective dps through human error) of a large number of sentry drones. They are hoping this will create some space for other ships of the same class on the battlefield.

Does it solve the issue completely? No. The dps/ehp/range/speed advantages of the cruiser sized sentry boats will still dominate fighting in my area of operations (low sec).

And yes it's good that they are addressing this issue even if it is at a deliberate pace at small increments.
Dave Stark
#1353 - 2014-02-14 16:11:04 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Does it solve the issue completely? No. The dps/ehp/range/speed advantages of the cruiser sized sentry boats will still dominate fighting in my area of operations (low sec).


other than stopping goons whining, it hasn't actually solve any issue.
Mario Putzo
#1354 - 2014-02-14 16:34:31 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Why should the rest of the game be changed because of nullsec? What makes nullsec so special?

Does it solve the issue completely? No. The dps/ehp/range/speed advantages of the cruiser sized sentry boats will still dominate fighting in my area of operations (low sec).


But it doesn't actually change anything, and it certainly doesn't fix anything set up in CCP Rise's OP.

This fix is an appeasement fix for 8 months of CFC whining and 4 months of them deliberately (and knowingly) adding excessive server load in the use of Dominix, for the intended purposes of forcing CCP to make adjustments to a mechanic that their enemy had employed to counter their Celestis Fleet.

If it was about Balance why not include it in the balance update they just had regarding drones. Especially if this has been something CCP has been working on for a long time, and not just a kneejerk reaction because of what happened in HED, and the threat of thousands of players to quit the game because of HED, and of course the bad press CCP got because of HED.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1355 - 2014-02-14 17:14:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mournful Conciousness
Pinky Hops wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
That positive effect is that more people are interactively controlling all aspects of combat in their ship.


As long as anchoring still exists, this won't be true.

Anchoring is arguably even more passive than drone assist. Not having to control your ships motion is a pretty big deal - it's harder to navigate a ship than it is to target/attack somebody.


Anchoring is just the act of setting your ship to orbit someone else isn't it?

The precursor to removing this ability would be to introduce a more thoughtful means of controlling ship motion, and I (and I suspect the devs) have no idea where to start on that - eve is not FPS nor complete RTS, it's somewhere in between.

If you can orbit or keep at range an enemy or structure it seems arbitrarily illogical to prevent someone orbiting a friendly.

I also don't think that orbiting is as passive as drone assist. It's more akin to giving the drones a command to 'attack this guy', which is the F key.

As for multi boxers, yes when I was earning sisters LP for some blueprints i dual-boxed a dominix and EOS and slaved the EOS curators to the dominix, thus getting 2x the firepower and 30% better tank on both ships.

It would not have killed me to press ctrl-click, F on both clients...

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1356 - 2014-02-14 18:42:45 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Fix Sov wrote:
Why would that be necessary? What makes incursions so special?
Valhalla Project obviously don't want their ability to passively do incursions taken away.
Incursions have always been the ideal isk farm.
A few knowledgeable players to guide the masses to farm a lot of isk.
With drone assist being reduced it will mean more knowledgeable players needed in each fleet.
Instead of Fc (drone bunny) and a couple of logi, it will now require Fc logi and 2 additional players who know how to follow broadcasts.
This change may mean it will take them 2 mins longer to finish tiks, which would be bad for the incursion community as it reduces their hourly income.

(sarcasm intended)


50 drone limit for drone assist won't effect Vanguards at all. Your sarcasm masks the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.

DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/

EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
Dave Stark
#1357 - 2014-02-14 19:32:20 UTC
considering how great incursions are for isk/hour it's amazing so many people are demonstrating that they've never done a single one.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#1358 - 2014-02-14 20:38:42 UTC
I used to do incursions back when TEST was part of the CFC. I flew a space priest and none of this concerned me.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#1359 - 2014-02-14 23:09:37 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Why should the rest of the game be changed because of nullsec? What makes nullsec so special?

Does it solve the issue completely? No. The dps/ehp/range/speed advantages of the cruiser sized sentry boats will still dominate fighting in my area of operations (low sec).
But it doesn't actually change anything, and it certainly doesn't fix anything set up in CCP Rise's OP.

It's one small step, not the final solution. And if it didn't change anything, then they aren't really bowing down to the Goons, right? Blink
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1360 - 2014-02-15 00:53:51 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:

Does it solve the issue completely? No. The dps/ehp/range/speed advantages of the cruiser sized sentry boats will still dominate fighting in my area of operations (low sec).



still waiting on medium-sized drone ships that use medium drones.