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Thanks for the reply.

It'll be a shame if you don't get the fix in before release. Many, many of those "invalid" mails will be generated over the first few days. Once the bug gets fixed, they will become an anomaly on killboards. I wouldn't put it past some of us to make sure we get one as a "collector's killmail"

Could still approach the epic stupidity of WiS, but they still have a shot to eclipse!

Said it in another thread, but maybe CCP reads this one.

Low-sec is about piracy. Null-sec is about fight for resources/territories.

Pirates/grievers in low-sec mostly won't be bothered with building and using POCOs. Yes, pirates would get more targets to shoot, but pirating can't exist without juicy targets. And non-PvP people are already at disadvantage there due to danger from pirates and absence of null-sec class protection and resource concentration. Such players would lose more interest in low-sec, pirates would lose targets, low-sec would lose its meaning. So POCOs won't improve gameplay of low-secs.

And as concentration or resources is higher in null-sec, building POCOs in low-sec won't be as lucrative as in null-sec. So POCO builders would probably leave low-sec for null-sec.


Destroying structures/claiming resources - that's null-sec. So introducing POCOs to null-sec is probably fine, but introducing them to low-sec means replacing low-sec gameplay at least partially with null-sec's.

It is often helpful for solution analysis to consider boundary conditions. If you starting to replace NPC structures with player-owned ones in low-sec - just imagine going further, replacing NPC stations with player stations. What's that going to be? Just another null-sec. Where is low-sec idea there?

The point is: Every single game patch has to be improvement. But how destroyable COs and POCOs would improve low-sec play-style?

Consider only gameplay aspect. Increased taxes in hi-sec would stimulate people to move PI from hi- to low- and null-sec. Introducing another grab&hold element would add another objects to care about in null-sec. But what would it improve in low-sec?

Most people here complain about low-sec effects of destroyable COs, few actually think it would affect hi- and null-sec citizens much.

Introducing null-sec gameplay elements to low-sec is hardly an improvement. People willing to fight over stations able to leave for null-sec at any time. Forcing people to such fights in low-sec means limiting them.

To improve low-sec, you have to improve piracy as source of income (do not care about grievers). For that you have to make low-sec more lucrative to increase traffic. Or split core hi-sec into pieces putting low-sec systems between them, not just at the edge. POCOs would make low-sec actually less profitable place negatively affecting piracy as whole reason behind low-sec.

Unless CCP could explain POCOs as improvement for low-sec, they should reconsider introducing them outside of null-sec/wormhole space.

Why? No, really, what group is going to be driven out of lowsec and why?

Don't mind Jack. He seems to be trolling.

Hey if you lowsec people all get your act together and agree whether will HELP or HURT piracy maybe people would take your posts more seriously. Right now you're arguing at opposite angles, I guess POCOs might be balanced, eh?

Lowsec is a ghost town and you guys are fearing ANY change. Because it will hurt piracy! Because it make it so only pirates live there! AAAAAA maybe you all should just hold your turf and hang around and enjoy the new feature.

I assure you, big nullsec alliances like mine do not care about lowsec at all. Maybe we come take a tech moon now and then, it's a far different scale and POCOs won't make us think any differently about lowsec.

They don't need to.

The whole point of the tax idea is this: the people who live in a system and have control over it get to tax the "tourists". So those independents and small corps will have to pay taxes to the local PVP corps. Those PVP corps will have zero interest in doing PI themselves, so their POCOs will be mostly open. POCOs are cheap and don't need any maintenance, so I don't see why people wouldn't put them up.

The one thing that might discourage them from putting them is the pure pain that is repping them after chasing off the attackers. That's one aspect of structure fights CCP really needs to look into, as it takes much longer to repair than to destroy.


I may not be the world's expert in lowsec, but I've spent two years in there, as a -10 (and I'm on my way back down). I have made money in lowsec, both doing exploration and industry, running 4 towers for mining and reactions in my home system. I've been on the receiving end of several supercap hotdrops.

Your entire lowsec experience consists of the aforementioned mining osprey. So who is trolling?

And that makes my point invalid... how?

If you could justify POCOs as low-sec attractiveness improvement - lay down your arguments. Braggery is irrelevant.

Ok. That's still replacement of low-sec gameplay with null-sec one, but let's discuss it.

You do not get profit from POCOs just by controlling system. You get it from other people visiting your POCOs. And they do that because a) it is profitable for them to use your POCOs or b) they do not have other choice.

Right now people in low-sec engage in PI activity because they just can. It is easy to spend 15 minutes a day to get some profit on the side if you use planets in your home system or 1-2 jumps away tops. And it costs like nothing in NPC CO taxes. With destroyable COs you get:
1) more jumps to do as not all planets are going to have POCOs
2) higher taxes
As a result, low-sec PI is going to become less interesting than it is now.

About not having choice. As I see it, people engage in PI because of:
1) direct profit from selling goods
2) indirect profit from fueling their own POSes with self-made cheap and close fuel
3) T2/T3 manufacturing of theirs requiring PI goods

POCOs are going to make PI less profitable and some PIers would either switch to other activities or leave low-sec. People owning (and protecting) POSes should be able to own and protect their own POCOs, though it is going to be more annoying for them. T2/T3 manufacturers are either able to substitute self-made PI goods with market-obtainable or already use null-sec as base because of higher resource concentration there.
Do not see steady flow of POCO customers here either.

Not saying POCOs are going to destroy low-sec PI completely. Can't predict how people would adapt. But such change would decrease low-sec PI attractiveness compared to current one.

P.S. Doubt that POCOs are going to be profitable in null-sec. People won't be able to make more money on their blues than they already do, non-blues would be denied access to POCOs anyway and whole POCO-thing would be most likely just another cash-sink for rich corps there. But at least that would be extension for gameplay already in place (grab&hold playstyle) and economy might require cash-sink.