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Consent versus Acknowledgment

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Shrewd Tsero
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-02-13 17:38:33 UTC
After reading lots of posts on the forums and from discussions in game, I'm continually bothered by variantions on the phrase "By playing/undocking/mining/etc. in this game you consent to PvP." The phrase just irks me. No, I'm not complaining about PvP in Eve. Getting butthurt about someone blowing you to bits in Eve is like getting pissed at being wet after walking out into the rain that you were looking at through your windows. It's one of the fundamental aspects of the game. But can you really say that by undocking in Eve you "consent" to PvP? Or do you simply acknowledge that it could happen? Quick dictionary search gives me:

acknowledge
verb (used with object), ac·knowl·edged, ac·knowl·edg·ing.
1. to admit to be real or true; recognize the existence, truth, or fact of: to acknowledge one's mistakes.

consent
verb (used without object)
1. to permit, approve, or agree; comply or yield (often followed by to or an infinitive): He consented to the proposal. We asked her permission, and she consented.

Seems more like acknowledgement than consent to me. Not a big deal, but I know a lot of people get stuck on that word consent (including me) whenever it comes up.

It is good to have substance to one's existence.  But in the absence of substance, one can do much yet with style.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#2 - 2014-02-13 17:39:25 UTC
:popcorn:

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#3 - 2014-02-13 17:40:52 UTC
Proper trolls like the word consent because it fits into the "you were asking for it for going out in that slutty ship fit" paradigm.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2014-02-13 17:43:36 UTC
Shrewd Tsero wrote:
But can you really say that by undocking in Eve you "consent" to PvP?
Yes.
By undocking, you permit people to PvP you and you agree to fly around in a full-PvP environment.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#5 - 2014-02-13 17:45:30 UTC
Shrewd Tsero wrote:
After reading lots of posts on the forums and from discussions in game, I'm continually bothered by variantions on the phrase "By playing/undocking/mining/etc. in this game you consent to PvP." The phrase just irks me. No, I'm not complaining about PvP in Eve. Getting butthurt about someone blowing you to bits in Eve is like getting pissed at being wet after walking out into the rain that you were looking at through your windows. It's one of the fundamental aspects of the game. But can you really say that by undocking in Eve you "consent" to PvP? Or do you simply acknowledge that it could happen? Quick dictionary search gives me:

acknowledge
verb (used with object), ac·knowl·edged, ac·knowl·edg·ing.
1. to admit to be real or true; recognize the existence, truth, or fact of: to acknowledge one's mistakes.

consent
verb (used without object)
1. to permit, approve, or agree; comply or yield (often followed by to or an infinitive): He consented to the proposal. We asked her permission, and she consented.

Seems more like acknowledgement than consent to me. Not a big deal, but I know a lot of people get stuck on that word consent (including me) whenever it comes up.


Indeed. I have no idea where this consent business got started. Nor the "permission" business.

But, upon undocking, I have acknowledged that there is a chance of being blown up. Fine. But absolutely nobody has my consent or "permission" to do so. But they are welcome to try.

When I take my car out of the garage in the morning, I acknowledge that I may actually meat a horrible death by fire.

But absolutely nobody has my consent or permission to do so.

Idiotic rhetorical games by folks who don't really know anything and want to harass new players with "scary information". Such BS nonsense.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
djentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#6 - 2014-02-13 17:45:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Yes.
By undocking, you permit people to PvP you and you agree to fly around in a full-PvP environment.


Yup.

This is how the game works, people.
djentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#7 - 2014-02-13 17:47:14 UTC
I think we are kinda splitting hairs here.

I don't think anyone really cares about the different between "consent versus acknowledgment" and can all agree on "By undocking, you are placing your ship in a position where it may be fired on."

Simple. Nothing to see here. Move on :)
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-02-13 17:47:58 UTC
Crap, was there a madfellows meeting and I wasn't notified? Quick let me get my tinfoil hat.

Honor is a fools prize. [I]Glory is of no use to the dead.[/I]

Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#9 - 2014-02-13 17:56:18 UTC
Shrewd Tsero wrote:
Seems more like acknowledgement than consent to me. Not a big deal, but I know a lot of people get stuck on that word consent (including me) whenever it comes up.


You're right, however there is a reason people choose to use the word "consent" in this context. Players who describe undocking as "consent" are intentionally misusing the word in order to communicate clearly an important idea. That idea is that consent is never a requirement for pvp, and players should not be surprised or feel wronged by CCP if pvp happens to them without their consent. If you can equate undocking with consent, that eliminates the basis for outrage.

The argument can of course be made that by playing the game, you are consenting to whatever may happen in the game. You don't have to like it to consent to it.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#10 - 2014-02-13 18:03:45 UTC
djentropy Ovaert wrote:
I think we are kinda splitting hairs here.

I don't think anyone really cares about the different between "consent versus acknowledgment" and can all agree on "By undocking, you are placing your ship in a position where it may be fired on."

Simple. Nothing to see here. Move on :)


I don't think it is splitting hairs. The distinction is critical. "Consent" is a word used by antisocials to deflect responsibility for their actions from themselves, and allows them to squarely place it on the victim. "Acknowledgement" does not allow them the same privilege. So they will fight OP's assertion because if they cannot cleanse away responsibility for their misdeeds with "consent" they will be forced to admit they truely are assholes. And, they know once that happens, the legitimacy of everything they do disappears. They will no longer be cogs in a pvp machine. Instead they will be like any garden variety thug, beating up on others for the pleasure of hurting someone, "because they can."
Chad Ramsbottom
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-02-13 18:09:19 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
djentropy Ovaert wrote:
I think we are kinda splitting hairs here.

I don't think anyone really cares about the different between "consent versus acknowledgment" and can all agree on "By undocking, you are placing your ship in a position where it may be fired on."

Simple. Nothing to see here. Move on :)


I don't think it is splitting hairs. The distinction is critical. "Consent" is a word used by antisocials to deflect responsibility for their actions from themselves, and allows them to squarely place it on the victim. "Acknowledgement" does not allow them the same privilege. So they will fight OP's assertion because if they cannot cleanse away responsibility for their misdeeds with "consent" they will be forced to admit they truely are assholes. And, they know once that happens, the legitimacy of everything they do disappears. They will no longer be cogs in a pvp machine. Instead they will be like any garden variety thug, beating up on others for the pleasure of hurting someone, "because they can."


Someone's mad that PVP exists.

http://worldofwarcraft.com/

mfw your bottom
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#12 - 2014-02-13 18:09:46 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
I don't think it is splitting hairs. The distinction is critical. "Consent" is a word used by antisocials to deflect responsibility for their actions from themselves, and allows them to squarely place it on the victim. "Acknowledgement" does not allow them the same privilege. So they will fight OP's assertion because if they cannot cleanse away responsibility for their misdeeds with "consent" they will be forced to admit they truely are assholes. And, they know once that happens, the legitimacy of everything they do disappears. They will no longer be cogs in a pvp machine. Instead they will be like any garden variety thug, beating up on others for the pleasure of hurting someone, "because they can."


Don't you think that you're taking this game a bit too seriously?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#13 - 2014-02-13 18:10:20 UTC
Shizuken wrote:

They will no longer be cogs in a pvp machine. Instead they will be like any garden variety thug, beating up on others for the pleasure of hurting someone, "because they can."


This is splitting hairs. Also, I think you meant to post this in the "Eve players are psychopaths" thread, because I can't filter out the point you're trying to make from the laughable value judgements.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Notorious Fellon
#14 - 2014-02-13 18:11:29 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
djentropy Ovaert wrote:
I think we are kinda splitting hairs here.

I don't think anyone really cares about the different between "consent versus acknowledgment" and can all agree on "By undocking, you are placing your ship in a position where it may be fired on."

Simple. Nothing to see here. Move on :)


I don't think it is splitting hairs. The distinction is critical. "Consent" is a word used by antisocials to deflect responsibility for their actions from themselves, and allows them to squarely place it on the victim. "Acknowledgement" does not allow them the same privilege. So they will fight OP's assertion because if they cannot cleanse away responsibility for their misdeeds with "consent" they will be forced to admit they truely are assholes. And, they know once that happens, the legitimacy of everything they do disappears. They will no longer be cogs in a pvp machine. Instead they will be like any garden variety thug, beating up on others for the pleasure of hurting someone, "because they can."


You will not likely *ever* get any clown on these boards to admit they are "assholes" as you put it. The forum community is allowed to run rampant and treat everyone else like trash. You are trying to argue intellectually with a group of people who get their joy from other people's tears.

Block them and move on. There are good players *in* the game. They are just hard to find. The forum is not the place to find them. Stop banging your head on the wall.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#15 - 2014-02-13 18:13:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Implied consent is probably more accurate than consent.

implied consent
n. consent when surrounding circumstances exist which would lead a reasonable person to believe that this consent had been given, although no direct, express or explicit words of agreement had been uttered.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-02-13 18:13:34 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

...
Indeed. I have no idea where this consent business got started. Nor the "permission" business.

I do.

Would you like to know more?
djentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#17 - 2014-02-13 18:14:25 UTC
Shizuken wrote:


I don't think it is splitting hairs. The distinction is critical. "Consent" is a word used by antisocials to deflect responsibility for their actions from themselves, and allows them to squarely place it on the victim. "Acknowledgement" does not allow them the same privilege. So they will fight OP's assertion because if they cannot cleanse away responsibility for their misdeeds with "consent" they will be forced to admit they truely are assholes. And, they know once that happens, the legitimacy of everything they do disappears. They will no longer be cogs in a pvp machine. Instead they will be like any garden variety thug, beating up on others for the pleasure of hurting someone, "because they can."


ummm, wut?

This is Eve. It's a game about spaceships and players making other spaceships go boom.

I think you're overthinking things and taking things a little too seriously.
stoicfaux
#18 - 2014-02-13 18:14:35 UTC
Do you acknowledge that CCP takes $14.95 every month from you? Or do you consent to letting CCP take $14.95 every month from you?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2014-02-13 18:16:49 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
I don't think it is splitting hairs. The distinction is critical. "Consent" is a word used by antisocials to deflect responsibility for their actions from themselves, and allows them to squarely place it on the victim.
Wrong way around. “Consent” is used by people who actually play the game as it is, rather than as they wish it were, to signify the fact that the self-proclaimed victim is responsible for their own safety. They are in full control over whether they can be attacked or not, and have willingly put themselves in a position where it is possible and occasionally even probable.

It's used to demonstrate the ignorance of all kinds of “I wasn't doing anything, so why did they attack?” attempts at denying one's own involvement and role in what transpires. The whole “I wasn't doing anything” relies on the incorrect (for EVE) notion that attacks only happens (or at least only should happen) by consent, and the obvious counter to this is that they did consent to being attacked: after all, they undocked.
Shrewd Tsero
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-02-13 18:17:02 UTC
Batelle wrote:
You're right, however there is a reason people choose to use the word "consent" in this context. Players who describe undocking as "consent" are intentionally misusing the word in order to communicate clearly an important idea. That idea is that consent is never a requirement for pvp, and players should not be surprised or feel wronged by CCP if pvp happens to them without their consent. If you can equate undocking with consent, that eliminates the basis for outrage.


This I can get behind.

It's all probably just trivial semantics anyway to try and make a distinction, but I know that using that phrase riles people up (as evidenced by some of the responses here). Personally, I expect to be engaged whenever I fly about in my ship (a lesson I leared the hard way). I can, however, appreciate when it pisses someone off. Telling them afterward that "they asked for it" just seems douchlike.

It is good to have substance to one's existence.  But in the absence of substance, one can do much yet with style.
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