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How to you move stuff without getting blown up?

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#21 - 2014-02-12 06:47:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
High to high, just never put more than 800m of stuff in a freighter and you aren't economically worth ganking. ("For the lulz" ganks are rare as freighter popping isn't cheap). If you have to move high value compact items, use a covops frigate, an interceptor, or something similarly agile. (I often fly ~1b loads around in Interceptors and there's not many systems I would not take things to).

It's the high value bulky items, like Marauder or pirate BS hulls, that are tricky to haul. For those, the best bet is usually brick tanking them, and piloting them - potentially with an alt in a ship that can seriously disrupt ganks (ECM Falcon, bump Machariel, logistics cruiser, in-corp friendly web, etc). Use Jump Freighters outside highsec.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#22 - 2014-02-12 07:50:30 UTC
1- Don't autopilot.

2- Use your alts to web

3- Don't fly what you can't afford to lose

4- If you can't afford to lose it but must move it, use Push X, in my experience faster, cheaper, and has more options than redfrog (also they send you mails on progress of contract).

5- If you are moving expensive battleships, fit bulkheads and damage control, will make the prospects of a gank highly unlikely.

6- All the main, heavy gankers in EVE amount to less than 200-300 players and less than 5 corps, with like 20 of them super active, and they camp the same systems. Add them to your watchlist and try to avoid those systems (niarga, deltolle, balle, udema etc...).

7- Dscan if you see, machariel sitting on gate, vexor, catalysts, thoraxes, brutixes, taloses on dscan it is too hot to jump.

8- If you make yourself unprofitable to gank, then the probability of you getting ganked is really low.

9- Don't move purple or gold **** unless you know what you are doing.

10- Don't move things at primetime

11- Use your alt to trigger concord on gate with a noobship.

Highsec is safe, and those gankers are the only thing making it interesting.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-02-12 09:21:06 UTC
Batelle wrote:




Edit: Shrink Wrap or Plastic Wrap is a known exploit that CCP has sanctioned (meaning its not an exploit). Basically any container inside a courier contract cannot be scanned. That container can be an actual container, or it can be another courier contract. That this mechanic still exists can either be taken as evidence of CCPs supreme laziness, or it can be taken as tacit acknowledgement that freighters are worthless but they don't want to nerf ganking.


Would be funny if they gave freighters 2 low slots and 3 rig slots, made an exception in its description to prevent cargo hold expansion, and added hull trimark riggs. Then we could fit DCU II and a hull bulwark whatever its called, and the hull trimarks. Would take a crap ton of ships to gank a freighter with that much hull at 60% resists.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-02-12 10:06:09 UTC
hop in a frigate with an MWD and undock from jita 4-4, turn the MWD on and burn a minimum of 300Km (preferably go off grid entirely) in a straight line, then create a bookmark.

When you undock, the first thing you do is warp to that bookmark. Because you're already pointing at it and moving at full speed, you'll warp instantly out of undock invulnerability. No instapop possible.

If you're moving high-value, low-volume goods, always invest in a blockade runner. They're agile, they can fit a covops cloak so you can just disappear and not be followed, and best of all they're immune to cargo scanners so nobody knows if it's worth suicide-ganking you if you do somehow screw up and give them the opportunity.

For my part, I sold my freighter after my bounty passed 3 billion. No point flying them any longer, I'd pretty much automatically be a loot pinata.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#25 - 2014-02-12 14:03:04 UTC
Tuttomenui II wrote:
Batelle wrote:




Edit: Shrink Wrap or Plastic Wrap is a known exploit that CCP has sanctioned (meaning its not an exploit). Basically any container inside a courier contract cannot be scanned. That container can be an actual container, or it can be another courier contract. That this mechanic still exists can either be taken as evidence of CCPs supreme laziness, or it can be taken as tacit acknowledgement that freighters are worthless but they don't want to nerf ganking.


Would be funny if they gave freighters 2 low slots and 3 rig slots, made an exception in its description to prevent cargo hold expansion, and added hull trimark riggs. Then we could fit DCU II and a hull bulwark whatever its called, and the hull trimarks. Would take a crap ton of ships to gank a freighter with that much hull at 60% resists.


Your sense of humor sux
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2014-02-12 14:20:41 UTC
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#27 - 2014-02-12 15:42:04 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:


Because he's not as new as he says he is. The only way is with a RR alt, if I'm not mistaken.




He's probably not telling the truth, either. I've moved expensive stuff around high sec quite often. Just have to make sure there's no wardec active. I usually try to pile no more than a billion or so in a freighter. Autopilot is a no no the more valuable the cargo. When I move something really valuable and small, I do it in a blockade runner. When I move something valuable and large, I bring a corp buddie to web myself off the gates.

Oh, and I have a jump freighter too, for that "other" stuff.

Seriously moving stuff around the EVE universe is just a matter of organization and time. I'm pretty sure it's only the ones that deserve it who get ganked.

regarding the frig, it doesn't surprise me, it happened to me once that one of my toon, being brand new (was less than a day old, with just implants and an empty shuttle, was insta killed 1 jump from jitaShocked

just random violence i guess...not so common tho, i move it around quite often, yet this only happened once..... but still, it can happen
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#28 - 2014-02-12 15:46:03 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
baltec1 wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=21866036


Seems OP didn't cloak.


wrong, there are plenty ways to catch this in low, especially with a machariel.

1- when undocking, no insta from transport, insta pop it while he align
2- when undocking, bump him then kill it
3- when docking, if no docking BM / bad BM, can be far enought to give you time for killing it, whether he is cloacked or not

and these are just 3 ways that can explain this specific kill.....

there are plenty other ways, like smartbomb at dock / undock etc....

and regarding undock, it's pretty easy to prevent one from clocking when undocking, use cans, follow it with a frig at less than 2km.....
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2014-02-12 19:21:23 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=21866036


Seems OP didn't cloak.


wrong, there are plenty ways to catch this in low, especially with a machariel.

1- when undocking, no insta from transport, insta pop it while he align
2- when undocking, bump him then kill it
3- when docking, if no docking BM / bad BM, can be far enought to give you time for killing it, whether he is cloacked or not

and these are just 3 ways that can explain this specific kill.....

there are plenty other ways, like smartbomb at dock / undock etc....

and regarding undock, it's pretty easy to prevent one from clocking when undocking, use cans, follow it with a frig at less than 2km.....


Id guess death on undock too. Easily avoided with an insta warp safe.


The real mystery here is why the thread is about freighters.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#30 - 2014-02-12 20:29:56 UTC
Yeah things have changed.

I won't even go in a pod to Jita 4-4 because I'm not sure if a ship scanner will reveal implants or not.

(Be kinda great if they did I mean, I'm not into the ganking play style but c'mon you gotta consider it)

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#31 - 2014-02-12 20:59:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
The new guy in our Corp Hauled over 1.5 bil in an orca from Dodixie to amarr last night, made it, because lol **** the cardinal rule!
Edit: we did warn him not to.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#32 - 2014-02-12 21:03:01 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
High to high, just never put more than 800m of stuff in a freighter and you aren't economically worth ganking. ("For the lulz" ganks are rare as freighter popping isn't cheap). If you have to move high value compact items, use a covops frigate, an interceptor, or something similarly agile. (I often fly ~1b loads around in Interceptors and there's not many systems I would not take things to).


While its not cheap, if all the targets have 1bn in their holds, you can get a lot of lolz out before running into money issues.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#33 - 2014-02-12 21:41:25 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
High to high, just never put more than 800m of stuff in a freighter and you aren't economically worth ganking. ("For the lulz" ganks are rare as freighter popping isn't cheap). If you have to move high value compact items, use a covops frigate, an interceptor, or something similarly agile. (I often fly ~1b loads around in Interceptors and there's not many systems I would not take things to).


While its not cheap, if all the targets have 1bn in their holds, you can get a lot of lolz out before running into money issues.




There's a kind of math to this. But I could never put my finger on an actual equation.


I think it would be "chance to get ganked" = cost of ship and cargo in ISK / cost of destroying it

ISK is NOT in how much earned potentially but how much destroyed - some players are simply trying to green up their KB (probably to make up for actual PVP losses) rather than make take-home ISK from the gank.

In ballpark measurements, if you have a ship with say 1 BIL worth of ISK and it would take a few destroyers to kill it (say around 10 Million worth of cats or thrashers) than the chances of being ganked is 1000000000 / 10000000 = 100

But again, I can't get a handle on actual math. if that was a percentage, and if you are in the right place, like Eudema, I'd say it could be a percentage.

If you have say a Hoarder with say 100 Million worth of ISK, it's 10 to 1 for ISK to cost-of-gank ratio. It can still happen. But if the Hoarder was tanked enough that it would take a 70 million ISK Tier 3 cruiser (possibly) or a whole lot of cats - then that's only 30 million ISK.

It came from CCP that suicide ganking is NOT meant to be profitable. That should be kept in mind - but they only looked at two aspects:
- they didn't account for killboard stats
- they didn't account for the idiot factor whereby someone will put heinous amount of value in a cardboard ship.

This is why I would Omnitank the heck out of a T1 hauling ship but still NOT going putting more than 150 million ISK into it. And I'm still going to do MWD-Cloak-Align with it, and I would still stay out of .5 systems at prime time too - basically treat it like lowsec.

Knowing the alpha damage of the common gank ships helps though - and tactical shield manipulation helps too.

So, what are the "most ideal alpha" damages done by the most common gank fittings? This is something that should be passed around like mission runners pass around the PVe sheet (what to tank - what damage to deal).



Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#34 - 2014-02-13 00:05:16 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
hop in a frigate with an MWD and undock from jita 4-4, turn the MWD on and burn a minimum of 300Km (preferably go off grid entirely) in a straight line, then create a bookmark.

When you undock, the first thing you do is warp to that bookmark. Because you're already pointing at it and moving at full speed, you'll warp instantly out of undock invulnerability. No instapop possible.

No need to do that. Planet 4 Moon 1 is aligned with the undock of Jita 4-4. Warp to moon 1 and make a bookmark in-warp.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#35 - 2014-02-13 01:19:56 UTC
Dear OP:

1) Don't just use Red Frog, join Red Frog. You've got a freighter, you're in a neutral corp, you're set to go! Their knowledge and resources will no doubt help out in the future.

2) Jita is bad, m'kay?. Try Rens, Doodixie, Amarr, or any of the smaller hubs out there. You'll make a lot more ISK with a lot less risk. Gankers barely have enough brain cells to push the F1 on their template Catalysts, let alone think outside their little "Jita bubble." Just don't go to Hek... that place is even worse.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#36 - 2014-02-13 09:52:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=21866036


Seems OP didn't cloak.


wrong, there are plenty ways to catch this in low, especially with a machariel.

1- when undocking, no insta from transport, insta pop it while he align
2- when undocking, bump him then kill it
3- when docking, if no docking BM / bad BM, can be far enought to give you time for killing it, whether he is cloacked or not

and these are just 3 ways that can explain this specific kill.....

there are plenty other ways, like smartbomb at dock / undock etc....

and regarding undock, it's pretty easy to prevent one from clocking when undocking, use cans, follow it with a frig at less than 2km.....


Id guess death on undock too. Easily avoided with an insta warp safe.


The real mystery here is why the thread is about freighters.

killing him while he dock is also pretty easy on some station, i know a few wich land you +-2km when you warp0 to em from a specific gate, and it's enought time for a ship to go boom, even with something else than arty
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#37 - 2014-02-13 09:55:26 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Dear OP:

1) Don't just use Red Frog, join Red Frog. You've got a freighter, you're in a neutral corp, you're set to go! Their knowledge and resources will no doubt help out in the future.

2) Jita is bad, m'kay?. Try Rens, Doodixie, Amarr, or any of the smaller hubs out there. You'll make a lot more ISK with a lot less risk. Gankers barely have enough brain cells to push the F1 on their template Catalysts, let alone think outside their little "Jita bubble." Just don't go to Hek... that place is even worse.

pretty easy to get stuff in and out from jita, provided you know your thing.

you just need to be clever and aware of game mechanics.

now, it is also a very valid solution to use other hubs, especially amarr which holds mostly the same things, with a price +- the same, and it's not far from jita anyway
ISD Cura Ursus
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#38 - 2014-04-20 18:51:49 UTC
1 post removed for trolling.

ISD Cura Ursus

Lieutenant Commander

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#39 - 2014-04-20 19:01:29 UTC
You need more bookmarks.
At least one, but preferably two for anything you intend to warp to and another one for anything you want to undock from.
Solecist Project
#40 - 2014-04-20 19:20:52 UTC
Gogela wrote:
With a Tornado you can get a volley over 13k. That means even if concord is sitting on a 1.0 sec gate, there's a good chance the T1 industrial is going to pop.

...just sayin'.

I wish I had started highsec ganking years and years ago... Cry

Really easy to counter with a toon that's a few hours old
and keeps looking out one jump ahead. :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
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