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Eve University Offensive Combat Operations in Placid Region
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Anslo
Scope Works
#21 - 2014-02-12 14:58:00 UTC
What times are E-UNI most active in that area?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#22 - 2014-02-12 19:58:25 UTC
Desra Mascani wrote:
Ms Dusette... That Slicer killed by an Exequror's medium drones do raise questions about the quality of Eve Uni students quite strongly.

I haven't gone researching any combat records surrounding this so have no idea what Slicer you're talkin' about Mr Mascani, nor do I understand what that has to do with cuisses de grenouille or the price of toasters.

The mere fact these kids are giving the Gallente a headache, let alone brave enough to fight opponents who're apparently above their weight, is worthy of praise.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Nyjil Lizaru
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-02-12 20:27:03 UTC
This current state of heightened aggression between my alma mater and my current brothers-in-arms causes me some distress. EVE University has frequently faced calls from within (and from many alumni) to be full NBSI, however until this new announcement takes effect, when in low-sec they are only permitted to fire first upon criminals.

This has hobbled the training of the eager young people who flock to their hallowed halls and has led to some non-optimal habits. While I do admit to concern about the interference that they may have upon the war effort; I think that so long as they do not appear to favor one side over the other, then I am glad that they are embarking on a course to better educate their students for the harsh realities that exist in our universe.

Have said that, I must confess to some confusion regarding your original NAP: were you led to believe that the entire FDU would be blue? We in the militia function frequently in fleets with multiple different corporations represented, many with much different sets of 'blues'. The total blame for the confusion that this creates surely can not be laid at the feet of such new capsuleers, can it?

Nyjil's corollary to Malcanis' Law:   "Any attempt by CCP to smooth the learning curve of EVE Online will be carried out via the addition of extra factors and 'features' such that there is a net increase in complexity."
Bairfhionn Isu
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
#24 - 2014-02-12 20:31:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Bairfhionn Isu
With the start of the Empyrean Age more than nearly 11 years ago the universe was flooded with new capsuleers. Rules were set in place by CONCORD and other entities.

With the new age came new problems. Capsuleers were uneducated and didn't find a place in this universe and soon returned back to their worlds or even terminated their last clone.
The authorities obviously failed to educated the capsuleers.
Yes, the empires created their own educational corporations but they never really took care of them. There are some dedicated agents who help new capsuleers but those barely scratch the surface.

As a reaction EVE University was founded in YC 106 and is nearing its 10th birthday (on March 15th). It was founded to give new Capsuleers a jump start.

The University doesn't care what their students do after they leave. They can become pirates, traders or even politicians. It is totally up to the student. The University is striving to provide the best education possible. Since YC 115 every capsuleer can take part in classes without even being a student!
Fast forward to YC 116. Times have changed. Thanks to the fact that you can now pay CONCORD to repair your Security Status has made things quite different in Low Sec.

In the beginning the University was NRDS in Low- and Null Security Space. After some years the leadership of the University has changed its stance in Null to NBSI, mainly because nearly everyone did it. The students had to wait to be shot at to retaliate which led to losses that could have been avoided.
Same is now happening in Low Sec. We can... no, we WILL not allow that our students are at a disadvantage.

If the Empires or their Militias had taken care of Low Security Space and retaliated against the pirates and provide safe passage for everyone venturing through, it would not have come to this.
We do not differenciate between Gallente, Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar or Pirate. Everyone neutral or below is considered a threat to our students from March 15th on for the duration of a month.

Be aware that this is just a test run. We do not want to become pirates. We do not want to camp all the star gates in Low Sec. We will not take ransoms or take part in any war.


The University has a open Non-Aggression-Pact-Policy. Everyone is free to contact our diplomats to ask for positive standings. We always grant the standing.
Or you don't do it. if you fail to fight against a bunch of unexperienced Capsuleers maybe you don't deserve to sit in your ship.

Bairfhionn Isu
Director of Education
Sofia Roseburn
Verdant Inquiries
#25 - 2014-02-12 20:46:59 UTC
Congratulations on completely avoiding the point Soter has made though. You've clarified your stance for the future, but he is talking about the present.

March 15th hasn't come around yet, and whilst I imagine some people will be applauding you for the change in your tuition you've not done a thing to explain why your test run appears to have started a month (ish) early.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#26 - 2014-02-12 20:48:54 UTC
Bairfhionn Isu wrote:
With the start of the Empyrean Age more than nearly 11 years ago the universe was flooded with new capsuleers. Rules were set in place by CONCORD and other entities.

With the new age came new problems. Capsuleers were uneducated and didn't find a place in this universe and soon returned back to their worlds or even terminated their last clone.
The authorities obviously failed to educated the capsuleers.
Yes, the empires created their own educational corporations but they never really took care of them. There are some dedicated agents who help new capsuleers but those barely scratch the surface.

As a reaction EVE University was founded in YC 106 and is nearing its 10th birthday (on March 15th). It was founded to give new Capsuleers a jump start.

The University doesn't care what their students do after they leave. They can become pirates, traders or even politicians. It is totally up to the student. The University is striving to provide the best education possible. Since YC 115 every capsuleer can take part in classes without even being a student!
Fast forward to YC 116. Times have changed. Thanks to the fact that you can now pay CONCORD to repair your Security Status has made things quite different in Low Sec.

In the beginning the University was NRDS in Low- and Null Security Space. After some years the leadership of the University has changed its stance in Null to NBSI, mainly because nearly everyone did it. The students had to wait to be shot at to retaliate which led to losses that could have been avoided.
Same is now happening in Low Sec. We can... no, we WILL not allow that our students are at a disadvantage.

If the Empires or their Militias had taken care of Low Security Space and retaliated against the pirates and provide safe passage for everyone venturing through, it would not have come to this.
We do not differenciate between Gallente, Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar or Pirate. Everyone neutral or below is considered a threat to our students from March 15th on for the duration of a month.

Be aware that this is just a test run. We do not want to become pirates. We do not want to camp all the star gates in Low Sec. We will not take ransoms or take part in any war.


The University has a open Non-Aggression-Pact-Policy. Everyone is free to contact our diplomats to ask for positive standings. We always grant the standing.
Or you don't do it. if you fail to fight against a bunch of unexperienced Capsuleers maybe you don't deserve to sit in your ship.

Bairfhionn Isu
Director of Education

Summary: -History lesson
-engage in politics or learn to fight

Bout right?

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#27 - 2014-02-12 20:49:24 UTC
Bairfhionn Isu wrote:
We do not differenciate between Gallente, Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar or Pirate. Everyone neutral or below is considered a threat

This attitude is common and to be expected, and respected, by any pilot who frequents low-security space.

However it seems the only ones complaining are the frogs.

Go figure.

*Rubs her eyes and makes a poutey face*

I salute you and your courageous students for eliciting the Federation's upset, ma'am.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#28 - 2014-02-12 20:59:22 UTC
Considering specific details of the engagement are not public knowledge, it is not yet safe to assume they breached their RoE or initiated their campaign earlier than mentioned. It's entirely possible that either a) the pilots initially attacked were considered criminal by CONCORD (ie. -5 security) therefore maintaining their previous RoE, or b) the neutral pilots engaged first.

With that said, I support this move on their part and truly believe this fiasco could've been avoided had the FDU pilots without mutual standings used common sense. Too many unrealistic assumptions were made here on the FDU's part.

-Eran
Sofia Roseburn
Verdant Inquiries
#29 - 2014-02-12 21:04:24 UTC
At this stage both parties representatives have made their respective statements and the Eve University has not decided to refute the turn of events as described by Soter. As such, it is perfectly reasonable to question the engagement circumstances, or do we have to catch someone saying "oh yeah, I shot them for the hell of it" before you're willing to take an objective look at the situation?
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#30 - 2014-02-12 21:10:48 UTC
I am being objective. I'm not going to make baseless assumptions though. That would be the opposite of objectivity, no?

Nowhere does the original statement claim that EVE-Uni fired first, or that the pilots involved weren't marked as criminals. I suggest you re-read it.

-Eran
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#31 - 2014-02-12 21:12:28 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
Bairfhionn Isu wrote:
We do not differenciate between Gallente, Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar or Pirate. Everyone neutral or below is considered a threat

This attitude is common and to be expected, and respected, by any pilot who frequents low-security space.

However it seems the only ones complaining are the frogs.

Go figure.

*Rubs her eyes and makes a poutey face*

I salute you and your courageous students for eliciting the Federation's upset, ma'am.

Think the federation would kick me out for not giving a damn about who gets shot at by whom in low/null?

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Azmodeus Valar
EVE University
Ivy League
#32 - 2014-02-12 21:15:11 UTC
I would like to reiterate that EVE University is a neutral party, with no affiliation to either the Caldari or Gallente governments. However, when segments of their militia have a history of unprovoked aggression, we have no choice but to allow our students the latitude they need to operate in what seems to be such lawless territory.

Any group, no matter their factional affiliation, is able to request blue status with us. We will not attack those individuals, but will defend ourselves if attacked. If they operate in fleets with other groups, complications may occur. We will do what is needed to maintain the safety of our pilots against those sections of their fleet that have not expressed a desire to peacefully coexist with us.

CEO of Eve University
Sofia Roseburn
Verdant Inquiries
#33 - 2014-02-12 21:20:53 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
I am being objective. I'm not going to make baseless assumptions though. That would be the opposite of objectivity, no?

Nowhere does the original statement claim that EVE-Uni fired first, or that the pilots involved weren't marked as criminals. I suggest you re-read it.

-Eran


I understand it may be strenuous for you to stop concentrating on breathing for a short time to allow you to actually look at the engagement data, but if you want to stand a chance of coming across as something other than a opinionated ******** it's really worth a look. As a hint, you can find names of the pilots involved there and run the relevant database checks yourself to roughly ascertain how much "piracy" is really going on.

Oh sure, it's not 100% accurate, but it's enough for a baseline.
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#34 - 2014-02-12 21:21:51 UTC
Bairfhionn Isu wrote:

The University has a open Non-Aggression-Pact-Policy. Everyone is free to contact our diplomats to ask for positive standings. We always grant the standing.

Bairfhionn Isu
Director of Education



Sounds like this "problem" is easily rectified by a simple request. Or perhaps the OP is more interested in stirring up matters and tarnishing an institution of higher learning.
Sofia Roseburn
Verdant Inquiries
#35 - 2014-02-12 21:23:01 UTC
Azmodeus Valar wrote:
I would like to reiterate that EVE University is a neutral party, with no affiliation to either the Caldari or Gallente governments. However, when segments of their militia have a history of unprovoked aggression, we have no choice but to allow our students the latitude they need to operate in what seems to be such lawless territory.

Any group, no matter their factional affiliation, is able to request blue status with us. We will not attack those individuals, but will defend ourselves if attacked. If they operate in fleets with other groups, complications may occur. We will do what is needed to maintain the safety of our pilots against those sections of their fleet that have not expressed a desire to peacefully coexist with us.


That's a very awkward way of saying "we've got no control over our students".

Quite simply, two questions:

1) Do you agree with Soter's description of what took place?

2) Do you, or do you not condone the actions taken in the engagement against GMVA based on the aforementioned turn of events?
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#36 - 2014-02-12 21:41:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Eran Mintor
Sofia Roseburn wrote:
Eran Mintor wrote:
I am being objective. I'm not going to make baseless assumptions though. That would be the opposite of objectivity, no?

Nowhere does the original statement claim that EVE-Uni fired first, or that the pilots involved weren't marked as criminals. I suggest you re-read it.

-Eran


I understand it may be strenuous for you to stop concentrating on breathing for a short time to allow you to actually look at the engagement data, but if you want to stand a chance of coming across as something other than a opinionated ******** it's really worth a look. As a hint, you can find names of the pilots involved there and run the relevant database checks yourself to roughly ascertain how much "piracy" is really going on.

Oh sure, it's not 100% accurate, but it's enough for a baseline.


If you upset a toaster, does it short-circuit?

Yes I am opinionated. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm an opinionated cluster of stars, though...but whatever. You did a lot of research. I should compliment you on that, but unfortunately you still make assumptions when unnecessary, thus negating your conclusion.

I'm all for asking questions, and a full battle report would paint a better picture of what actually occured. Despite neither side explaining the full circumstances behind the engagement, you seem to have your mind made up. Strange how you speak about objectivity when you keep using your personal opinions and assumptions of what took place. Objectivity should be a redeeming quality of Nation, I'd think.

So far all that's been stated for a fact is that there was an engagement between EVE-Uni and a mixed FDU force. Some in the FDU sought standings and some did not, leading to confusion when fighting broke out. Nowhere is it explained why the engagement began. Sure, it could've been because EVE-Uni got trigger happy just as much as it could have been because they engaged a criminal on gate who happened to be FDU.

A void in the information provided does not necessitate you fill it with your personal opinion of what might have happened.

I have some respect for TSF because they have some intelligent members. Sadly I do not count you as one of them.

-Eran
Azmodeus Valar
EVE University
Ivy League
#37 - 2014-02-12 21:41:53 UTC
Sofia Roseburn wrote:
Azmodeus Valar wrote:
I would like to reiterate that EVE University is a neutral party, with no affiliation to either the Caldari or Gallente governments. However, when segments of their militia have a history of unprovoked aggression, we have no choice but to allow our students the latitude they need to operate in what seems to be such lawless territory.

Any group, no matter their factional affiliation, is able to request blue status with us. We will not attack those individuals, but will defend ourselves if attacked. If they operate in fleets with other groups, complications may occur. We will do what is needed to maintain the safety of our pilots against those sections of their fleet that have not expressed a desire to peacefully coexist with us.


That's a very awkward way of saying "we've got no control over our students".

Quite simply, two questions:

1) Do you agree with Soter's description of what took place?

2) Do you, or do you not condone the actions taken in the engagement against GMVA based on the aforementioned turn of events?

At no point have we stated that we don't have control over our students. We have stated that when groups have a history of aggression, it is only sensible to allow our pilots the ability to start a fight on their own terms. Is it your position that pilots in Federation Space can not defend themselves, and that at times the best defensive move is to initiate aggression when the battlefield favors your side? For most of our history, we have limited ourselves to attacking those who have proven themselves to be criminal or had a history of aggression. However, this can cause problems as neutral entities will maneuver into perfect positioning before aggressing. We are attempting an experiment to see if allowing students first strike capability against those groups that have not expressed a desire for positive standings will allow our students to have a better experience.

We agree that a fight occurred, during which several ships that had no diplomatic agreement with us were destroyed. We had negotiated an agreement with Villore and did not believe that Villore was authorized to negotiate for the entire Federation. Is that mistaken? If Villore can speak for every organization associated with the Federation, that would change the situation.

Overall, it was a misfortunate encounter that can sometimes be caused by the fog of war.

Once again, if any entity wishes to have blue status, we will quickly agree.

CEO of Eve University
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#38 - 2014-02-12 21:42:47 UTC
Sofia Roseburn wrote:
Azmodeus Valar wrote:
I would like to reiterate that EVE University is a neutral party, with no affiliation to either the Caldari or Gallente governments. However, when segments of their militia have a history of unprovoked aggression, we have no choice but to allow our students the latitude they need to operate in what seems to be such lawless territory.

Any group, no matter their factional affiliation, is able to request blue status with us. We will not attack those individuals, but will defend ourselves if attacked. If they operate in fleets with other groups, complications may occur. We will do what is needed to maintain the safety of our pilots against those sections of their fleet that have not expressed a desire to peacefully coexist with us.


That's a very awkward way of saying "we've got no control over our students".

Quite simply, two questions:

1) Do you agree with Soter's description of what took place?

2) Do you, or do you not condone the actions taken in the engagement against GMVA based on the aforementioned turn of events?


Actually what she said is "if you want blues you can have them and we won't shoot you, but you have to request them first and not simply assume it will be."

-Eran
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#39 - 2014-02-12 21:56:43 UTC
Isn't it an unwritten rule of low/null that if it moves kill it before it kills you?

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#40 - 2014-02-12 22:01:11 UTC
Azmodeus Valar wrote:
Sofia Roseburn wrote:
Azmodeus Valar wrote:
I would like to reiterate that EVE University is a neutral party, with no affiliation to either the Caldari or Gallente governments. However, when segments of their militia have a history of unprovoked aggression, we have no choice but to allow our students the latitude they need to operate in what seems to be such lawless territory.

Any group, no matter their factional affiliation, is able to request blue status with us. We will not attack those individuals, but will defend ourselves if attacked. If they operate in fleets with other groups, complications may occur. We will do what is needed to maintain the safety of our pilots against those sections of their fleet that have not expressed a desire to peacefully coexist with us.


That's a very awkward way of saying "we've got no control over our students".

Quite simply, two questions:

1) Do you agree with Soter's description of what took place?

2) Do you, or do you not condone the actions taken in the engagement against GMVA based on the aforementioned turn of events?

At no point have we stated that we don't have control over our students. We have stated that when groups have a history of aggression, it is only sensible to allow our pilots the ability to start a fight on their own terms. Is it your position that pilots in Federation Space can not defend themselves, and that at times the best defensive move is to initiate aggression when the battlefield favors your side? For most of our history, we have limited ourselves to attacking those who have proven themselves to be criminal or had a history of aggression. However, this can cause problems as neutral entities will maneuver into perfect positioning before aggressing. We are attempting an experiment to see if allowing students first strike capability against those groups that have not expressed a desire for positive standings will allow our students to have a better experience.

We agree that a fight occurred, during which several ships that had no diplomatic agreement with us were destroyed. We had negotiated an agreement with Villore and did not believe that Villore was authorized to negotiate for the entire Federation. Is that mistaken? If Villore can speak for every organization associated with the Federation, that would change the situation.

Overall, it was a misfortunate encounter that can sometimes be caused by the fog of war.

Once again, if any entity wishes to have blue status, we will quickly agree.

Now, to be clear, were these Villore Accords ships, or just random militia? And if the former, were they allied (blue status) at the time the combat took place?

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117